How to answer this text? And advice on divorce...

[Ceruleanblue]

Well, I did it! I called police on him on Monday(I think, it's all such a blur), because he was threatening to throw me out, again. I'd stayed gone most of the day Sunday because of his rages, and also Sunday I went and talked to his Dad. His Dad admitted "something is wrong with BPDh", and that for my safely and happiness, my daughter and I should leave. He was really saddened because he likes me, and I think he was sort of sad for BPDh too.

When I got home either Monday his Dad had obviously asked to talk to BPDh and it sent BPDh into even more of a rage. He demanded to know if I'd talked to his family(I was saying goodbye, and hoping they try to get him some help, as his DBT isn't working), and I admitted I had. He started telling me to get out, and being verbally abusive. I walked outside, and called the police. I WISH I'd called all the other times he actually got physical with me. They came, tried to get BPDh to leave, he refused, so I left. I'm so proud of myself. I finally had enough.

I hired a lawyer, a good one, recommended by my therapist. I also tried to get a PPO, as the police officers told me with my fear of him, and the past abuse it should be no problem. It was, I got turned down for the PPO. He's in the house, and I'd like to get him OUT. Just for the duration it takes for the divorce. He moved me/daughter away from family or people we could stay with. HE has four grown kids he could crash with, and his siblings and Dad are all local. I've gotten hired and will be training at a local place, and my daughter has her job there too. It's a long commute for us. I NEED that time to be packing and moving.

Today, he asked me why I'm not answering his calls or texts. I'm afraid to, frankly. He's bee so awful to me, and I think he's probably even angrier now. He's lost control of me.

How do I deal with all this? I'd like him to let me stay in the house until the divorce(60 days), and I don't know if I should respond to his texts. My therapist wrote some texts on tuesday that I sent him, and they were only in regards to me needing to be at the house THAT DAY, and could he stay gone until 8:00 pm. He was going to be at his daughters for dinner anyway(I won't miss those angry girls, I wasn't even going to be allowed at this "dinner". He said probably he'd be gone until 8:00... .of course he wouldn't just say he would be. My therapist is so disgusted with him, and so am I.

Answer his texts or no? Any chance I can get him out of the home for just 30-60 days?

[Ceruleanblue]

The only good thing about all this is: I am not feeling super sad or panicky like last time! I almost feel like I've been let out of a cage. I feel relief, and actually pretty strong. I'm hoping it doesn't all hit me later, but I think I'm going to just keep feeling better and better... .

[Notwendy]

Wow, this is progress and you deserve a pat on the back for sticking up for yourself and making plans to take care of you!

So please understand that there is way more positive to my post when I explain an area of concern.

This isn't about who is right, who is wrong, or who is doing the right thing. Your reasons for wanting him out of the house are solid. But the error I think is in expecting that he will do the right thing or see it the way you see it.

Because of his disorder, he is likely to see himself as a victim, and when an abusive person is in victim mode - they try to fight back and feel justified in doing so. They can feel out of control so their response is to take control of what they can.

To your H, that could mean " I won't let her make me move".

By making any of your plans contingent on your H doing anything- whether is is leaving the house or anything else, you are placing some element of your plans in his hands, and he can control it.

If I were in your shoes, I would take the entire matter into my own hands. I know this is difficult, but by doing this, I would be in control. If I wanted to not live with him, I would find some other place to live. Because if I tried to make him move- I place the choice to move or not in his hands.

I speak from experience- not with a spouse but with a mother with BPD. Despite her behavior, from her perspective, she truly believed she was a victim of her family. Asking her to do anything while she was in victim mode was almost certain that she would not do it, just to get back at us. It didn't matter if the request was logical, reasonable, or the right thing. Her purpose, at that moment, was to hurt us back ( for what she believed we did to her) and she used anything she could control to do it.

I learned as a teen that anything I wanted to do, or what was important to me, had to be arranged so that she had nothing to do with it. I went to college, and she controlled whether Dad gave me tuition- I chose a state college and got a job so that, in the event that they might cut me off, I could finish.

