Just starting Co Parenting

[KaishaMikasa]

My wife and I just split at the beginning of November.  Originally she just wanted to have the kids every other weekend now she has changed her mind. This could be due to loneliness, wanting to screw with me or she found out she would be paying child support.  Anyway this week I was on a business trip so she had them for 3 nights.  The first night she took them to her favorite bar! To convince them that it is not a bad place as her bar hopping while I was out before helped cause the divorce. The second night she left them so she could go out with a friend to another bar. On the third night she did cook for them but was also getting on the 11'yr old for everything according to my 16 yr old.  She now wants to have 50% custody and I am not interested in that at all as I don't think it is good for my youngest.  Did anyone else have them just give up the kids then change their mind and did they ever change it back?

[Turkish]

Is there a custody order in place, or in process?

Document this, even if in a journal. It can help later if there is a dispute, which is where it sounds like this is going.

[KaishaMikasa]

Where I live we have parenting plans and there is not one in place yet.  In fact, that is where the trouble started. She sent me one but sent her lawyer another. We have to start with mediation and if we can't agree we will then proceed to family court.  I am documenting everything but they could still give her 50% custody which even the kids don't want. 

[Turkish]

Do you have a L, preferably one who's experienced with HCPs? (High conflict personalities)

Takng the kds to a brew pub where they also serve food is one thing. Taking them to a bar which prohibits anybody under 21 is another, not only breaking the law, but child endangerment, perhaps. If your kids are daughters, even more worrisome.

CPS agencies usually have an anonymous hot line. It might be worth it to run this by them (from an untracable number).

[KaishaMikasa]

I did serve food but describes itself as a bar abd dance club.  I have been there and it is not for kids I will check on the hotline.  Tonight though she just raised the bar.  I have the kids tonight and she was supposed to be at a pub crawl. She text me just after 7:30 pm and asked what we are doing?  I told her watching a movie asked if she was home.  She said no she was at the house next door which is for sale and empty.  I went over to see what was going on and didn't realize she was in her car.  When I turned around she started the car and took off.  I tried to stop her and then text her out of concern.  She told me she doesn't want pity and that it is BS that I have "everything".  She then text me that she "was still here just not there".  I had the police do a wellness check.  They got her on the phone but she would not meet with them.  She is now pissed as hell that I called the cops but what does she expect.  She is trying for 50% custody after telling me and the kids she only wanted them every other weekend.  My guess is that she is lonely, wants to hurt me and wants to avoid paying child support.

[Turkish]

Do you feel that the kids are safe with her? You're understandably concerned for the mt her of your children. It's hard trying to seperate the legal aspects regarding custody and kepping your kds safe, with concern for her, or how her dysregulating behavior affects all of you. She's being irrespnsible regarding your children.

Taking them to the bar/club may be irresponsible. However, it sounds like she may escalate. The kids are with you, amd safe. Are you all safe in your home? When s she supposed to get the kids next?

[KaishaMikasa]

We are safe in our home but the bad news is she gets them tomorrow.  I have a 17 yr old son who can drive and plans in place in case things get bad.  Both boys have phones and will call the police and it leave if need be.  It still is concerning but if I keep them from going it could become parental alienation and the court could award full custody to her. 

[Turkish]

It sounds like you are doing the right things. Short of letting them go into immediate danger (the bar may not be proper, but it doesn't sound like they are in danger). S17 is almost an adult and it soounds like you can trust him to oversee things.

[david]

Get a report from the police about the wellness check.

Document everything else that is going on too.

IF you don't have a lawyer then talk to a bunch. This accomplishes two things. One, you get a feel for how the system works in your area and what you need to be doing. Two, they can not represent your ex if you talked to them.

A big mistake I made was trying to be fair. It took me two weeks in jail from a false allegation before I realized I had to play by the rules of the game and not by what I thought the rules should be. I turned my focus on our kids and stopped trying to reason with my ex.

[KaishaMikasa]

Ok so here is an update since the first bar trip.  There was second bar trip that ended with my oldest son getting up and walking out.  I saw hom at home where we talked and I coached him on how to talk to his mother.  I then called her and told her listen to him and don't try to defend herself because it is invalidating and screwing up her relationship with her son. My The next day she text me and of course by the end of a very long text train it was my fault and she was going to explain to him why it was ok for him to be there. My sons had a music recital the that day and she was beside herself that our familys are not sitting together. So that is the light stuff so now on to the good stuff.  I went out of town for three days for a business trip and it was schedule to coincide with her three days.  While I was there she sent my oldest son to my house to pick up our business checkbook to pay a contractor repairing one of our properties. Fun fact this contractor is the neighbor of one of the two guys she met in bars that ended the marriage but I digress.  He brought her the checkbook but it was out of checks.  She went off on him and really upset him. He went back to the house and after he text me I called him and he found the checks but lost the checkbook and locked his keys in car.  She had him so upset he was very confused.  I told him there was another key in the house he could get and he told me his mom was bringing a key.  By the way she is not on the car title and should not have a key. Here is where this gets interesting.  She text me and said that I should not put him in the middle of our business.  Mind you I am out of town and she was only one yelling at him or putting him in the business.  I text her back and I said I agree you should not put him in the middle.  The next text I got was her asking me if she could give our son a Xanax because he was upset!  I told her absolutely not! The next day she kept trying differjet excuses to get into the house. Mind you she has always hated being told she can't do something. After three different excuses I told her to stop looking for reasons to go into my home.  That day my son texts me and asks if his mom has every abused his ADHD medication. When she left I found three bottles of adderal she had hidden in the cabinet which I disposed of as he does not use it any longer. She text me and said her doctor has not refilled her narcolepsy drug and want to know if I still had the adderal. I told her I tossed it.  

