More stuff... Possibly good news? Maybe?

[obliv326]

So I posted this a couple days ago and didn't get a response, so I started a new topic. If you haven't been keeping up with my story, it's probably a lot like what most people here say... .I met someone online, strong connection, they started pulling away, etc . We had a couple bad episodes and I blamed myself, and eventually we got to where we are now. A friend of mine called her out for how she treated me, and I had met someone, so she retreated and decided she needed "silence" from me and everyone else in her life to do some "self reflecting". She said I might hear from her again... .Most likely eventually, she said, but she needed to see how she felt. That was 2 weeks ago... .If you really want to read the whole sordid story be my guest.

So, there's a little news... .

I've been giving her all the space she wants. It's tempting to want to talk and tell her I miss her but I know the engulfment thing is at play and the only way around and out of that is to let her recycle through.

However, something kind of good happened. The other night, she posted something on social media that seems like a solid bit of reflecting. She talked about how hyper sexuality is a symptom of OCD, and that she is pretty sure it's something that has plagued her all her life (to anyone outside of her head, that's pretty clear). She talked about how she has never really ben able to find any kind of satisfaction in that, though, but what she has neve realky had is real emotional and physical affection, and that she may have been missing out on something better.

I feel like this is referring to me, potentially. I made it very clear that I wanted to know everything about her, inside and out. She even referred to the fact that my affection was something that had been a little overwhelming. But it's pretty clear that she is aware of it, and it seems like she's even considering it. And I'm kind of impressed by the reflection. It seems a fairly honest and healthy bit of knowledge she's found there... .And one that will push her away from the other guy, since he was very clearly a "sex first" person.

In the meantime I'm trying to improve myself and not dwell on it too much. Also, she doesn't know that I'm aware of this particular outlet. She's not hiding it, but she doesn't know that I'm aware that she writes there so this wasn't written just for me to see. So it seems like she's a least doing some things to step in the right direction.

Anyway, if anyone can shed some light here id be really appreciative.

Thabks

[livednlearned]

Any reason why she doesn't know you know about this outlet?

She doesn't want you to know?

You don't want her to know?

[obliv326]

She never told me about it. It's not a very well known social

Media outlet so she assumes I'm not familiar with it. I don't think she would want me tol now about it, because she has posted stuff there that I've found pretty upsetting. But the point is that I think this shows a good direction in her thinking.

[livednlearned]

Do you feel comfortable saying how you found out she was posting there?

[obliv326]

Sure. She had written some poetry that she sent to me. I liked it, so I did as search to see if she'd written more and found some on this site. I'm not sure why this is the focus of the discussion

[livednlearned]

Relationships are built on trust. Mistrust is a fundamental part of a BPD person's belief system. It is not just that she trusts some people some of the time, and then doesn't. Or that she feels trust and then worries she will lose it. It's that she has never experienced trust. She has never had the experience of having her needs met by a trusted other, parent or partner and probably not with friends, either. The tragedy is that she seeks out people and situations who perpetually let her down because it checks all the criteria in her belief system about the unreliability and fundamental untrustworthiness of people. They are untrustworthy, and so is she, because that is what people are.

She's done a few things that really betrayed my trust. She has lied about things... .She told me once that she would lie to spare my feelings, and I told her not to. She later agreed that she wouldn't lie... .and was lying during that conversation. She has also done things that I consider a breach of trust. Then became hostile and dismissive when I tried to bring it up and discuss it.

She will continue to do things that betray your trust because you are not trustworthy for her either. For one, you have your own needs that she is not equipped to handle when she is struggling so desperately to meet her own. Hers are very primal and necessary to survival. She may have more narcissistic coping mechanisms than straight up BPD, which means she needs a constant supply of attention, both positive and negative. Unfortunately, it may be hard for her to tell the difference between positive and negative because her belief system does not include a healthy example of trusted relationships. Not being able to trust means getting her needs met in other ways, and it sounds like sex is one of those ways, often from men who treat her badly that she cannot trust.

In the midst of all this distrust and evidence of lying, you look for clues as to what she really thinks or feels, and have hopes that she might find you trustworthy. You might even be convinced that she should trust you. Yet, she never shared the site with you, which would suggest she wanted to have it be a private place. If there is no issue here, then it would be fairly easy to tell her that you know she has a place where she shares intimate feelings, and you have been reading them for a while, and have only just now decided to tell her.

This is not a judgment on you, only to point out that one of the most fundamental issues (lack of trust) is playing out here, and it seems you are hoping that her lying and inability to trust justifies your own. It happens.

In an NPD/BPD relationship, you have to be the healthy partner to a degree you may not ever have been pushed to experience. Saving a relationship of this nature means stepping into some painful revelations about our own actions so that we can even recognize what healthy means. Without it, the dynamic remains toxic. She does not have an example of what it is she is going for. You have to do that work, and not for her, but for you. One of the first steps is to get clear about boundaries because she has none and yours are likely weak. That is part of the unhealthy bond that we try to focus on here, and break. Healthy boundaries are key to saving these relationships.

