His emotional immaturity is really annoying me

[unicorn2014]

This morning I woke up to this email from my partner:

Hi

I am going to shut down today. Right now things are unbearable.

Had a really bad night with no prospects of things changing today.

This wasn't about us, he's having banking problems, computer problems, doesn't have time to listen to the rest of his voicemail to see if his lawyer called about his divorce.

I feel like he's trying to pull me into the rescuer role and I refuse to step into it.

I don't even know how to respond to an email like that.

I haven't checked my text messages because I don't want him to see me read it and then ask why I didn't respond.

Keep in mind I've already been through two suicide attempts with this man, one I reported to his wife, the other I reported to the police.

I have no sympathy for him. He did this to himself. In my opinion he did not think through the ending of his marriage, jumped into a relationship prematurely with me.

I know I can validate him and say "I'm sorry things are so hard right now" which is what I did when he sent me a whole big long list of all the things going wrong last night. He and I aren't having problems, but I'm sick of his stuff.

See, here's the clincher, he doesn't think he needs therapy or DBT and he thinks his blood pressure medication is all he needs. So I listen to him and I think "wow this man needs therapy and a different kind of medication" but he thinks its all situational and as soon as he can change locations he'll be all better.

He tells me he's glad we're in a "sober relationship" yet he doesn't go to meetings and doesn't work a program, he just doesn't drink. I'm the one who works three different recovery programs.

Anyways, I'm frustrated, and telling him that is not going to accomplish anything so I figure somebody here will help me with this. I have faith in this board. 

[Turkish]

You could validate that he's going to shut down today, "ok, I'll be available tomorrow when you feel better," or something similar.

[unicorn2014]

Since writing this I called him like I said I would and after I told him if he hung up on me I was putting my phone in do not disturb mode and would call him tomorrow he told me he would not answer his phone tomorrow and would talk to me on Monday. He ended up hanging up on me. He's currently whining about violating his values to be in a relationship with me. I didn't make him have an affair with me, that was his own choice, if I had known he was married I would have run in the other direction.

I'm going to honor his request and not reach out to him tomorrow and will talk to him on Monday.

(I just got a very loud ST threat)

Quote

It is clear you do not want to be in a relationship with me

I was really delusional to think you did and I bet the farm on it and not I have the to deal with the consequences if believing a lie

Quote

I said

So we can encourage each other because be are focused on our own problems?

But I guess since you hung up on me the answer is no

Quote

I can see you really do not care at all... .If you did you would act differently.

My mistake believing you actually do.

I love you and invested a lot into this relationship. But I can see you really do not love me or you would not avoid or ignore me. This is a very painful lesson for me. I am foolish

Quote

ignoring and avoiding is rejection and abandonment

You have now done this

You have now nothing to offer me

You could maybe choice encouragement and building up and love

Instead you chosen a different path today.

I made you an offer and was reading out to you.

I love you very much and it hurts me when you treat me like this

Quote

If I am going to be continue being in a relationship with you I expect to be able to count on you. Being ignored and avoided is not how you show me you love and care about me. I see I can not count on you.

[Daniell85]

He sent you those texts after he basically told you he was not going to be available until Monday?

[unicorn2014]

He sent you those texts after he basically told you he was not going to be available until Monday?

Yes, and there's more:

Of you want to peace with me I will turn it back on

Ok, I'll be available tomorrow when you feel better.

(Those are my words, I followed the suggestion, and he thought I was being condescending!)

How considering

If you want to make peace with me and stop talking trash I will turn it back on

That would mean tonight

If I do not hear from you tonight o will know you are not serious

I checked my VM but do you think I am going to talk about my VM when you have been avoiding me. When you make peace with me I will trim back on location sharing and then and only then will be talking about other things

I also expect you to turn yours on tonight as well

To review

I expect you to make peace with me tonight and then as a good faith effort on both our parts we will turn on location sharing indefinitely    

I expect you to do this tonight if you do not I will know you are not serious

(that's my part)

In response to you're being shut down, to get us back on track:

That is not what that meant at all

I have reached full saturation and I can not take this any more. I have reached the end

There is no reset

I shut down so I did not do anything I regret

>would

I expect to hear from you tonight

###

That's also mine

I've never located you at church, the mall or the market .

No kidding you are asleep when I go

I expect to hear from you after your meeting

###

Wow, I just read those, he's crossed the line over into abusive. I can't even talk about him to my male friends in recovery because they will tell me to walk away. Tonight when I was sitting in my meeting I was thinking that this relationship is as bad as an addiction. In fact a sober male friend told me exactly that on the night my partner attempted suicide and I called it in.