That night I start getting text messages from my son that his mother is raging and he may need to leave. She told him that he betrayed her again by telling me about her request for meds.  Additionally, she got my response to her 50% parenting plan. She was so mad that she made three charts one on week to week, one on my plan and one with her just having every other weekend like she had originally told me she wanted. She told the boys they had to choose and both said just every other weekend!  The next day I was going home at night and she was suppose to keep them.  I got off the plane late and got text messages from her and my older son saying the boys were at my house with her permission.  Come to find out that even though she had off those three days she was just ending the kids to my house all day. That night my oldest son revolted and said he was not staying. She asked my 11 yr old what he wanted to do and he said he did not want to stay with her either. So she sent them both home without me being there to stay the night!  Earlier that day she text and asks if she could get in the house?  I told her no and she went in anyway and forced my oldest son to hold her hand. She was in such a rage my so text me and asked "why is she is always mad at me?".  

I have a call with my lawyer tomorrow and mediation on the 13th but honestly I don't feel like negotiating with her i feel like I should be able to file for full custody at this point. She has been less annoying now that she is back on with her boyfriend who is a major downgrade by the way.  :)oes anyone else's PWBPD just hate any limits or rules?  Also has anyone else had to deal with a mom who is wanting custody because sh "misses them" then is stupid enough to text all of her bad behaviors.  I keep wondering if she is trying to lose custody to cry victim or of she is just that out of touch with reality.

[david]

"I keep wondering if she is trying to lose custody... ." I used to wonder the exact same things. I came to the conclusion that it is a mixture of all of them and possibly some other things too.

Document, document, document.

I went to court once with a stack of papers around 6 inches tall as evidence. The top sheet summarized the pile below. The judge had no desire to go through each and every piece of information. He gave it all to my ex and asked her whether she agreed with the summary. I figured she would never go through it all and she agreed to the summary. It was agreed by all that the single piece of paper would be introduced as evidence. I had learned that evidence has more weight than verbal testimony in court. It must be introduced as evidence. There is a procedure for that and it is tagged, numbered, etc. You need three copies too.

I also learned to never let my ex know what I am doing until we are in front of the judge.

The legal system is a "game" with a set of rules. Figure out what you think is the best outcome for the kids and use the rules to get you to that point.

If their mom ever gets better you will know and you can change what the court ordered at that time. All custody orders can be changed if both parents agree. I have agreed to minor changes in our order but I am very cautious about it since my ex shows no signs of getting better. The changes are all in an email and I make sure I write that this is a one time change.

[iron pigeon]

From what I hear, "status quo" has considerable weight.   "Status Quo" means current status, or the way things are being done now.   Basically how things were done in the past establishes precedent for how the should be done going forward.   

So, are you guys following some mutually agreed to schedule?    You need to document exactly all the time she has the kids and all the time you have the kids.   What percentage is that?   Then just tell the your Lawyer this is what your kids are used to and you think it is in their best interest not to change it.

It sounds like she might not be able to handle more time than she currently has.   If she wants more time and the mediator or judge is receptive to it, put conditions on it.   Drug test, stable employment, counseling, whatever.

They may listen to what your older children want.   Particularly if they don't want to be with her any more than they currently are.   They don't always listen to the kids.   It's about what is in their best interest, not what they say they want.   But if she is the one asking for a change that they don't want, I think that's a pretty strong position for you.

The key thing is to be able to prove that 50/50 would be a change.   So, if you add up the time spent with each parent since separation, what is the current percentage?   I have assumed you have more than half the time now.  Making very graphical chart or calendar of what days each of you has had the children could be valuable.   Comparing it to the 3 charts she made would make it graphically obvious which one of you is asking for a change from what the children are currently used to.   If on top of that the kids don't want that change, she's going to need a pretty strong argument as to why it is in there best interest for there to be change.   If she is able to make a strong best interest argument for more time, you fall back on it being in the children's best interest for there to be conditions that have to be met before she gets that additional time (a step-up-plan).

Whatever you do, don't use the reasoning I gave above to argue with her.  She may then immediately want to currently have 50/50.   You need to talk to your attorney and figure out what evidence to be gathering to protect the best interest of your children.   Speaking of which... .

I'm not an attorney.   This isn't legal advice.  It's just opinion.   Think of it as something you read somewhere on the internet.