Even now, if I visit, and I stay with her, she can take control of what I do in her house. If I borrow her car when I visit, she can decide at any moment not to let me. If I stay with her, I keep my suitcase packed and I drive my own car. I have also stayed at hotels so I can leave in an instant if she dysregulates with me. The point is- I make nothing I want to do contingent on her choices.

This isn't about who is right or wrong, or who is deserving. I think you have gone above and beyond to try to be a good wife, but your H can't see things this way. I too have made extraordinary efforts to be kind to my mother, but she sees herself as being my victim. The drama triangle drives this.

So, I think your request for him to leave is reasonable. The problem is expecting him to be reasonable.
But you are doing great!

[Fian]

My wife has watched a ton of ID shows where a husband kills his wife during this stage in a divorce.  This is the time to protect yourself and make sure that you aren't around him alone.

[HopefulDad]

Congrats on taking real action towards a better life for yourself!

As for the whole living situation, the law can be frustrating (e.g. denied the PPO) and even when it works in your favor, it is often very slow.  In the meantime, you need to make decisions based on the current reality: He's not leaving the house.  You need to decide if you can live in the same house with him and if not, then you need to leave.  I had to make this same decision and I did ask my BPDxw to leave, she said no, so I left because I needed the physical separation just so I could sleep without my stomach turning in knots.

From a legal perspective, I do recommend if you are contemplating leaving, check with your lawyer about any financial consequences of moving out.  Make sure you explain everything to your lawyer (e.g. when the house was bought (year, pre- or post-marriage), whose name is on the deed/loan, how many people live in the house, etc.) so your lawyer can explain if you are inadvertently giving up a partial or complete claim on the home.  Whatever your lawyer's answer is can help you in your decision.   In my case, knowing I was giving up nothing regarding ownership made my decision to leave much easier. Hopefully it's the same for you.

[Ceruleanblue]

Well, we rent the house, so no worries there. BPDh makes really good money, but has zero to show for it, and has really overextended to the point that he can't make the bills.

I am currently living with my parents, and we will begin working on the walk out basement: two bedrooms, two baths, living room, and kitchen dining room. It's filled with their hoarded stuff, and needs fully renovated, but ANYPLACE would be preferable to the environment I was living in. Sure, we had nice things, but that was because BPDh was living beyond his means. It's the lesser of all his symptoms. The rages, anger, dysregulations, and blame were the worst.

I just keep thinking that I should be feeling worse than I am? Has it just not hit me yet? I have "moments", but on the whole, I'm doing great.

I am trying to make decisions that don't depend on him at all. I left because he refused to. I absolutely can't live with him now. I tried that, thinking I could hold out and move when he goes on a business trip in a few months, but he's recently escalated, then add him going off his meds, and it's been really ugly. What's weird, is these two awful days came right on the heels of him saying I could come back into the bedroom, and sleep with him. Like that's such an honor!

My therapist says BPDh is still trying to control things, and I agree. I'm just going to let my lawyer deal with him. I'm disappointed about the PPO. I'm not feeling I need to go totally no contact, but I only want to do text when it's absolutely necessary: like when my therapist helped me write texts asking him how long he'd be gone so I could pick up some stuff. Of course he made that difficult too. He doesn't seem to understand that I DO NOT want to see him, or engage any more with him, and allow him to hurt me. I think he's shocked that I finally had enough?... .

[empath]

I'm glad you took the step, too.

As far as answering texts, I think your 'message' is that you need confirmation that he will be out of the house until 8; that's the only thing that I would say. That is the only thing that I would say. He will try to draw you back into interaction and distract you; don't be drawn back in. Also, having documentation of your interactions could be really helpful for you in the long run so texts and email are preferable. The less interaction that you initiate, the better.

Does he know where you are?

[Notwendy]

It is well known in DV cases that the time where the spouse leaves is the most dangerous. It is very triggering  to the abusive spouse. While their behavior is that of the aggressor, I can not stress enough that in that moment, they truly believe they are victims and are prone to lash out.

Please be very careful. It may not be safe to retrieve your belongings. These can be replaced, or retrieved later perhaps if they are with someone else. He may try to destroy them. But better to lose a belonging than to put yourself in danger.

