PPO threats vs. reality

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Hi all,

Has anyone's BPD ex used the legal system to harass them by filing for PPOs?  I have not stalked my ex, objectively speaking, but he claims I am a stalker to anyone who will listen, and has threatened to file.  So,

-Has anyone's ex filed and been denied a PPO?

-Has anyone's ex been granted a PPO because of something like perjury?

Any stories appreciated.  If you're willing, I'd be curious to know what jurisdiction you live in.

[GreenEyedMonster]

Hi all,

Has anyone's BPD ex used the legal system to harass them by filing for PPOs?  I have not stalked my ex, objectively speaking, but he claims I am a stalker to anyone who will listen, and has threatened to file.  So,

-Has anyone's ex filed and been denied a PPO?

-Has anyone's ex been granted a PPO because of something like perjury?

Any stories appreciated.  If you're willing, I'd be curious to know what jurisdiction you live in.

[JRT]

My ex moved out and blocked me only three weeks after moving in without warning of any kind. She did this while I was away on business... .I drove back to the hotel and attempted to call her from there... .she hung up as soon as she heard my voice. A week later, I went out of town again and tried to call her from my hotel with the same result. On my return, there was a letter from a law firm her son briefly worked for threatening a PPO against me for stalking and harassment!

I left her alone for three months or so and tired to call her from a hotel on yet another trip on Xmas. An hour later, a very angry cop called me and insisted that I was harassing my ex!

Again, I left her alone until July of last year where I sent her a text (I was briefly unblocked, long story) ('I wish it could have ended differently', etc. It was a very nice text). Again, I received a letter from a new attorney threatening a PPO once more. I figured that she would have mellowed out a bit but clearly had not by this point. Given that she wasn't even close to having a conversation and close things out, I figured that I would never recover my property from her including my engagement ring. The only solution was to file a small claims case to recover... .so I did. 

When the summons was served, she went to the cops again! She insisted that the summons constituted contact and since I contacted her, it constituted harassment. THe amazing thing is that the cops went along with it and called me again! ! She is VERY demure and plays the victim very convincingly. I believed her victim-hood by her 'oppressive' past partners, she did the same with the cops.

Later, she convinced the lawyer (a young guy who works for a firm that represents her company, he later gets fired for doing this) to have the case moved out of small claims and into general court for a full trial to avoid having her deal with me directly (or see me which is what I suspect was her biggest concern). Good thing I have a lawyer buddy who agreed to represent me for free and fight her.

In August, from out of nowhere, I got ANOTHER call from the cops out of nowhere claiming that I was stalking her! This was not in response to ANY activity on my part, she must have disregulated or some such thing, I'm not sure. This time I laid into the cop and told him if I got another phone call from them, that I was going to file a claim against THEM and HER. The cop took this very seriously and backed down quite a bit.

The lawyer wanted to use his knowledge of the system to win against me (he was a construction industry lawyer) but because I got mine involved, he lost. Ultimately, the new lawyer/owner of the firm, realized the ridiculousness of the case and instructed her to take out her checkbook and pay me. That was 2 weeks ago, almost a year and half since she disappeared!

She immediately unfriended everyone who she had met through me and convinced every single one other family and friends to either block or unfriend me on social media. But, I serendipitously met (and briefly dated) a cousin of hers who told me that the reason she has been broadcasting that she broke up with me was that I was a 'controlling stalker' and told one other friend that she ran into that I was a 'narcissist' (both of which I can assure you are not true. This was a knee slapper to the few people that I have told).

Manipulation of the legal system including the police and courts by jilted lovers is nothing new. However, pwBPD according to my reading and observation seem to employ it as a weapon of choice where others weapons fail for them. The nature of the legal system is such that law enforcement must take such requests seriously and follow up on them. In my case, neither was there any incidence of physical abuse in our relationship nor in my past for her to base her allegations upon; a PPO is most enforceable when there was violence present or there has been a threat of violence. Unfortunately, many people ESPECIALLY pwBPD are using it as a childish method to say, 'leave me alone' and/or not be held culpable for their actions. Ironically, some stalkers (mine has been stalking ME and some of my friends! Ain't that special?) use PPO's as a tool to insulate themselves from the legal impact of their own activities! A threat to have a PPO filed against you is something to take seriously but if there was not violence or threats, in the final analysis, you should be ok. Ditto if you get a letter like I got from a lawyer: it was completely meaningless and free of any serious impact. Geez: both of them didn't even send them certified! That told me that they weren't very serious. 

Its funny though in my case: I am not convinced that my ex pwPD went to the cops to see the complaint through. My sixth sense tells she did it for some other reason I will likely never know.

