Boundaries: giving a specific time/deadline to respond by

[DearBFF]

BACKSTORY: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=291306.0

 everyone!

So BFF got out of the hospital yesterday.  She called me once to thank me for the flowers and care package I dropped at the hospital for her, but never asked me to visit so I didn't.

All contact has been going through her boyfriend so as not to disturb her rest and recovery while she's been in the hospital and I called him to offer help next week.  After some advice on the boards from Grey Kitty I made sure I was very specific on times and days and even gave her an out mentioning that she could kick us out whenever she wants, so if she got tired (or just wanted space) we already gave her permission to ask us to leave.  Boyfriend responded positively and said he would pass along the info.  I told him I would need to know that night so I could tell my daughter's teacher today that we would not be doing school next week.

Boyfriend discussed my offer with BFF when he picked her up from the hospital, but he told me that she said she would reach out to me.  I never heard from her... .  I've realized I HATE when this happens because I am left in limbo and it doesn't feel good.  She either gets annoyed at something and then withdraws with no explanation or wants to say no but ignores me instead.  I have discussed this with her in the past, and it seems to do nothing as it keeps happening over and over.  Now I see it's up to me to try and get a response in a reasonable time since she is incapable of it.

It's possible he did not pass along my deadline of last night so I've texted her asking how she is doing and to please let me know about next week so that I can tell my daughter's teacher.  I asked for a response by 4pm so that I can be sure the teacher gets the message before she leaves for the weekend.  The truth is that I talked to my daughter's teacher yesterday and told her it is a possibility, but I told her I also would let her know if it was a definite.  I want to keep my word.

While I COULD wait for a possible phone call from her Sunday night or Monday morning saying yes to come, I don't WANT to do that anymore.  Being in limbo doesn't just put my plans up in the air, it also puts my daughter's plans up in the air as well as time with my husband.  She always mentions that I have more time than her, but I don't think she realizes that I MAKE time if something is important to me.  Yet, I need to not drop everything and hopefully she will learn she has to work with me and not expect everything on her time/schedule.

I actually feel bad about this in a way, but I have to remember I am not dealing with a child she is a grown woman and a reasonable response time should not be too much to ask.  If I hear nothing by 4pm today then I will take her lack of response as a strong NO.  I will not call (that feels like chasing her), and I will plan on doing school as normal with my daughter next week. 

I would like to give her a call if I haven't heard from her by Sunday to see how she is doing and ask if I can visit her for a few hours on Monday evening and pick up dinner to eat together.  If she doesn't answer (a strong possibility if she is dodging giving me an answer about next week) then I will leave a message about a visit and dinner together.  If she is interested in that she can call back.  I will not mention next week at all and if she brings it up I will say my deadline was Friday at 4pm so by then it will be too late.

I am hoping this will teach her that I need notice and will not always drop everything.  Granted sometimes I do if I haven't seen her in a while, but I realize now I need to stop it as much as possible.  Every once in a while she will call out of the blue and ask if I am busy and I feel like if I am truly not busy and can hang out then I probably will.  However, I will not keep putting other things off to hang out with her.

How am I doing? 

Do any of you feel bad about this kind of thing? 

Any other ideas or advice is greatly appreciated! 

Thank you all!   

[Grey Kitty]

First off, you did it for good reason, when you asked the BF to pass the info on to her. At one level, you know she knows and is blowing you off. She knows this too. But by using the BF as an intermediary, it is easier for everybody to get away with pretending nothing weird is happening. But the time for that has ended. Stop using him as an intermediary.

You say you expect her to dodge your call. If so, don't call, text. You probably expect her to ignore your text as well... .so here is what you do. You tell her clearly exactly what you will do if you don't hear from her when you text her, and then you stick to it.

Text her with something like this: "I'd love to spend some time helping you out next week, and I have to give my daughter's teacher a day's notice if we aren't doing school. If I don't hear from you today, I'll be doing school as normal monday."

If you hear from her Sunday night, say "Sorry, I already told teacher I'd be there Monday. Would you like me to tell her tomorrow so I can be with you on Tuesday?"

(I'm not quite sure what the details are... .but the point of the boundary enforcement is this--you aren't going to flake out on your other commitments just because she is yanking you around.)

[Grey Kitty]

A postscript... .I don't leave voicemail messages for very many people these days, for a few reasons.

1. I know a bunch of people who are overworked, introverted, and thus avoid answering calls... .and don't listen to voicemails anyways. These people would rather be texted than get a call, or a voicemail. I am sure that there are other people like this and I just don't know it.

2. When I'm leaving a voicemail, I feel kinda on the spot and can get nervous about saying something weird or sounding stupid or wishy washy, or something... .Especially if the conversation is challenging in some way. (Like this kind of weird interaction where you KNOW that the pwBPD is intentionally avoiding your call!)

At a time like that, it is much easier to compose a text message that is clear and says what I want to say, and send it.

... .So what I do is call somebody... .hang up on their voicemail... .then compose the message I want to send, and use whatever text-chat app is appropriate. (Some people I mostly SMS; Other people I mostly use FB Messenger, etc.)

In this case, being assertive and standing up with your boundary is hard work and takes practice... .and much easier to do by text message with time to edit it than when leaving a voicemail! (During really difficult times I've been known to get a text message, come here post about it in a panic, call a friend for support, then finally give a good response by text... .the person I'm texting none the wiser for all the crazy worrying I've done for the last two hours!)

[DearBFF]

Thank you for your response, Grey Kitty!  

I have only used BF as in intermediary as he/they requested while she was at the hospital, with the exception of last night's text checking if she made it home and wasn't still in the hospital.

