Millenium BPD romance aftermath

[sebastian.l]

I have been with a girl for 2 years almost. She has been diagnosed with bi-polar tendencies and I didn't see the BPD traits until I came over a Facebook conversation with one of her best friends who is a shrink. In this conversation I also found out that she was seeing another guy for some weeks behind my back. The shrink friend told her it was not ok to behave like this, she needed to be honest to herself and me. She also reminded her that she cheated in all her relationships before when she was in love and it was not a thing that occurs in everyone. After learning this, I broke up out of a rational mind decision. Other hand, my feelings towards her stayed since I saw the girl I fell in love with not the possible BPD that cheated. My rational mind stamped her as a not trustworthy person and abusive. When I dumped her, which was hard, she did everything to avoid this and pull me back into. I jumped on that train but felt it was more like for her selfish reasons to correct her self-image and avoid 'being dumped'. Comforting me and gain trust back seemed not to be the goal of her action. It was about her not about me. I left again. The she started to move on, see another guy again. She even ignored me on my birthday. Now I receive some 'strange' actions once in a while. Last week she used Facebook to react on a message I sent her 1 year ago. When asking what's this supposed to mean now, she said 'oh it was a mistake, sorry' Searching out an old message among hundreds, reacting on it and then saying it was by mistake? hmmm.

So, the basic reason I am posting this. When we have contact we always end up in the same circle. I put her up on her wrong doing (cheating, which was severe to me) Then I earn two reactions: 1. She doesn't spare to let me know how happy she is again now with the new guy and sends waving stickers to me. 2. She tells me to not be angry about her actions anymore, don't be a p***sy and move on with my life after our relationship didn't work. Her exact words last were: 'get your face out of your a*ss and move on!'

For me this is very hurtful. She makes me feel like I would not be 'man enough' to get over her cheating and move on. She invalidates my hurt feelings about her wrong doing. I want her to take responsibility for that! and not just walk away with a smile from the havoc she caused over and over again.

Am I wrong here? Should I not have these feelings as a man? Should I be the less sensitive one and just accept her doing as something 'normal' that happens to all of us without judging her?

Cheating on somebody, then walk away from it, move on to the next and tell the left behind 'see, I am happy again... so don't be such a p**sy about it and do the same!' Is this the attitude we should have in our 21st century romances?

[WoundedBibi]

Cheating on somebody, then walk away from it, move on to the next and tell the left behind 'see, I am happy again... so don't be such a p**sy about it and do the same!' Is this the attitude we should have in our 21st century romances?

No it shouldn't. I sometimes get the impression myself that behaviour such as this is becoming the norm amongst younger people (not that I'm old but younger than me) but I'm not sure how much of that is 'trying to act cool' and how much of that is influenced by famous people among which the percentage of PDs is generally speaking much higher than amongst us simple mortals.

The thing is you want her to apologize. You want her to say "listen, what I did was really really wrong and although I now am with someone else I still want to say I am truly sorry for hurting you." And that SebastianL, will never happen. A pwBPD is not capable of taking responsibility for their actions or acknowledging their actions have hurt you.

Because you never got an apology you keep getting back to this point. And she keeps giving you the same reaction. In that respect she is right that you need to move on: you need to accept that she probably has BPD (because her behaviour suits BPD) and therefore you will NEVER get an apology.

You are not wrong for having these feelings (feelings are never wrong anyway, you have them, they are neither wrong or right). If you're a man or a woman doesn't matter, if you feel hurt and betrayed you feel hurt and betrayed. And you have every right to feel like this. And from every 'normal' partner you should be able to get an apology for hurting you. But not from a BPD one. That is like waiting for hell to freeze over. You will have to find your own way to work through these feelings of hurt and betrayal without ever getting an apology...

Which brings me to THE question: why are you still in contact with her?

[zeus123]

Woundedbibi is absolutely correct. Why are you still in contact with her?

[sebastian.l]

Woundedbibi is absolutely correct. Why are you still in contact with her?

I was not in contact with her until she refreshed that facebook chat last week. It popped up on my phone, I asked what this supposed to mean and she said it was 'by accident, she tried to delete it but it didn't work'. That's cr**p. Nobody recycles a one year old message and posts by accident.