[ForeverDad]

One of the biggest factors is whether custody and parenting is being contested.  (Or something similar such as a business relationship of some sort.)  If the parties can just 'walk away' then conflict should not be prolonged.  Sharing a child makes the conflict that much more complicated and prolonged.

When a relationship fails — for us, implodes — both are hurt but the acting-out disordered person is prone to seek retaliation, having blacklisted the other in his/her perceptions.  After all, they reason all failed relationships must be the other person's fault.  That's the blaming or blame shifting aspect.  Projection is also common, claiming the poor behaviors they had were instead done by the other.

If children are involved, then it is especially difficult.  Often the targeted parent can point to some poor behaviors, both adult behaviors as well as parenting behaviors and so the disordered parent is very likely to strike out in every way available, trying to make the other parent look worse.  Hence, PPOs are handy weapons, especially for women since such laws are predisposed to consider women as the more likely victims.  Why else would the laws, for example, in USA be "Violence Against Women Act"?  Why can't it be "Violence Against Domestic Partners"?  Or "People"?  Sadly, the reality is that Aggressors are not always men nor are the Targets always women.

Credibility is a real factor.  At first every claim is taken virtually as gospel but over time the disordered person's claims lose some credibility, especially if they continue to be 'unsubstantiated'.  They're still investigated aggressively, after all there may be a grain of truth there, but over time the sense of urgency and immediacy fade and the professionals are less supportive of the repeated allegations.

If someone faces a PPO, it would be wise to search for prior legal allegations against former relationships.  If there is a history there, then it may be helpful to support a claim that the person is misusing the system to punish the other for the failed relationship.

In my case, neither of us had a history with the police or courts.  But once we separated I faced repeated allegations in the next few years.  Since our first legal interactions were when I got my ex charged with Threat of DV, she didn't try DV claims against me.  Yes, about 5 years later when I sought and obtained a Change of Circumstances determination when seeking custody, she claimed I had committed DV years before.  It was referenced in that decision but no one asked me to respond to that claim, her credibility in some of her other testimony was declared "not credible", strong words for courts that try to make every decision as passive sounding as possible.  In a way, her post-separation allegations were eventually perceived as 'sour grapes'.

She basically ignored the adult behavior allegations and instead chose to make allegations of poor parenting behaviors which gets much more attention by courts and agencies.  While a lot of poor parenting behaviors are not seen as actionable, there is nothing to stop a parent from making vicious allegations, however unsupported, of 'substantive' child abuse, neglect or endangerment.  I faced a number of those.  From the start, the CPS rep stood up and said they had "no concerns" with me.  That just impelled her make more extreme child abuse allegations against me, ones that if true would send me to prison.  Allegations to court, CPS, child therapist, police, hospital ER, etc.  Those too were weathered, investigated and eventually closed as unsubstantiated.

This is not to say it wasn't scary, especially at first.  Those were the worst years of my life.  However, I had to be a parent of my child and that meant eventually overcoming her obstructions, namely, repeated allegations and delays.  Now, pardon the comparison, it's more like the barking of a fenced toothless dog.

So just muddle along the best you can and you'll get through it all.  Defend yourself well, protect yourself well, be squeaky clean in the eyes of the professionals, be sure nothing you do can be easily twisted into supporting the other's allegations, be proactive and not passive.  As has been noted here before... .  The one behaving poorly seldom gets consequences and the one behaving well seldom gets credit.

[JRT]

HI FD

Thanks for that post... .and from one Dad to another, I am really sorry that you had to endure that. The very thought of not participating in my daughters life would have been a crushing thing to consider to say the least. It sounds like you prevailed and that life went on overall and as a dad.

I'm curious: did the finding of the court regarding your ex's allegations ultimately stop her behavior? Or are these maneuvers or the threat of them that she still exacts or threats you with?

[Thunderstruck]

My DH's uBPDx has filed three restraining orders against DH.

One was on my birthday. She expected them to come arrest him and ruin my birthday. When it didn't happen, she withdrew the motion the next business day. We didn't even find out about it until several months later.

Then one day uBPDbm left SD(then 8) home alone. SD was upset and didn't want to be home alone. DH went to uBPDbm's house (with a cop) to check on her. uBPDbm blew the whole thing up.

She tried filing a restraining order on DH, but the judge immediately denied it because she wasn't even there.

Then she filed again in SDs name. We went to court for that one, and before ANYONE got to speak our L said "Hey judge, her claims don't fall under our state's statute for harassment" so the judge had to dismiss it.

We used these to show the CE that uBPDbm is filing false claims in court to harass us and block our parenting.