She does not just dodges my calls, but almost anybody's call, including BF at times.  I have watched her doing nothing that made it particularly impossible to answer and she will just hit ignore or let it go to voicemail.  I do know that she has told me that when she is with BF he tells her to answer my calls saying, ":)on't ignore your friend."  So then to keep up appearances of being a model friend she answers, otherwise, she'd have to explain why she was ignoring me and she never particularly has a good reason.  I almost wonder if he was in the hospital room the other morning when she called to thank me, as it is the normal/polite response when someone does something nice for you.  That phone call could have just been show for him, I'll never know.

Part of why I tend to not like texting her is that her barn has a horrible signal sometimes doesn't get them at all.  She has even sent some from there that I have never gotten either.  As for calling, she has an ex-BF who turns off her cell phone service for fun (not sure how, but he bought her the phone) and when it is off she does not get any of the texts, nor do they come through after it gets turned back on.  This is why I call... .then I know the message it gives me when her phone is off versus her just not answering/ignoring me.  She has said when she is with BF and I call he will say ":)on't ignore your friend." but if he was not there she might just hit ignore.

I usually do not leave a voicemail as she has said she doesn't usually listen to them.  She has always said call and if I don't answer I'm busy, just call back.  Text if you have a question, I'll text back, except she almost never does.  She has also said that my texts (which are usually longer as I often have a lot to ask) make her anxious.  The thing is when I have a few questions I want/need to ask her I don't know what I am supposed to do?  Most of the responses I get from text are usually "busy" or "call you later/tomorrow."  Except she almost never does.  The only exceptions in the last month were when I asked if she wanted a riding helmet from the thrift store, she did, and when I was confirming details of plans we had made for the girls.

I have no idea what boundary I could come up with for her not responding to texts.  Any ideas?

The only boundary I have ever put in place and had opportunity to follow through on is that when she stops communicating (not like a day goes by but a few days where I cannot reach her or more) I will show up to ask why.

Part of me thinks stopping by with a bag of Taco Bell Monday night might get me farther than a phone call or text, .  Although that doesn't work if she has to eat something specific like no regular food or something.  I would have to ask BF... .*sigh*


It's already after 4pm here and no response, so I have to take that as a NO since I don't know what else to do about that.  It would not be very easy for me to say I could be there Tuesday as I was going to take the whole week off (take my daughter's week of Spring Break a week early), so if we start doing school hours on Sunday/Monday for next week then I would like to put in 20 hours of school that week.  Also, the main reason I wanted to let the teacher know is that my daughter would miss her homeroom on Tuesday with the teacher.

I really would like to know what to do about a person with BPD who is really, really difficult to communicate with.  This one part of our relationship is very frustrating and I don't know what to do about it as that would require talking to her, something that rarely happens.

Thank you!  

[Grey Kitty]

Yes, she has good excuses for avoiding contact with you. (not getting texts, etc.)

My suggestion is communicating to her that you won't be there if you don't hear from her by a certain time.

She says to text her. Believe that. Just make it very clear in your texts "I would love to see you tomorrow midday, if you confirm tonight. If I don't hear, I'll be busy doing (something else)."

(And really do "something else" and choose something that is important and interesting enough to you that you won't want to drop it on a moment's notice)

If you get a text or call from her tomorrow at 11am asking you to show up, tell her you are busy, and schedule it for the next day.

You are teaching her that your time is valuable, and you aren't going to hang around waiting for her to decide to respond on short notice and yank you around.

[Harri]

Hi DearBFF.  

Grey Kitty said just what I spent quite a bit of time trying to write, but in a very long-winded and convoluted way.

Her silence is her response.  

Please remember this:

Grey Kitty:  You are teaching her that your time is valuable, and you aren't going to hang around waiting for her to decide to respond on short notice and yank you around.

You need to start valuing your self and your time before she ever will.  There is no boundary you can put in place on this sort of thing that will change her behavior.  She keeps doing the crappy thing and gets what she wants on her terms.  If you want this dynamic to change the only chance you have to to change things at your end.

[DearBFF]

Thank you Harri & Grey Kitty!

Great advice and I LOVE it!  

This last time we reconnected I just told her one day a week we planned to stay home so if she didn't call it wasn't a big deal.  I was fine with this for a while, but then I'd get hubby or someone else asking "Oh are you busy this day?" or "Are you going to see BFF this day?" etc and I didn't have an answer.  I would have to say, "I don't know."  They would say, "Can you find out?"  I'd try by calling and she usually wouldn't answer, so then I still didn't know.  So after a while of that, it still left me feeling icky still.

Yes, you are right.  It's going to be very hard for me those first few times I know because I really do want to see her.

I'm going to have to explain to her that I make time for things that are important to me, her and her daughter included, but I do this by planning at the beginning of the week or a few days ahead.  Last minute stuff just isn't going to work for us anymore.

As I brought up to her a few weeks back, I would like our daughters to still have contact even when she goes into no contact.  I asked and she said it would be fine with her if I contacted her ex-husband to see if I can pick up their daughter for a playdate or playtime at the park.  He lives only about 10 minutes away while BFF lives about 30, so I texted him about it tonight.  I keep everything with him strictly about the girls because my thoughts on him are that he is most likely a Narcissist, so I only pick up and drop off his daughter but never hang out with him.  Still even he (after he finished work) texted me back to apologize for missing my text, and somehow this is like new and strange behavior to me because I am so unfamiliar with it.  I need to stop normalizing BFF's behavior and understanding that it is disordered, and everyone else's is normal not the other way around.  That will be hard with my background, but I will work on it.

Thanks again!  

p.s. Grey Kitty, I LOVE your avatar pic!  It makes me smile,