Trying Not to Take the Bait

[Verbena]

Backstory:  AFter nearly 34 years of marriage, I am divorcing my husband.  I filed on June 7 and am anxiously awaiting a closing date on a loan I'm taking to buy him out so I can stay in the house.  He is still living here.  He won't leave until he gets his money. 

I printed a copy of the temporary orders my attorney e-mailed me, put them in the room where my husband sleeps, and waited for a response. I didn't get one, of course.  So a couple of days later I asked my husband if he had read the document.  He said "yep" and then walked away.  That was Saturday and now it's Monday. 

We had already discussed the details of what was going into these temporary orders (who gets what, the amount of the loan I am taking out to pay him for his portion of the house, etc.).  I am guessing that the part of the document he may be having trouble with is the move-out date. 

Because he originally told me (adamantly) that he was NOT buying a home for himself, I instructed my lawyer to put into the temporary orders that he would have 2-3 weeks to move out once my loan closes and he gets his money.  I figured he could get himself into an apartment easily in that time frame. He rejected this saying, "I'll leave when I can."   After some mind games over what his plans actually are, he finally let me know that he will be buying a home, not renting. 

I suggested he could have ninety days after the closing to allow him to have time to buy a home, close on it, and move out.  In hindsight, that was WAY too long.   I can barely tolerate him still living here as it is.  He rejected this idea anyway, saying that I had other motives for allowing him this much time.  He said he wanted to find a house right away and get out as soon as possible after the closing.

Hey, works for me. 

The temporary orders say that he has ten days to move out from the date of the closing. Since he won't talk to me, I don't know if he has a problem with this or not.  I do know that he is pretty upset that I insisted he get my name off our joint credit card since he is running up debt like nobody's business. 

My question is this:  How do I handle his refusal to discuss this really important document that he needs to sign? 

[Meili]

Your lawyer is probably the best person to ask this. I can guarantee you that this isn't the first time that they have had to deal with this situation.

[Verbena]

The lawyer has already told me that if he doesn't sign it, we will have to have a hearing before a judge.  There is no deadline on this form that he must sign although my loan closing should be in three weeks.  Of course, I was told that three weeks ago. 

My first instinct is to not mention it to him again.  He seems to enjoy making me have to come to him with requests--and then ignoring me.  On the other hand, I need him out.   He has to sign this first and I have to close my loan for that to happen. 

Should I give him a deadline myself?  Just wait it out?  This is so frustrating. 

[formflier]

Does he have his own lawyer?

You need to structure the deal so that the law of natural consequences pushes him towards what you want.


Natural consequences is not you saying or doing anything.

Put in the document that he gets a small amount of money and the rest goes into escrow.  The condition to get that money is that he has ownership of a home or renting a place AND HAS MOVED OUT AND SIGNED QUIT CLAIM

If that wording is not in there now.  Put it in and send him another document.  Don't worry... .he won't discuss it.

This is not about the relationship, this is about leverage and you being smart.  If he gets all his money and then assumes a passive aggressive stance Your life will be a living hell

You know this man's character.  You know the likelihood that he will do this.  I'm saying it is very high.

Verbena,

You are making big changes in your life and being more assertive.  My guess is there is a part of you that is reluctant to be "mean" or is confused by "mean" and "assertive".

There is nothing "nice" about what you are doing.  No need to apologize.  Be smart for you.

Why on earth would you ever give this man what he wants, without getting what you want?  Money/him out

Escrow means the money is out of your control.  You can't touch it, unless he fails to meet his obligation.  He can't touch it, unless he does his obligation.

Please don't back down on this.

FF

[formflier]

Oh... .I didn't answer your question.

Don't talk to him any more about it.

You did the right thing by getting a verbal that he got it.  At that point you are done.

You are severing the relationship, but still wanting or expecting a "relational" type conversation about the process and paperwork of severing the relationship.  A "normal" person might be able to pull it off.  He is not.

     

FF

[GaGrl]

Right. What FF said.

[Verbena]

Changing the orders now to say he must have already moved out before he gets the full amount  is totally different to what he and I agreed to and totally different from what the orders say.  So I hesitate to completely change the direction we're going.  If he signs it, then he gets his money in three weeks (when loan closes) and ten days or less later HE IS GONE.  He will be required to sign a quit claim at closing and house will be in my name.  He will not get ANY money until he signs the orders and that quit claim at the closing. 

FF, he does not have a lawyer and has refused to get one.  I actually think he will sign the document because he wants his money. He's going to need it for his credit card debt he has incurred lately if nothing else. The question is WHEN he will sign it and how long he wants to draw this out.  I want it signed asap so that when the loan closing is set, there will be no question about what will happen from that point on. He wants to play games and wait as long as he can, making me wonder if he will, indeed, sign it.  

As hard as it is for me, I am going to keep my mouth shut about him signing it.  This may be one of his last chances to play his games with me, and I would be foolish to think he won't take advantage of that.  The end result is that he will be gone soon, and I have to keep reminding myself of that. 