I agree, my reason to enter the communication then is the one of the unresolved apology ... that will never happen. And I wonder where she takes this incredible huge motivation from to disrespect me? It seems like she almost feats her energy on that disrespect.

[gotbushels]

I'm sorry to hear that you have gone through this pain sebastian. Having read your post, I'd say that your experience doesn't categorise all 21st century romances, so don't drive yourself up the wall too far:)

I would have asked:

Which brings me to THE question: why are you still in contact with her?

Where you said:

I was not in contact with her until she refreshed that facebook chat last week. It popped up on my phone, I asked what this supposed to mean and she said it was 'by accident, she tried to delete it but it didn't work'. That's cr**p. Nobody recycles a one year old message and posts by accident.

I don't know her intention, but look at the senseless drama she caused. For you, try to do NC which means NC regardless of silly "accidental" messages from the BP's failure to handle themselves.

[WoundedBibi]

Woundedbibi is absolutely correct. Why are you still in contact with her?

I was not in contact with her until she refreshed that facebook chat last week. It popped up on my phone, I asked what this supposed to mean and she said it was 'by accident, she tried to delete it but it didn't work'. That's cr**p. Nobody recycles a one year old message and posts by accident.

I agree, my reason to enter the communication then is the one of the unresolved apology ... that will never happen. And I wonder where she takes this incredible huge motivation from to disrespect me? It seems like she almost feats her energy on that disrespect.

You can leave out the almost.

In her BPD mind she has done no wrong. You however have. You have had the audacity to leave... You are the a... hole here. According to her. She MUST think this. If she doesn't she has to acknowledge what she did was wrong. If what she did was wrong, she IS wrong. As a person. A complete waste of space. Core shame. She cannot go there because allowing herself to feel that is too much. For a pwBPD feelings are VERY intense. The feelings of core shame are so intense she would feel she would actually die. Obviously she is not going to want to have that feeling. No one would. So she projects the feeling of wrongdoing on you.

This gives her enormous energy.

And she feeds off of your reaction. Your energy gives her energy.

So be smart, step out of the circle. Being in it will not give you what you want but will cost you energy and bring you more heartache, frustration, strange communication, etcetera.

[Concerns]

I feel for you Seb. Remember cheaters, even in non's, will never really be sorry for what they did. They may internalize some shame. They had already justified the affair in their minds when they decided to cheat. Cheaters rarely have this "road to Damascus" moment where they are totally sorry for what they did and it changes their character because of the amount of injury they've caused someone.

I have yet to receive a true apology from my cheating wife.

On culture: we now live in a modern culture where cheating in relationships and relationships are secondary to peoples pursuit of desire and happiness. I, however, do not feel that because modern culture has decided that infidelity is more permissible in a modern society is justification for the damage it actually causes. She and society may feel that "moving on rather than being a puss*" is a perfectly reasonable to step to justify injuring people but causing pain in the pursuit of your own "happiness" is maladjusted and alleviates accountability in that pursuit. This is not the attitude to have in the 21st century but it is an indication of the culture.    

[sebastian.l]

So she projects the feeling of wrongdoing on you.

This gives her enormous energy.

That's the point! I feel like I am the one doing wrong here. However, I didn't. There is no logical reason for her to blame me. That's what creates this total confusion in my head. I walked away from somebody that hurt me.

Your explanations make a lot of sense. Thanks for that!

[sebastian.l]

On culture: we now live in a modern culture where cheating in relationships and relationships are secondary to peoples pursuit of desire and happiness.

I agree, younger culture seems to go down that road. Me personally, I realize society just sees the relationship nowadays - not the person they are with. I find the being with matching people as probably the biggest pursuit in our lives. Many people, however, seem to focus on 'what they have'. what kind of relationship, what this gives to them, what comes out of it. The personality of the counterpart seems secondary.

[sebastian.l]

what disturbs me most is that I receive more critic in our society for being hurt, finding it difficult to cope with the hurtful things and move on... .than she receives for her bad behavior and hurting people! everybody seems fine with that

Is this a phenomenon of our culture or what?

[rfriesen]

Is this a phenomenon of our culture or what?

Although that's too big a question to have a simple answer, I would say that the simple answer is yes.