He just called me on my landline and I said to him that he was basically telling me that he was going to withhold information from me, and then I told him since I wasn't arguing with him, there was no making peace, and then he kept asking me over and over if I was peaceful person or not so I hung up on him, unplugged my landline and put my iPhone in do not disturb mode.

Earlier tonight before my meeting I really got it that's he a mentally ill person.

I think tonight I have to be willing to let go, to lose the relationship to maintain my emotional sobriety. I know my relationship is not befitting of me.

He is most definitely withholding information from me.

That's very upsetting to me.

I also found these messages on Facebook:

Yo letting me down today dear

You ignored and avoided me

You refused to make peace with me

what I am I supposed to think

Instead of making peace you blow me off

and

To review

I expect you to make peace with me tonight and then as a good faith effort on both our parts we will turn on location sharing indefinitely     

I expect you to do this tonight if you do not I will know you are not serious

Ok, I'll be available tomorrow when you feel better.

This is condensing and I expect you to call me tonight as described above

That part in bold is my words to him and he's accusing me of being condescending.

This whole thing about making peace with him is nonsense, I didn't pick a fight with him. He's out of control.

[Turkish]

Were those public messages, or IMs?

[patientandclear]

He is hurt (it seems) because you have withdrawn aspects of your r/ship that he likes, due to his not having filed or completed a divorce action.

This is understandable and I don't know that it's emotionally immature.

I think this is what Skip and others were getting at when they said it would be wise either to accept who he is, including married-no-progress-toward-divorce, and engage with him with an open heart; or accept that you do not want to be in such a r/ship with a married man, and be clear about ending it. The limbo is destroying the value of the r/ship to him and his reactions are making you miserable.

He wants you to go about a r/ship with openness and warmth and generosity despite no divorce. It's understandable that he wants this. It's even more understandable if you can't do that.

But the in-the-middle is a mess.

[unicorn2014]

Were those public messages, or IMs?

Instant message, he is very careful to present a positive public image.

[unicorn2014]

He is hurt (it seems) because you have withdrawn aspects of your r/ship that he likes, due to his not having filed or completed a divorce action.

This is understandable and I don't know that it's emotionally immature.

I think this is what Skip and others were getting at when they said it would be wise either to accept who he is, including married-no-progress-toward-divorce, and engage with him with an open heart; or accept that you do not want to be in such a r/ship with a married man, and be clear about ending it. The limbo is destroying the value of the r/ship to him and his reactions are making you miserable.

He wants you to go about a r/ship with openness and warmth and generosity despite no divorce. It's understandable that he wants this. It's even more understandable if you can't do that.

But the in-the-middle is a mess.

I hear what you are saying and I am holding out, hoping something will change. He told me his lawyer's intern is going to file a motion to comply tomorrow morning and I asked him for a copy of this.

Yesterday, and Friday night, my partner was having an existential crisis and the last time that happened he attempted suicide so I was , of course, cautious. Yesterday he got upset with me because I couldn't call him when I said I would because my daughter walked in.

I'm ashamed of myself much in the same I was ashamed of myself by how I handled my father.

My partner was very aggressive yesterday, calling, texting, emailing, Facebook messaging. I had to unplug my phone and put my phone in do not disturb mode. The problem is when I do that I also cut off anyone else who is trying to reach me. Today everything is back to normal, but I'm weary. He called me things like a rude girl, emotionally abusive, emotionally unstable. I know if I were to tell my sober (and not sober) male friends about how my partner treats me they would tell me to run.

He says I break up with him when I point out the fact that he's married and I'm single.

I think it is emotional immaturity.

Single/married are marital statuses.

If I can't talk about that without him having a meltdown and accusing me of breaking up with him, that sounds like emotional immaturity to me.

I'm on the conflicted board for a reason: I'm not ready to leave but I can't commit to a  man who can't commit to me because he's still married to someone else.

I believe him that he's making an effort, however when he tells me things like turn back on location sharing or I'm not telling you what my lawyer said, how is that not emotional immaturity?

[Grey Kitty]

How does it feel to be taking a day off from communications with him?

[flourdust]

I believe him that he's making an effort, however when he tells me things like turn back on location sharing or I'm not telling you what my lawyer said, how is that not emotional immaturity?

That's a threat.

[unicorn2014]

How does it feel to be taking a day off from communications with him?