 
 

[formflier]

OK... .it's not what I would want for you... .it's not the "best".  But a signed order and a quit claim should set you up to have a successful eviction action if needed

Perhaps I've worked with lawyers too long (sorry to all lawyers out there... .) but I think worst case and then back up to what I'm doing now and try to protect.

He will have no claim to property because of quit claim and he will have legal obligation to leave in x number of weeks post closing.  So, you will need to be ready to send him certified return receipt letter the very day after he overstays and begin that action.

Make sure you are aware of eviction law in your state... .talk through how that will go... .if you need to go there.

FF

[formflier]

Do you mind sharing how much you will be paying him?  No big deal if you want to keep it private, but I hate to be thinking $100k when you are really giving him $50k.

Trying to keep my advice in perspective.

I think you are going to be ok with this.  I'm the type that always wants to improve something.

FF

[patientandclear]

Hi Verbena.  This seems simple to me.  I think you do need to communicate with him one more time and am not sure why, other than relationship dynamics issues, you are reluctant to do so.  Your communication should be: "to move forward with our agreed resolution of issues with respect to the house, both transfer of money and continued residency, you need to sign this document.  Please do with by [DAY--I SUGGEST 48 HOURS]. If I don't have a signed copy by that time, I'll be setting a court hearing.  Thanks in advance."

State what you need.  Give him a short but reasonable time to comply.  Say what you will do if he doesn't that you absolutely can and will enforce.  Then enforce it.

I think framing this issue as "taking the bait" is using a continued relationship lens, rather than a detachment lens.  You need the doc signed and him out.  You should do what you need to do to accomplish that.  Who cares if he does or does not want you to talk with him again or ask him again?  You need to do what you need to do.  And request only what you can and will immediately enforce a consequence for if he does not comply.  Always have a plan for how you will accomplish what you need without his cooperation.

An analogy: my exH (not the man I am on these boards about) used my desire for childcare help as a manipulation lever.  "I'll take her to school IF you give me $40 and use of your car."  So I made sure I NEVER asked him to help with childcare without having a plan B, which might be that I would cancel my other plans and do it myself.  Under NO circumstances would I negotiate with an emotional terrorist!  No negotiations.  You say what you want, the course that would be easier and somewhat cheaper for you (by not requiring lawyer action and a court hearing).  If he doesn't do it, you put plan B into effect.  That simple.

[Verbena]

FF, he is getting 72.5.  I'm borrowing a little extra to replace the fence before it falls down.  He lost interest in this house years ago although he continued to buy supplies and products for home improvement projects and stockpile them.  Some of those supplies I have sold off because I don't want them and he will never use them.  I already do pretty much everything around here, inside and out.  He's very handy, much more so than I am, but I will just have to suck it up and hire out what I can't do--like the fence.  

My theory is that the more I've done to make this house nice (I'm a retired teacher and now focus on interior design work), the more he has detached from the house.  He is jealous of my decorating talents and  has never complimented or acted appreciative of any of my hard work around here.  In fact, it visibly bothers him if anyone compliments me on this house.

I am coming out with the better deal in the sense that I get to stay in a very nice home for a  reasonable monthly payment--taxes and insurance included--and I don't have to move.  He will have to move twice and will likely end up in something that needs a lot of updating--not that he'll ever do it.  I really don't think he cares much about how his new place looks.  Our daughter, who has great style and design sense, can help him fix up his new house if she wants.  Or, he can hire me for double my normal fee.  

patientandclear, I was considering doing the very thing you suggest--bringing it up again with a deadline and a statement of what will happen next if he doesn't sign. I guess you're right that I just avoid dealing with him because I know how he will react.  

Good example about childcare regarding your ex.  I think that's why it took me decades to finally say I wouldn't live like this anymore and insist on counseling.  I knew that he would refuse and that I'd need a Plan B.  

[formflier]

Verbena,

I think you have the way forward laid out for you on the legal front.  Short and to the point.  Have your mind made up ahead of time that you are ready to proceed with whatever he chooses.

Switching gears.

What is it about the fence that would make you want to hire it out?  Watch some youtube videos and practice on a section or two. 

If you are really into emotional warfare (in a good way)... .do it while he is still there.  I dare you!   

Impact divers are very affordable now and make fastening virtually effortless.  And they make a really cool sound when driving a screw.

FF

[Verbena]

FF, the fence is far beyond my skills. It's rotten, about to fall over, very crooked, and needs new posts set in concrete. There are also about thirty giant red-tipped photinias that are pushing against it and must be dramatically trimmed back. It's a real mess. It's also 100 degrees here. No way could I handle all that by myself.

I wouldn't mind fixing one spot on the other side of the property though. He already bought the boards to do it months ago. They're piled up outside the shop. I would gladly screw those boards in his presence.

[formflier]

Got it... totally understand.  I hate setting fence posts... .

FF