Most cultures and social systems have, in comparison with today's western culture (which is increasingly the global culture, at least in cities), had fairly strict understandings of an individual's role in society, whether as a wife or child or servant or serf, etc etc. No doubt those cultures could be very oppressive to many individuals, so I'm not advocating for or against any particular culture. But the flip side is our modern individualistic culture encourages everyone to find out what their own inner truth, values, goals, aspirations are. And then you're supposed to get out there and realise them for yourself. Combine this with our culture's incessant focus on material pleasures, consumption, individual satisfaction, ... .and it seems to me a natural outcome is that individuals feel entitled (even expected, encouraged, commanded) to pursue satisfaction of whatever desires they happen to have at any given moment. Our culture offers very little in the way of an overarching life plan that individuals are meant to follow (such as you might find in a society still ruled by institutionalised religion, for instance -- though, again, I'm not arguing for or against any such society). So many many people are left with little guidance in life other than that they're expected to fulfill their momentary desires, the more the better. And anyone else who gets hurt along the way just needs to dust themselves off and go satisfy their own desires too.

Of course, these are very broad generalisations, and there are countless individuals in our modern western societies who find healthier ways to build relationships and pursue individual fulfillment. But, to come back to my simplistic answer to your question, I would say, yes, we live in a culture that encourages a reckless pursuit of individual pleasures and it seems to have reached pathological proportions, in my eyes. But it's impossible, really, to step out of your own culture and offer a truly objective opinion. So this is all obviously only my two cents!

[RighteousAnger]

what disturbs me most is that I receive more critic in our society for being hurt, finding it difficult to cope with the hurtful things and move on... .than she receives for her bad behavior and hurting people! everybody seems fine with that

Is this a phenomenon of our culture or what?

Yes it is true... .as a society we make tons of excuses for bad behavior. Murdered someone? Not their fault, they have a mental illness and didn't know any better... .a few years in a mental institution should do the trick. This phenomena IMO is related to 99% of lawyers giving the other 1% a bad name. No, but really it does blow donkey balls... .and not good donkey balls, but like the bad ones.

Sorry, I tend to use humor to help me through pain and I'm currently dealing with my uBPDexgf (only ex as of 5 days ago) and she does all the same ___. Not that she hasn't been my ex many times before, we have a recycling history. She would verbally assault me including calling me a p***y and that if I were any kind of man I'd just apologize and move on... .apologize for her concocted offenses which then were followed with every insult she could hurl at me and going out and hanging out with her "guy" friends.

Currently I am doing good with NC but I am bad in that I read her emails... .telling me how she is going to f**k this guy she has constantly threatened me with and how their texting is getting hot with him, thanking me for breaking up with her bc now she gets to f**k him and be with a real man... .smiley face blowing a kiss. So, yeah I get your Righteous Rage. And if you are anything like me, which it sounds you might look a little into this, you want justice. Justice says when someone does something wrong they should either own up to it and offer a sincere heart felt apology or be punished for it. THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN from a pwBPD. Nope nope nope. Only justice you'll get is in your mind... .remember that behind her waving emoji and vicious insults and care-the-eff-less attitude towards the injustices she has inflicted upon you there is a scared child inside an adults body that has no identity. This is the only solace you will get.

But yeah, I get mad! I get really mad at times when my uBPDexgf says and does the things she does... .because it effing hurts!  It's outright cruel and just plain mean. I've never treated anyone like that and I had never been treated like that ever.  I want her to feel the pain she is causing me... .and then I realize, oh yeah she does on a daily basis she just rarely shows that to anyone other than to the people closest to her and even that is rare.  I like to say she suffers from Psychopathic Borderline Personality Disorder with uncontrollable Narcissistic Rage... .it sorta makes me feel better.

[rfriesen]

As a follow-up, sebastian, I'm reminded of a quotation attributed to Jiddu Krishnamurti:

"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."

After finally ending things with my exBPDgf, I felt so empty, as though I were missing out on that intense, wild, all-encompassing romantic connection that our society sells to us as the ultimate dream. And my ex is the type to move on quickly, to be out at clubs, to party with lots of friends ... .and I've always preferred quiet and solitude. But after this break-up, I had trouble enjoying quiet and solitude the way I used to. I was left feeling like I'm missing out on life, like there is so much pleasure to be had in living the way my ex does. But it's not rational -- I saw for myself how profoundly sad and hurt she is inside.