This means being very candid with yourself about the nature of the relationship, too. She lies, you know she lies. She lied when being confronted for lying. Her defense mechanisms are powerful and unlikely to change whether confronted or not. As she has demonstrated to you, her way of coping is to avoid painful realities, so any confrontation will only push her further away. And for what? She has no record of what it means to be trustworthy, not from her family (presumably) and not from people who say she can trust them.

Being in a LDR protects you from knowing the extent of what she does to get her needs met. Her behavior is not to hurt you, it is to be able to function, period. What she wrote on her (perceived) private place on the Internet does not sound like it is about someone else, it sounds like it is about her.

These relationships hurt, a lot. Many of us have codependent traits, which means feeling superior when someone is in a one-down position. It's not something to be proud of, and it takes a lot of strength to see the shadow side to what many of us consider "helping." On her part, fear of engulfment is being hypersensitive to the controlling and manipulation that goes on when someone simultaneously "helps" and holds down someone weaker. Only when we recognize that we're doing this can we change it and replace it with something healthier that doesn't trigger coping and defense mechanisms, ours and theirs.

BPD is a belief system, and a very tragic one. You, and others like you in her world, are part of that belief system. Without trust, there cannot be love, only needs that get met. When she is caught lying and punished for it, all it does is confirm that her belief system is accurate. It confirms that she is a victim persecuted for behaving in the same untrustworthy ways others have always behaved toward her.

The reason we focus here on our behaviors is because many of us find something in dysfunctional relationships that are painfully familiar. This is not to say whether one side is behaving worse than the other, or one partner is right and the other is wrong. It is to start doing the work to get ourselves to a healthy enough place that we have the authentic strength to not be emotionally injured in these relationships. And with a lot of work and effort, to model something for our BPD loved ones that manifests for them what they have never had. It won't cure them, it may however give them a degree of emotional scaffolding to do much scarier and more difficult work if and when they ever feel ready. If that happens, it's simply a bonus and can't be the goal, otherwise we focus too much on what they are doing and not enough on our own side of the street.

[obliv326]

Wow. That wasnt meant to be judgemental? I'd hate to see when you mean to be itherwise

[an0ught]

Generally it is very good that she is at least aware that she is at times behaving in a way that is not healthy for her (by her own assessment). Doing things in all areas of life that are not conductive is a hallmark of pwBPD. The good thing about reflection is that it can be self validating. The problem with reflection however is that it hard to not judge yourself. When judging themselves, pwBPD judge b&w which then keeps them stuck allowing them not to make the behavioral changes.

I don't think she would want me tol now about it, because she has posted stuff there that I've found pretty upsetting. But the point is that I think this shows a good direction in her thinking.

Your insight in her thinking may be valuable for you. But then it is also problematic for you following her into her inner space. Boundaries in these relationships are vital. When we have partners here on the board (trying to avoid it but it has happened) then we strongly encourage them not reading each others posts. Some degree of separation, detachment and focus on / accountability for actual behavior rather than thinking is critical for stabilizing the emotional sea saw.

I've been giving her all the space she wants. It's tempting to want to talk and tell her I miss her but I know the engulfment thing is at play and the only way around and out of that is to let her recycle through.

An restart the relationship as it was before? Know what you know now is there a way to stop the game playing and cycling? How long are you willing to wait? What sort of behavior may you accept for some time? What are you willing to say and take risks (rejection, termination) with it? Where do you draw the final line?

[obliv326]

I agree that it's good she's aware.

I did find out that a few weeks back, right after I told her I had met someone else, she did the exact same crap she did before. I was trying to patch things up with her after our big mess, and I made a grad gesture and gave her money for a plane ticket.

She bought the ticket, never told me when she was coming, and while she was here she got together with the jackass she met on my birthday. I had told her that she didn't have to see me, since it was really so she could come down and visit friends and go to the renaiassance faire, which she loves to do. I did tell her, though, that I was not okay wit her seeing that guy. If I was going to pay for her to come down I was not okay with my generosity being used to perpetuate something whose only existence is as a slap in my face. So of corse she lies to me and says she has no intention of doing it, then goes ahead and does whatever she wants.

I'm torn between saying exactly how I feel about her, which is pretty much that I think she is an absolute piece of garbage, and trying to not take it personally, even though it really couldn't be more of an insult to me. And I know it's her BPD, but frankly, if she is incapable of having enough honor and decency to keep from taking money from someone then using that to slap them in the face, frankly maybe she deserves to be called out and feel shame. I know shame is at the heart of BPD, but in this instance, she doesn't feel enough shame, because what she did is inexcusable and nearly unforgivable.

At the same time the reflection she did came after her doing this crap, so maybe, just maybe, she is realizing how wrong she is. And I don't want to step in and point out the obvious to her and then become the bad guy. Mainly, if she is leaning toward taking some responsibility for her actions at all, then that's a good thing. Also, if I do go after her, then I know that what is going to happen is that she will do whatever makes her feel better, and that will be to go off and do something idiotic and destructive and probabky involving that guy. This may sound awful, but I think self reflection is going to make her feel worse, and she deserves to feel as bad as she possibly can. She deserves to feel completely worthless and ashamed because of what she did. It is inexcusable, and it has torn me apart, and I shouldn't be the one paying for this. I paid for the freaking plane ticket. I shouldn't have to feel like crap bc she has bad taste and no honor. She deserves to feel that.