It hasn't happened yet, he just called me and then hung up on me after 5 minutes. I told him that he's not ready to hear what I have to say yet, as soon as I say one word about what I'm experiencing he throws it back at me. I put my phone in do not disturb mode.

He thinks just because he tells me he loves me and he misses me that everything is ok.

I told him I was not happy with what happened yesterday and I was not happy with what was happening right now.

He said I wasn't happy because I wasn't following some guidelines I was trained in.

I told him I had no idea what he was talking about, I wasn't trained in any guidelines, and I wasn't happy with myself about how I handled things yesterday nor how I was handling things today.

He thinks there's some kind of equality between us and how I treat him equals how he treats me. Not at all.

I live in an apartment complex and its embarrassing to me that he makes me so angry that I start to yell at him.

On the up side, I did add  his best friend on Facebook, so we will see if he really has negative things to say about me or not.

Flourdust, isn't using threats a sign of emotional immaturity?

[flourdust]

Flourdust, isn't using threats a sign of emotional immaturity?

I don't know that it matters. I think it's more helpful to focus on the actual behaviors rather than trying to put them into broad abstract categories. "Emotional immaturity" isn't something that you can put a boundary on or decide how to tolerate. "Threats" are.

[unicorn2014]

Flourdust, isn't using threats a sign of emotional immaturity?

I don't know that it matters. I think it's more helpful to focus on the actual behaviors rather than trying to put them into broad abstract categories. "Emotional immaturity" isn't something that you can put a boundary on or decide how to tolerate. "Threats" are.

Ok, so how do you suggest I deal with threats?

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the fact that whenever I open my mouth to say a word about how I'm feeling he throws it right back in my face.

[flourdust]

Flourdust, isn't using threats a sign of emotional immaturity?

I don't know that it matters. I think it's more helpful to focus on the actual behaviors rather than trying to put them into broad abstract categories. "Emotional immaturity" isn't something that you can put a boundary on or decide how to tolerate. "Threats" are.

Ok, so how do you suggest I deal with threats?

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the fact that whenever I open my mouth to say a word about how I'm feeling he throws it right back in my face.

You've been given lots of suggestions on this thread and others. You could go no-contact until the divorce is resolved. (You tried low-contact, and that failed.) You could enforce a boundary that when he acts poorly during any kind of contact, you go no-contact for a fixed period of time (such as one day). Enforce that for any kind of poor behavior -- don't have a whole menu of punishments for hang-ups, threats, raging, lies, etc. And don't have a mishmash of no-contact, low-contact, and full-contact forms of communication. If you enforce a no-contact break period, that means ALL contact. Or you could just end this relationship, because it seems to bring you no happiness and doesn't show any signs that it would ever get better.

[unicorn2014]

Flourdust, isn't using threats a sign of emotional immaturity?

I don't know that it matters. I think it's more helpful to focus on the actual behaviors rather than trying to put them into broad abstract categories. "Emotional immaturity" isn't something that you can put a boundary on or decide how to tolerate. "Threats" are.

Ok, so how do you suggest I deal with threats?

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the fact that whenever I open my mouth to say a word about how I'm feeling he throws it right back in my face.

You've been given lots of suggestions on this thread and others. You could go no-contact until the divorce is resolved. (You tried low-contact, and that failed.) You could enforce a boundary that when he acts poorly during any kind of contact, you go no-contact for a fixed period of time (such as one day). Enforce that for any kind of poor behavior -- don't have a whole menu of punishments for hang-ups, threats, raging, lies, etc. And don't have a mishmash of no-contact, low-contact, and full-contact forms of communication. If you enforce a no-contact break period, that means ALL contact. Or you could just end this relationship, because it seems to bring you no happiness and doesn't show any signs that it would ever get better.

I appreciate what you are saying flour dust but I do believe if I can stand my ground and not let him bully me or push me around it does have a chance to improve. These are the texts he sent me after the 5 min conversation

If we do not correct the same things we both do in parell then I little point in discussing it. I too can not control how you talk to me either

This mornings message was positive and I was hopeful... .And talking to you just now sounds like we are gong backwards

Ok

So I accept that is that

###

I called

Went you direct  VM

Left s message

I tried

Not going to call back

###

He said elsewhere that he was going to give me space and that he hopes I paint today and told him thank you and I'll call him after my meeting tonight.

He told me he would be unavailable after my meeting despite the fact his calendar is empty

He punishes me for taking space yet accuses me of being a bad partner and he's still married.