[Fian]

Don't go alone is my advice.  Also, I would have suggested that you go when you know he is at work - don't announce in advance that you are going.

[byfaith]

I don't understand why if there was past abuse why you could not get PPO? I am ignorant here, so you can't even get an officer to be with you when you need to get your belongings out of the house?

I have never had to do this so that is why I am asking.

And it is awesome you are finding your freedom from this abusive relationship. I wish you the best.

[Panda39]

Just a couple of ideas... .

You might try getting some suggestions on how best to retrieve your things from your local DV center.  You might also see if you can get a police/sheriff escort when picking up your belongings. 

"I feel relief, and actually pretty strong."

I think you are feeling this way because deep down you know you are doing the right thing for you and that you can do it!

Panda39

[Ceruleanblue]

Yeah, I was thinking the PPO was sort of a slam dunk, as I'd listed all the past incidences of physical violence. I guess because there hasn't been any recently, is why they likely ruled that way. It's pretty sad that there has to be actual violence to get a PPO. I mean, there has been physical stuff in the past, and I was obviously afraid it could go there again. This was why the police said I needed to go get one, after having dealt with him.

The couple texts I sent to him were met with obvious control issues: "probably". In other words, he was gone, but refused to say he'd stay gone until 8:00. Because of this, my daughter and I grabbed what we could during that trip, and headed out way before that. I DID NOT want him showing up early, because who knows how awful he'd have gotten.

I've been going and getting my stuff when he's at work. I've taken someone with me every time, but that might not be feasible starting Monday. I'll be going there for job training, so my Mom or daughter can't really go with me, and it's too long a commute to go back and get them. He's just making this all so incredibly difficult, on purpose.

I totally agree though with not doing ANYTHING that counts on his cooperation. Thanks for your suggestions, and please keep them coming.

[HopefulDad]

As an aside, filing the PPO request may help for future issues.  Sometimes there is a hidden message by the judge, like "I can't really find reason to issue one now, but this request is noted.  Mr. Ceruleanblue, you better be on good behavior moving forward or else we won't just stop at a PPO next time."  Your STBX's lawyer hopefully relayed any such hidden message to him.

That being said, don't throw caution to the wind.  "Hey, I got scarred for life by the beating my ex gave me, but at least he's in jail now!" is no story anyone ever wants to tell.

[satahal]

Unfortunately, judges often don't believe women when they seek restraining orders. They see it has a tactic, especially when the couple is divorcing.

I'm guessing you don't feel panicked because you are relieved, you've made a decision, you're executing it and you're out from under his tyranny. The feelings will likely come in a few weeks when things calm down but l hope this period of calm serves you well in getting through the logistics.

Just to echo everyone - please be careful. This is a scary time and he may not have fully accepted that you're done, when it hits him, he could do something drastic.

Congratulations!

[Ceruleanblue]

Yes, the only thing I'm really kicking myself over is not actually reporting or pulling the plug one of those times I actually had bruises. I just kept thinking "don't do that to him", he's in DBT, and maybe it will kick in soon. Well, I finally realized that DBT, or the two times he went to anger management classes didn't work because HE doesn't really want to be better.

Regrets get me nowhere though, so I'm trying not to spend too much time on that. I let him go, and walked away when I'd finally had enough, and finally accepted that even with all my efforts to radically accept and modify my behaviors around him, weren't working.

I do hope that having record of my having tried for the PPO is good. I also have proof of the texts I sent, and how he dealt with them. My therapist said that is good to have, also. I don't think he'll try anything at this point, but I'm not taking any chances either. Plus, I just really don't want to be around him. It sure would be nice if he'd be more cooperative, as far as me getting my stuff, as I'm sure the police don't have time to stand around while I pack things up.

[satahal]

Yes, the only thing I'm really kicking myself over is not actually reporting or pulling the plug one of those times I actually had bruises. I just kept thinking "don't do that to him", he's in DBT, and maybe it will kick in soon. Well, I finally realized that DBT, or the two times he went to anger management classes didn't work because HE doesn't really want to be better.

