How do I regain control of the money?

[montenell]

I made the mistake of allowing my wife to control the money because when we got married she seemed to be the more detail oriented individual...   For a while it seemed to work with me making the money and her handling the bills.  Our credit improved and we bought a house etc,  but then over the years we began to get in more and more debt and I found out that she was opening credit card accounts without my knowledge.  I was a workaholic but I realized that my workaholic ways were doing more to enable her than to provide for my family.  I stopped working so many extra hours confronted her about her irresponsible behavior and received apologies after apologies...   Long story short we ended up filing bankruptcy which was a disappointment to both of us but a huge relief for me.  I've discussed the need for setting up a  budget with her but this either gets brushed off or becomes a power struggle.  I have two savings accounts that I put 100dollars in each time I get paid and yet I have no money in savings because she pulls it out to pay bills.  I have no way to hide and save money due to me trying to be the husband with no secrets but now I regret this and have no idea how to turn it around as she has access to everything.  She has said that when she feels bad she spends money and I know impulsive decisions are part of BPD...   She doesn't spend money on lavish things just nickels and dimes is into poverty. 

[teapay]

My W used to be good with our money early in our marriage.  I made good money, so being tight wasn't an issue.  However, as she descended deeper in BPD she used spending combined with other addictions and implusivity to damage us financially very badly.  Even years of talking about it, trying to budget innumerable ways (spreadsheets, Quicken apps, cash in envelops, other gimics) implusivity would rule the day.  Even when she tried to cut her spending, she still nickel and dimed us to death, even at tag sales and thrift store (the bowery and boxcars of spendaholics) and bringing home tons of cluttering crap.   Was she apologetic?  Yes, but alot of that was manipulation to keep the status quo.  I had to simply take over the finances.  I opened a separate account and dumped my check into it.  I transfer a certain monthly amount into a joint account for her expenses and that is all she gets.  I make sure the family says solvent and saves for future needs.  Does she like it?  No.   Am I happier?  Yes, very much so.  That was a big monkey on my back.  Getting it off helped me have more peace in the relationship and it didn't depend on my W doing anything.  I had the power to do it.  Hope this helps.

[formflier]

Tough situation.

Don't let it become a power struggle.  You have the power.  You control where it is deposited.

Give her clear choices and leave the ball in her court.

"Honey, here is the budget."  If you can live within this, we can continue on our current course.

If you bust the budget without my approval, I will deposit the money elsewhere and give you a pre-paid card for your expenses.

Stop talking about it.  Ball is in her court.  

If you do this, you must follow through if she busts budget.

Is this the biggest issue in your r/s?

FF

[montenell]

I like that idea...   Can't say if it's the biggest issue but it's a big one...   Hasn't always been an issue but it is the elephant in the room now

[teapay]

The money problems become very triggering to me as they got worse and she cold control it.  Now alot of those triggers are gone.  We're you have the power to remove things that trigger you it might be worth just doing it.  It might be painful, but like pulling a bad tooth, the constant ache of your own triggers will subside.

[Herodias]

I handled the money and my pwBPD had a credit card with a limit that I would pay off monthly. I also had a change jar and that was allocated his... .he could take it in and get cash when he wanted extra money. That's it. You can have allot of bills on auto-payment to make it easier on yourself. If you don't have a credit card, get a bank prepaid card that automatically reloads monthly to avoid a fee. That way she can only spend what is on the card. Now mine managed to try and open new credit cards all the time, but if you both filed bankruptcy, she may not be able to do that. They are calculating and will find a way to get money if they really want it, but this may be a start. Good luck ... .I was also called "controlling"

[Beacher]

I think you need to do what others say and simply deposit your check into a separate account. Since she has been so apologetic at least she is aware of it and you will not suffer repercussions too badly. Take a look at the monthly bills and only transfer that amount with some extra for her to soften the blow.

I too was worried about my ex's feelings too much and now I'm screwed. Even after the divorce he is still trying to control some things. Grrrrr

[SamwizeGamgee]

In a healthy relationship, this shouldn't be a problem that some planning and co-ownership of the problem wouldn't solve.  However, in an unbalanced BPD world, you have to "be the adult."  Sometimes to the point of conducting life like you're living with an adult toddler.  If it's your paycheck, you can divert some or most of your pay into account(s) that you own and control solely - use those to pay the essentials and save some for the rainy day.  Best kept hidden too. 

IF you go towards divorce, you'll disclose and likely split the accounts when it's time, but, to keep things going, this might be necessary. 

