Subjective reality, or what?

[Ceruleanblue]

Something weird I've never shared here before, and it will sound weird, but sometimes I just see or know things. I get "flashes" where I will just know or see something. I can't just make it happen, it just does. Well, tonight I had one of those, where I saw two guitars in my head. I immediately knew that BPDh had likely "loaned" his son his two electric guitars. I mean, I could see it in my head. I asked him, and sure enough, he had. Now, we were driving in the car when I "saw" this, and asked him about it.

Now, here is the issue: I believe "borrowing" means you get things back. BPDh has "loaned" his kids things, especially his son, and his son does not return them. They just become his. His son is entitled, and all he has to do is ask for something, and BPDh gives it to him, whether it be $4,500 that we are now out, or the latest, which is two guitars.

Now, I get that they are BPDh's guitars to "loan", but I hate that none of these items ever come back, and rather than ask for them back, BPDh will go out and spend money to replace them(that we can't afford). He gave his son our storage unit keys, and his son "borrowed" stuff, and we couldn't get the keys back. His son also gave away some of the stuff!

It's making me afraid to have his son over, because he always leaves with things. He'll outright tell BPDh that he wants this or that. He's said he wants my birds, and I fear that I'll come home some day, and BPDh will have let him have them! His son does not take care of his own stuff, and I'm sure he won't take care of BPDh's guitars(one of which I bought BPDh). His son wanted to "borrow" the guitars because he broke his own. Sort of like how he wrecked BPD's car twice, and has since blown up two of his own cars because he won't put oil in it.

The real crux for me is the message he's sending his son: love can be bought, and that "borrowing" means it's now yours. BOTH bad messages. I feel it's never too late to show your kids a better way, or a good example. I practice this with my kids. In fact, just today I saw a really good foreign commercial where a father was apologizing to his grown daughter, and showing her that he's improved(by now helping her mother with housework).

Is this a matter of subjective reality, that BPDh just sees this through HIS reality only? He agrees that "borrowing" doesn't mean something is then the other person's, but he says my view of borrowing means getting things back is weird. I can see and understand that he feels he'd loaning his kid things, but if he won't ever ask for them back, that is NOT loaning, that is gifting, yet he refuses to call it that.

I'm sick of things coming up missing. I'm sick of his kid being entitled to any of our things he wants, and it's a long list of things.

Is it really so hard for pwBPD to relate to views other than their own?

[Notwendy]

Dysfunctional people relate to others in a dysfunctional way. This includes family members. Very likely, your H and his son have established this pattern between them long before you even knew him. This is their own relationship and it is tightly orchestrated between them. It works for them. It is unlikely that you will have much influence to change it.

Reality of relationships in dysfunctional families is subjective. To the family members- and especially the kids who grew up in them- and so don't know another way to relate in a family- these patterns do feel right, and so they would not question them. Denial also runs strong in these families.

While you may see issues here, they feel "right" in this pattern. It works for them.

In addition, people outside this "dance" between family members may not be aware of the innuendos of them. I was very aware of the issues in my own FOO,  but not in my H's. I was frequently breaking unspoken family rules in his- not because I was rude but because I was not aware of them. I have noticed things that I don't agree with, but they  feel perfectly right to them. In addition, I grew up with ways that felt right to me growing up- and they were right in the context of my FOO, but outside that, were enabling and led to dysfunction.

Families are comfortable in their patterns, even if these patterns are dysfunctional. So yes, it is very possible that what seems wrong to you feels perfectly right to your H, and so, changing how he relates to his son is unlikely.

[formflier]

 

CB,

Your fears are founded in reality.  Your posts are consistent about your hubby's behavior.  The reason that you have fears (IMO) is that you clearly understand there is a basis in fact for your belief that your birds are not safe from being given away, even if you say no.

What I hope you realize is that you are responsible for managing your fears and the situation.  Your hubby cannot/will not.  I wouldn't go so far to say that if your birds turn up missing it is "your fault", but I hope you realize that leaving your hubby responsible for managing his behavior in this area is not a good plan.

Let me give you an example from my r/s. 

For whatever reason, my wife is not able to be "reasonable" with my email.  So, I lock it.  Every once in a while I leave a computer unattended and she can't help herself.  She will find something and forward it to various people in her family.

It's what she does and who she is.  It's not my fault that they have those emails but I am the only one with the power to make sure they don't get emails in the future.

Now, there is a practical issue about the birds.  How to keep them safe.  What ideas do you have, that don't involve your hubby following rules or "being reasonable".