Regrets get me nowhere though, so I'm trying not to spend too much time on that. I let him go, and walked away when I'd finally had enough, and finally accepted that even with all my efforts to radically accept and modify my behaviors around him, weren't working.

I do hope that having record of my having tried for the PPO is good. I also have proof of the texts I sent, and how he dealt with them. My therapist said that is good to have, also. I don't think he'll try anything at this point, but I'm not taking any chances either. Plus, I just really don't want to be around him. It sure would be nice if he'd be more cooperative, as far as me getting my stuff, as I'm sure the police don't have time to stand around while I pack things up.

Good idea - regret is useless.
Police are accustomed to watching people pack - please consider it.

[empath]

One of the reasons that keeping records of his calls and texts and other activities is a good idea is that 'stalking' is another form of DV and sometimes qualifies for TRO's.

I think this is part of radical acceptance, too: knowing that they aren't likely to 'get better,' especially if they don't want to, and accepting that we have a limit to how much we can take.

[Ceruleanblue]

I'm finding it hard to just ignore him, as it seems rude, but I'm doing it. I know he likely thinks I'm ignoring him to get even or some such negative thing. What's so funny is he used to ignore my texts and calls all the time, and I never did.

The police sort of told me that night that they don't have the manpower to have someone there the entire time I pack and move. This is another reason it would be so nice if he'd let me live there for a while, as he's staying at the house, and I'm the one moving out, so need to pack up. It's just another mind game, and him trying to control things. As you guys stated, I can't count on him to be anything other than what he's always been since the "real" him came out: angry, controlling, difficult and at times cruel.

I've debated on having my Mom ask him if he'd consider staying at one of his kids' house for a bit, but again, that is placing control on HIM. It's just that it would make things so much easier. I'm going to end up leaving so much behind, because I just can't pack, haul and bring it all. He's going to gain due to his bad actions, but at least I'll be free from the abuse, and that's priceless. No material item can compare with that. 

[satahal]

I'm finding it hard to just ignore him, as it seems rude, but I'm doing it. I know he likely thinks I'm ignoring him to get even or some such negative thing. What's so funny is he used to ignore my texts and calls all the time, and I never did.

The police sort of told me that night that they don't have the manpower to have someone there the entire time I pack and move. This is another reason it would be so nice if he'd let me live there for a while, as he's staying at the house, and I'm the one moving out, so need to pack up. It's just another mind game, and him trying to control things. As you guys stated, I can't count on him to be anything other than what he's always been since the "real" him came out: angry, controlling, difficult and at times cruel.


I've debated on having my Mom ask him if he'd consider staying at one of his kids' house for a bit, but again, that is placing control on HIM. It's just that it would make things so much easier. I'm going to end up leaving so much behind, because I just can't pack, haul and bring it all. He's going to gain due to his bad actions, but at least I'll be free from the abuse, and that's priceless. No material item can compare with that. 

You aren't rude at all. He's manipulating you and will do anything to bring you back to a state of engagement.

All he's got now are your things and the house - and so he will use them to the nth degree to hurt and control you. It sucks.

[Cat Familiar]

Cerulean, I'm glad you're freeing yourself from this abusive man. You are a kind person and you deserve kindness and respect.

I'm concerned about your safety as are so many of us in this community.  If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't trust spending a minute alone in that house since you don't know if he might show up unexpectedly and if he did, seeing you move might enrage him more than you've ever experienced before.

That said, I have some ideas for you when you retrieve your possessions from the house. I know your funds are limited, but this is the time to borrow money from your parents. Depending upon what you're moving, renting a U-Haul truck might be a good option. Also what about getting your daughter, mom and dad (if they're able), hiring high school kids (while school is still out),  enlisting friends, or going to a temp agency and move everything out at once. Spending a bit of money now and getting it all done will save you from replacing possessions and it will eliminate the stress you would feel if you prolonged the moving bit by bit.

You and your daughter could box up stuff and everyone else could load the truck. Many hands make quick work of a big project.

[MaybeSo]

Congratulations on much deserved freedom!

And stay safe.  When the wife leaves, it is the most dangerous time.  Play it very, very safe and focus on your own freedom.