[formflier]

Hey, I think most guys are giving the same advice here and most of us see the future in the same way.  You control the money.

However, it is up to you to practice healthy relationship skills.  To give clear choices and to honor the choice of your partner.

This will likely be interpreted by her as "line in the sand".  That is her choice to interpret it in that way.  You can certainly ask her if she would like to listen to how you would intend her to interpret it, if she says she would like to listen, please share.  If not, keep it to yourself.


The basic elements would go like this.

1.  Money is important. (who can disagree)

2.  We can't run out or overspend (again, who can disagree)

3.  You appreciate the efforts she has made and that managing money is hard work.

Time for choices based on financial reality .

1.  She makes choice to continue working to get better and metrics are agreed on as to if she "keeps the lead in doing this".  (Such as, if you miss budget by over 5%, without both of us approving, direct deposit will change.)

2.  She can use to take a break and focus her efforts elsewhere, you value her and look forward to providing this "act of service" for her.


The ball is in her court.  :)on't give her a deadline to decided.  Let her know you "would appreciate" a response in a couple days.  After a couple days it's time to set a deadline.

Look at DEARMAN method in "lessons" on staying board.  Perhaps that would help.

At the end of all this, you  may be called controlling, she may claim you "took" it from her or that you didn't give her a choice.

Validate that you hear frustration etc etc.

Stay the course towards financial health.  Ultimately she will pick her own course.

FF

[Hmcbart]

I just went through this exact scenario last month.  I opened a new account and refused to add her to it. I would only deposit what was needed to pay bills while I was working on moving us to another state.  She was not happy about it at all.  Even when confronted with all the late notices and emails I got from bill collectors she refused to admit she was doing a horrible job of paying bills.  I make good money and there is always enough to cover the bills but she just wasn't paying them.  She also has a tendency to spend when not necessary.  Like when she could cook or clean the house on her own but instead eats out all the time and hired house cleaners to help keep it clean while we were selling it.  The kids got to the point where they were sick of eating out. 

Ultimately she went so far as to accuse me of cheating on her and that I wasn't adding her to the account because I was hiding something.  I finally gave her access to the account but she never even set it up.  I think she just wanted to make me give in.  Now that the house is sold and we are moving, I have complete control over our finances.  She has a little left in the other account but when it's gone she will have to go through me for more money.  I'm not giving her control of our finances ever again. 

I said all that but I also do believe in trying to make joint spending decisions.  What was said about nickel and diming to death it spot on.  I used to tell my friends that if I spent more that $300 she would jump my butt about it, but I could take out $50 per day for a month and she would never say a word. Funny I was embezzling from myself to keep the peace.  Also she is a stay home mom (s13 & s9) they are in school all day so she has time to cook and clean.  I do it when I'm home so it's not too much to ask. 

[formflier]

 

HMC,

Good to see you on here again... .hope the move works out. 

My move has been... .interesting... .

I may be getting ready to make a move on the finance side to consolidate more control under my name.  She has pretty much abdicated all responsibility for finances... .except swiping the card or handing over cash.

FF

[Hmcbart]

Thank FF,

I've been lurking for a while.  My W has almost completely lost touch with reality these days when it come to money.  I have pretty much given up on the intimacy, sex, and anything remotely affectionate.  I can't control those areas but the finances I can. Especially since I'm the only income.  W and kids will be here with me permantly the first week of July.  She is in for a rude awakening at some of the new rules that we will be living by.  Her spending being chief among them.  I still make good money but after finally paying attention to where it all seems to go, I'm done with that plan.  it's up to her to adapt to the new spending.  She can get on the program or she can get a job. I'm guessing she with get with the program versus the job, but I'm ok with either option.

[formflier]

   She can get on the program or she can get a job. 

Mine got a job, but is super resentful of it. 

Wants to act like single handily she is saving family. 

FF

[SamwizeGamgee]

   She can get on the program or she can get a job. 

Mine got a job, but is super resentful of it. 

Wants to act like single handily she is saving family. 

FF

How true!  Last year, our youngest started school. Leaving the full weekdays open for my stay-home wife.  When I asked if she was going to get a job to add to our finances, you'd think I was dropping her off at a slave trader ship.  She acted like this was the end of her meaningful life - after looking forward to being able to catch up with her hobbies and interests.  Well, I cut her "allowance" (fun money that was just a perk) and she eventually got a small part-time job.  And, even when she works only a day or two per week, and only 4-6 hours - you'd think she was facing economic ruin and was slaving away and sacrificing her very soul to provide for her kids, and how she has no money, and we all hear about how she only has (x) dollars left to her name, and she had to buy (x) so can't afford (y) because only daddy has "His" money... .Anyway, drama, drama, manipulation. 