Oh and... .in one of our custody hearings uBPDbm claimed that she was being harassed by DH on Our Family Wizard and he was sending her hundreds of messages (in the course of several months) and that was why she refused to log on and read them. The judge didn't buy that. She ordered that uBPDbm be required to read and respond to messages daily.

Look up your state's statute for harassment. In my state there has to be a threat for it to be actionable. Believe me, when DH and I first started dating uBPDbm would call me 80+ times a day but since there was no threat there was little I could do.

[ForeverDad]

I'm curious: did the finding of the court regarding your ex's allegations ultimately stop her behavior? Or are these maneuvers or the threat of them that she still exacts or threats you with?

My ex is still entitled but it was curtailed when I finally got custody AND majority time in early 2014.  That 'AND' requires an explanation.  In 2008 I exited divorce with Shared Parenting and equal time on a 2/2/5/5 schedule.  Didn't work, so the next year I sought custody and majority time.  In 2011 I got custody only, we settled for the GAL's terms and GAL figured all would be better if Ex could still have access to child support.  Of course, her entitlement wasn't curbed.  I went back in 2012 seeking majority time.  Court raked her over the coals for 'disparagement of father in the presence of the child' and also behaviors with school and its activities.  But I only got majority time during the school year, but her entitlement balloon deflated a bit.  Since she still had equal time for 11 weeks during the summer with the 2/2/5/5 schedule, I wanted to object to the decision to get fewer exchanges such as alternate weeks then.  My lawyer asked me, "Why would you want the court to think that you're okay with son having longer periods of time with her?"  Good point.

The sad part is it took over 8 years of conflict from separation in late 2005 (where court started me with alternate weekends) to the last decision at the end of 2013 before we got an order that worked.  We entered the system when he was 3, he was 11 when the last order was made.  His most formative years and my parenting and even my health were so impacted.

As for her allegations, they were fast and furious at the beginning.  Court and all agencies weren't fazed by her assorted allegations.  It was almost as though their position was, "yes, unsubstantiated, but maybe the next one might have a grain of truth".  Some allegations weren't even told me.  I later saw them noted in ER reports, therapist notes, etc.  Once, just weeks after I had filed for divorce, I got a call from CPS notifying me they had received an allegation and were closing it.  I asked, "What allegation?"  The response, "We're closing it, that's all we will tell you."  What a Black Box.

Over time her allegations became more like harassment but my lawyer said there was nothing much to be done about it.  A person is allowed his/her day in court or with the agencies.  But also true is that over time the professionals got to see the real long term picture and so the risks to me were reduced over time.  The past couple years she has threatened court when triggered but nothing has come of it.  Every once in a great while she will be in a good mood and talk a long time on the phone saying whatever she desired to chat about as though the past decade of conflict never happened.

Now that son is older, he'll talk a little about life with his mother, but she is his mother after all.  Recently he's told me a few times she's always hated me.  I'm still blacklisted, that Black OR White thinking.  She blocked my email address the day the police came for her and we thereafter separated.  Over ten years later, my email account is still blocked.

[JRT]

I'm curious: did the finding of the court regarding your ex's allegations ultimately stop her behavior? Or are these maneuvers or the threat of them that she still exacts or threats you with?

My ex is still entitled but it was curtailed when I finally got custody AND majority time in early 2014.  That 'AND' requires an explanation.  In 2008 I exited divorce with Shared Parenting and equal time on a 2/2/5/5 schedule.  Didn't work, so the next year I sought custody and majority time.  In 2011 I got custody only, we settled for the GAL's terms and GAL figured all would be better if Ex could still have access to child support.  Of course, her entitlement wasn't curbed.  I went back in 2012 seeking majority time.  Court raked her over the coals for 'disparagement of father in the presence of the child' and also behaviors with school and its activities.  But I only got majority time during the school year, but her entitlement balloon deflated a bit.  Since she still had equal time for 11 weeks during the summer with the 2/2/5/5 schedule, I wanted to object to the decision to get fewer exchanges such as alternate weeks then.  My lawyer asked me, "Why would you want the court to think that you're okay with son having longer periods of time with her?"  Good point.

The sad part is it took over 8 years of conflict from separation in late 2005 (where court started me with alternate weekends) to the last decision at the end of 2013 before we got an order that worked.  We entered the system when he was 3, he was 11 when the last order was made.  His most formative years and my parenting and even my health were so impacted.