I think it's just hard not to feel like you're missing out, when you don't chase the pleasures that everyone else seems to be chasing. That's why I like the quotation above so much -- just because almost everyone in our society seems to chasing certain pleasures (at least as portrayed in social media, advertising, etc), that doesn't mean happiness is to be found that way. Our society is undoubtedly profoundly sick in some ways -- most obviously the intense focus on consumption and constant satisfaction of individual desires.

[Herodias]

what disturbs me most is that I receive more critic in our society for being hurt, finding it difficult to cope with the hurtful things and move on... .than she receives for her bad behavior and hurting people! everybody seems fine with that

Is this a phenomenon of our culture or what?

Exactly! We are just supposed to get over it. They are happily moving on and everyone seems happy for them! Awful! The only thing is, I'm watching the Tudors and they seem to have allot of adultery going on then too. People knew about it and either ignored it or frowned on it. Same as in the 1900's seems with today's social media, you are free to advertise your affairs- now that's ridiculous!

[josephrl82]

Yes it is true... .as a society we make tons of excuses for bad behavior. Murdered someone? Not their fault, they have a mental illness and didn't know any better... .a few years in a mental institution should do the trick. This phenomena IMO is related to 99% of lawyers giving the other 1% a bad name. No, but really it does blow donkey balls... .and not good donkey balls, but like the bad ones.

Sorry, I tend to use humor to help me through pain and I'm currently dealing with my uBPDexgf (only ex as of 5 days ago) and she does all the same ___. Not that she hasn't been my ex many times before, we have a recycling history. She would verbally assault me including calling me a p***y and that if I were any kind of man I'd just apologize and move on... .apologize for her concocted offenses which then were followed with every insult she could hurl at me and going out and hanging out with her "guy" friends.

Currently I am doing good with NC but I am bad in that I read her emails... .telling me how she is going to f**k this guy she has constantly threatened me with and how their texting is getting hot with him, thanking me for breaking up with her bc now she gets to f**k him and be with a real man... .smiley face blowing a kiss. So, yeah I get your Righteous Rage. And if you are anything like me, which it sounds you might look a little into this, you want justice. Justice says when someone does something wrong they should either own up to it and offer a sincere heart felt apology or be punished for it. THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN from a pwBPD. Nope nope nope. Only justice you'll get is in your mind... .remember that behind her waving emoji and vicious insults and care-the-eff-less attitude towards the injustices she has inflicted upon you there is a scared child inside an adults body that has no identity. This is the only solace you will get.

But yeah, I get mad! I get really mad at times when my uBPDexgf says and does the things she does... .because it effing hurts!  It's outright cruel and just plain mean. I've never treated anyone like that and I had never been treated like that ever.  I want her to feel the pain she is causing me... .and then I realize, oh yeah she does on a daily basis she just rarely shows that to anyone other than to the people closest to her and even that is rare.  I like to say she suffers from Psychopathic Borderline Personality Disorder with uncontrollable Narcissistic Rage... .it sorta makes me feel better.[/quote]

[josephrl82]

Currently I am doing good with NC but I am bad in that I read her emails... .telling me how she is going to f**k this guy she has constantly threatened me with and how their texting is getting hot with him, thanking me for breaking up with her bc now she gets to f**k him and be with a real man... .smiley face blowing a kiss. So, yeah I get your Righteous Rage. And if you are anything like me, which it sounds you might look a little into this, you want justice. Justice says when someone does something wrong they should either own up to it and offer a sincere heart felt apology or be punished for it. THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN from a pwBPD. Nope nope nope. Only justice you'll get is in your mind... .remember that behind her waving emoji and vicious insults and care-the-eff-less attitude towards the injustices she has inflicted upon you there is a scared child inside an adults body that has no identity. This is the only solace you will get. [/quote]
Wow!  I had to endure the same emotional abuse of having to hear her tell me about her having fked or wanting to fk other guys!  She even went as far as to send me screen shots of their sexual conversations!  Those are some blades that cut pretty fking deep man!