Rant over

[formflier]

That's a good rant.

Before we moved, wife said she was happy to get career and work full time as teacher.  She is good at it.

After we got here she "forgot" the conversation and said she would "temporarily" work until I got a job.  

Plus the job she took was "almost" full time and was supposed to lead to full time.  Basically she is bringing in $1000 per month.  Was supposed to get to know principal(s), do networking and then "poof" would be in a regular teaching position at roughly $40k per year.  

Well, "they" don't like her, blah blah.  She has applied for a few things, but from what I have seen, the plan has not been followed.

My finances are a bit unique with real estate and other things, but to make it easy.  


I bring in about $7500 per month.  Solid... .no lower.  Many months you can add an extra couple grand.

Other money comes in randomly.

To listen to her, the $1000 per month she brings in has kept us from going hungry or possibly being on the street.

Sigh... .

FF

[Dutched]

Just seen this topic. A long time ago I posted this, it might be handy.

What I hear/read is that you ASAP must get back in control, no matter how or what!

If you don’t, consequences will be by far worse! Think about that, think about years and years to come to live very sober in order to pay your debts!

And… (as you will be blamed anyway…) will your partner accept “such a lousy life”? I doubt it.

I am very direct maybe, but no offence for you or your situation!

Please try to rationalize matters

#Gather your bank statements / credit card info, bills etc over the last 12-24 months!

#Use Excel; per month incoming and outgoing (house/insurances/car/cloths (per family member, etc)

#Print it and back it up by statements, etc.

#Prepare your “case” well, handle it as a normal business meeting

# Make a 2nd sheet, based on sheet #1, and make that one balanced!   

A sheet that keeps you out of shortcomings, a budget to stick to.

AND prepare on that a monthly transfer to a savings account (future/car/unplanned events).

Have your figures ready for that! No matter what, please remind that! You decide

#Next, the meeting

Create a nice atmosphere! As even when you will calmly “confront” her, be prepared for distraction (I don’t believe it / you made a mistake / you bought that / etc.). All the twists as we know.

So:

# Ask questions (!)

Do not question her 2 pairs of shoes per month (get it? ) only the TOTAL of cloths.

DO ask how WE can change spending on X (so it will be HER idea(!), but guard your boundaries!

# Make notes of her ideas and immediately adjust your printed copy ( sheet #1 )! Immediately!

#Indeed as she is confronted with facts, prepare for upheaval, deflecting, not taking responsibility.

AHA, responsibility, now were are getting some where!

You, in a direct and firm way must set the boundaries, as you proved she has a hole in her hand

(you know the circular arguments in the song “there is a hole in my bucket” from Harry Bellafonte?)

# Now the SURPRISE, you prepared a 2nd sheet, a well balanced one!

A sheet that keeps you out of shortcomings, a budget to stick to.

# Don't fall for any accusations as you come up with the 2nd sheet.

# Don’t  justify why YOU did it.  Just, ‘as a team we have to manage our finances’.   



# While sitting together compare both sheets and “discuss” both briefly (remember your 2nd sheet is anyway the outcome!),  discuss…, adjust some - minor- amounts, have a short pause… (you thought X, she X1. Stick to your X, ONLY allowing MINOR change towards her X1 - to keep it on speaking terms - )   

# Remember every spending proposed needs a saving, you can't afford shortcomings anymore.



Now, this far, do NOT allow any details your partner brings up to distract you.

THAT is very important, as pwBPD are masters to turnaround responsibility and guilt.

# As an announcement you will tell her that a 2nd bank account will be opened. Stick to that, no discussion.   

A 2nd bank account for daily living costs only. THAT will be the account for her to manage!

An account on both names, with NO credit line; very important

Tell her, and tell her to stay away from the “main account” unless discussed!

# Thank her, praise her for her cooperation and, kiss her, hug her.

# Then you retreat and finalize what was agreed!

# When finalized, SHOW her, SHOW her the outcome, as proof, as validation… as she must ‘feel’ her input, her part of being in control.



# As from now, check every bank statement, etc.!

#Make her see that you check it (if asked why, for “us” for our family, our future).

Let her see that you are in control, your boundary will not be violated!

# Stick to it and once a month create a nice atmosphere in order to talk about the progress (yes, emphasize the positive, as pwBPD are prone to receive compliments, like an 4 yr. old).

# set mutual goals, summarize each subject AND make notes for the next month.