As for her allegations, they were fast and furious at the beginning.  Court and all agencies weren't fazed by her assorted allegations.  It was almost as though their position was, "yes, unsubstantiated, but maybe the next one might have a grain of truth".  Some allegations weren't even told me.  I later saw them noted in ER reports, therapist notes, etc.  Once, just weeks after I had filed for divorce, I got a call from CPS notifying me they had received an allegation and were closing it.  I asked, "What allegation?"  The response, "We're closing it, that's all we will tell you."  What a Black Box.

Over time her allegations became more like harassment but my lawyer said there was nothing much to be done about it.  A person is allowed his/her day in court or with the agencies.  But also true is that over time the professionals got to see the real long term picture and so the risks to me were reduced over time.  The past couple years she has threatened court when triggered but nothing has come of it.  Every once in a great while she will be in a good mood and talk a long time on the phone saying whatever she desired to chat about as though the past decade of conflict never happened.

Now that son is older, he'll talk a little about life with his mother, but she is his mother after all.  Recently he's told me a few times she's always hated me.  I'm still blacklisted, that Black OR White thinking.  She blocked my email address the day the police came for her and we thereafter separated.  Over ten years later, my email account is still blocked.

What an incredible story! I have a friend that has a similar one. This might be too personal a question so I understand if you would not wish to answer: have your children been negatively impacted by her maneuvers and behaviors?

[ForeverDad]

Impact:  Teen son is trying to lose himself in computer videos and games.  That concerns me.  As other parents have found out, taking the computer away doesn't work, the response is to say it's needed for schoolwork.  It does work for a day or two, then he relapses into putting off schoolwork again.

Impact:  I was hit hard too.  I haven't been parenting as well as I wanted.  I'd attend congregation and feel like there was an invisible barrier due to the relentless conflict during and after divorce.  Only in the last couple years have I been feeling better (emotionally and healthwise) and trying to get out of my cocoon.

I love the mountains.  We got great 2 week vacations in the Rockies (twice, CO,UT,NM,AZ) and Sierra Nevadas (once, CA).  He just isn't that enthused about mountains.  Maybe it was because he was younger.  Maybe because it was just with me.  Now that he's older I want to try for the Rockies again.  We missed last summer because I was ill and had to cancel.  I'll try again this summer.

[JRT]

Impact:  Teen son is trying to lose himself in computer videos and games.  That concerns me.  As other parents have found out, taking the computer away doesn't work, the response is to say it's needed for schoolwork.  It does work for a day or two, then he relapses into putting off schoolwork again.

Impact:  I was hit hard too.  I haven't been parenting as well as I wanted.  I'd attend congregation and feel like there was an invisible barrier due to the relentless conflict during and after divorce.  Only in the last couple years have I been feeling better (emotionally and healthwise) and trying to get out of my cocoon.

I love the mountains.  We got great 2 week vacations in the Rockies (twice, CO,UT,NM,AZ) and Sierra Nevadas (once, CA).  He just isn't that enthused about mountains.  Maybe it was because he was younger.  Maybe because it was just with me.  Now that he's older I want to try for the Rockies again.  We missed last summer because I was ill and had to cancel.  I'll try again this summer.

Sorry to hear that and I hope that it improves. My ex's son I think was a hyperbole of what happens when a borderline parents: video junkie. I'm talking he was in his room for days at a time. He was enrolled in a special high school for children at risk where they all but do the work for the student. He came close to failing that THEN she moved him into my school district and into another program where he didn't know if he was going to graduate until the day before commencements.

he took one class at community college (into to law enforcement) and dropped out. Meanwhile, over a 1 year period, he had been fired from about a dozen 'dishwasher' level jobs. He is HIGHLY ego centric and believes that ALL activities are for fun, even work (he very much reminded me of a 6 year old). He demanded that those around him abandon their work,  join in the game and laugh along with him as he attempted to manipulate his environment in an effort to amuse himself.  He was SO obnoxious that rather than even attempting to discuss improvements, most of these jobs never actually really fired him (for fear of litigation I suspect), they simply just stopped putting him on the schedule (usually attributing it to an oversight but never correcting the 'oversight'!). Mom had significant problems with him at home and did little else but rage against him... .its no wonder he wound up like he did.

Las I had heard he joined the Marines and will be going to basic training next week. I don't expect this to end well... .

[ForeverDad]

You may be surprised.  For some troubled people a regimented lifestyle works well.  Whether he learns from the experience is up to him.  On the other hand, they may let him go as others have done.

[JRT]

You may be surprised.  For some troubled people a regimented lifestyle works well.  Whether he learns from the experience is up to him.  On the other hand, they may let him go as others have done.

I thought so as well except that he does not accept authority at all, HE is authority. After 19 years of reinforcement, I don't see that as changing anytime soon... .though I hope that he surprises everyone.