That's all I'm asking for him, space, without being accused of breaking up with him. I would also like to be able to talk about the difference in our marital statuses without him accusing me of breaking up with him, but I think that's a bit too much to ask right now.

I really hope his lawyer's intern files a motion to comply tomorrow.

I know people on the boards warned me his divorce could be long and messy and I listened.

I really do believe I can handle this relationship if I can handle my boundaries: not being talked down to, put down, insulted, humiliated, etc.

I find it interesting that my partner and my father trigger the same issues in me.

[Grey Kitty]

I find it interesting that my partner and my father trigger the same issues in me.

That is very interesting. And that you are recognizing it seems like a very good realization on your part.

I think "trigger" is a good word for you today. You are finding yourself triggered by so many things here.

Try to notice the upsetting triggering things, before you immediately react to them. It is hard to do, but (fortunately?   ) you are likely to have many many many opportunities.

I would also note that if you feel triggered and need space from him, you can simply take space, instead of asking for it. And if you take space, you are not in communications with him. (In a LDR, you can mute, silence, block, etc. on your phone and social media.

You can do it with a few words. "I need to take some space. I'll be back in contact tomorrow morning."

Stating an end-time and sticking to it is a nice bonus, as it helps manage his fear of abandonment a bit. If you do this, please pick a concrete measurable time period. Never use a vague word like "soon" or "later"... .and if you do, I highly recommend you honor what you said you were doing. You want him to learn that your words are trustworthy. And note that you didn't (and shouldn't) promise to STAY in contact, if he is still behaving in a difficult and triggering fashion when you reconnect.

Once you DO this, it doesn't matter if he thinks you are holding the relationship hostage. You stopped being in contact with him, and you won't hear or read it if he tries to communicate that with you.

If you take space, you get space.

If you ask for space, you get ... .well, you've seen what you get, and posted it in this topic.

[unicorn2014]

Thank you Grey Kitty, I failed on Saturday but I'm sure I'll have another chance to succeed. He goes ballistic when I take space and calls, texts, Facebook messages, calls my home phone. I can't block his number on my home phone so I have to pull the cord out of the socket but I can put my cell phone in DND mode and mark anyone I might need to hear from that day favorite. I usually have our text conversation on mute just because I don't want to get disturbed by it. I can mute our conversation on Facebook messenger. I've already unfollowed him on Facebook as I find his posts triggering.

----

In hindsight I had a problem with him a few days prior to Saturday when he said he wasn't going to be interested or wasn't going to his waste his time or wasn't going to pay attention to my daughter's track practice anymore because she didn't take it seriously. I was able to tell him his language was a problem for me, it triggers me when he says he's not going to pay attention to something anymore. I would actually prefer to end the conversation in the future without trying to change his language because he has certain phrases that he uses that bother me.

[Grey Kitty]

Yes indeed. Another day, another chance.

Thought for today... .there is that definition of insanity--doing the same thing over again, but expecting a different result.

Old way:

Your partner uses a phrase that bothers you (or does something else triggering like hanging up on you)

You tell your partner that this bothers you and ask him not to. (As nicely as you can, which sometimes is quite nice, and other times you are triggered and is less nice.)

Your partner then proceeds to escalate things against you in some form, either blaming you for what you are feeling, accusing you of holding the relationship hostage, or whatever.

What can you do differently?

My first suggestion is just stop asking him to not do things like this. He's already heard all this from you 10,000 times, and it hasn't reduced how much he does it to you.

Work really hard to recognize when you WANT to do this and are about to do this, and manage to shut your mouth, or not send that text. If all you can manage is saying "gotta go now." on the phone and disconnecting, or not replying at all to the text, that is a good start.

Get yourself ready to stop and think about what you want to do or say. We can work on more productive responses later... .start on getting yourself out of the existing habit.

[unicorn2014]

Thank you Grey Kitty, I really want to get this right. I have to live with me, not with him, which means I have to live with how I conduct myself with him.

Today's issue, and the issue of the day does matter to me, so if it doesn't matter to you, please let me know as I know it doesn't matter to some members of the board, is that my partner assigned a derogatory comment on Instagram to my daughter when in fact when one of her friends made it, and she found it offensive. I'm still waiting to hear back from him on that one.

I haven't talked to him yet today and I'm happy about that as I don't want to have to correct him again. I told him in a text his perception was wrong, he was the one who saw the comment on my daughter's Instagram and reported it to me.