Last:  I've had several wonderful birds in my life, I feel for you and your situation.   

FF

[flourdust]

If I was in your position, I would enforce some boundaries/rules ... .both for my peace of mind and to let BPDh know what lines you don't want him to cross.

1) He can give/loan his stuff to his son if he wants. If it's his, and it's not marital property, and it's not something that impacts your household, that is. Guitars that only he uses -- no problem. A knife block that you both use in the kitchen -- not OK.

2) He can not replace stuff he gives away with marital funds.

3) He can not give away your stuff without permission.

You may have to take strong action to enforce these. If he gives away your birds, kick him out of the house, and tell him he's not welcome back until he returns with the birds. If he spends money to buy replacement guitars, kick him out of the house and tell him he's not welcome back until he gets a refund for those guitars.

If you don't want him to walk all over you, you'll have to dish out real consequences (and expect that things will get unpleasant as a result). But you should also pay attention to point 1 -- so you don't seethe in resentment about him giving stuff to his son that has no impact on you. Figure out what is not your business and learn not to let it bother you -- but the stuff that IS your business, you need to get much more assertive about.

[formflier]

 

Hey, I've been thinking about my earlier post to CB about boundaries while I was on a walk.  I think I failed to make a critical point.

Boundaries work both ways.

His stuff/my stuff defines what each person gets a say about and what they don't get a say about.

So, just like your hubby has no "right" to give away your birds, CB has no "right" to be involved with a decision by hubby to give away, burn, shred, break, modify, devalue or in any way deal with "his stuff" unless he "invites" her onto his property (property being a figure of speech) to give an opinion.

If he does "invite" her, she could choose to say no, that she will keep opinion to herself.

My bottom line point.  If CB doesn't respect her own boundaries, why should her hubby respect CBs boundaries?  (Perhaps a bit strong of a question, I'm hoping the point is made or someone else could tone it down some if needed)



FF

[Cloudy Days]

I find this interesting because my husband will borrow stuff from his mother with no intentions of giving it back and she usually doesn't ask for anything back. But on the other hand if we borrow something from my mother, you better believe she will ask for it back at some point.

I just see it as my mother in law has more money than my own mother, when my mother needs something back, that is when she asks for it. If she never needs it back, she won't ask for it. I could see myself being this way with my children if I had them.

I also wanted to say that while it is frustrating that he is giving something expensive away, it is his to give away. When it comes to your stuff I would put down a very strict boundary around it. There is no way I would allow my husband to give away my pets, I would flip a lid... .

[Notwendy]

I think in this case it is hard to separate marital funds and private funds, because from other posts, your H thinks of the money he earns as all his. He has acquired debt. I agree that it is irritating that he chooses to spend money on guitars and his son rather than honor the household needs and the relationship- ie grocery money. However, since he earns the money and is not honoring his marital commitment, he does what he wants with it. I agree that these are his guitars, but if he is spending money on guitars and not groceries, there is a problem.

FF hit on an idea. If CB does not respect her own boundaries, her H won't respect them. Yet, upholding boundaries rocks the marriage and then he threatens divorce. He knows that he really has no serious consequences to pushing the boundaries.

I don't know who said it first, but "when people show you who they are, believe them". This is who he is. He steps over boundaries constantly, considers his own needs and his children's needs first and doesn't consider CB's needs. His behavior reflects this over and over and over. But CB, you have chosen to put the marriage to him first, above your needs, and so this is also the choice you have made. He puts his needs first, and appeasing him just reinforced to him that his needs are first. He is who he is.

[bruceli]

IME, when it comes to pwPD, others that anyone could have a different opinion from their's doesn't even compute in their minds.  I can so relate to your on going situation. My pwPD, although several hundred dollars short to pay her rent, gave her daughter 600 so she could pay off her bills, then proceeded to pressure me to come up with the short fall. When a boundary was set around this I then became an un loving partner.  A common behavior, IMO, in regards to a pwPD.

[flourdust]

I think in this case it is hard to separate marital funds and private funds, because from other posts, your H thinks of the money he earns as all his.

It's true that he may THINK of money as his, but if they are married, all income is marital.

[Notwendy]

I agree it is, but in marriages there  is an agreement about this. With someone with BPD that agreement is hard to get someone to adhere to. He can agree on it, but the truth is, he gets the paycheck and so, does what he chooses with it. Without legal action, I don't know how else to establish and hold someone to this.