Too validating to my daughter?

[ArleighBurke]

Validation: How much is too much?

I've been practicing validation on my 10yr old girl, partly for practice to get better at it, partly because she may have BPD and partly because I think validation as a general rule is a good way to relate to people.

But I'm stuck on enabling vs validation. Yesterday, she came home from school and started her homework. She's a great student - very studios, very motivated, perfectionist, but high strung, social anxiety. She asked me for help with a question. But her tone in asking made me wary straight away - it sounded like she was already very upset/teary/stressed - something. I tried helping her, taking a soft approach but she was just not in a great place. She would argue/snap at anything I said and wasn't trying.

I did validate a few times "I understand it feels hard - we can work through this together", "I know you want to get this done and I can see you are stressed. How about you get a drink of water then come back and we'll continue". She didn't want ANY break because she wanted to get it done. She was getting more agro as we went along. She SAID she was frustrated because she didn't understand it - but I don't think that was the reason. She was edgy when she first came to me, and her lack of trying or answering ever the most simply questions from me suggested she was just having an "off day". But she's stubborn and refuses to take a break. After she yelled at me for "not helping her" I did use a stronger voice to say "I know you are frustrated. I can see that. And I want to help work with you to do this. Talking like that makes me feel like not helping you. So you need to calm down. But I still think I maintened my calmness and softness.

We did finish it. She was supposed to go to her dance lesson 10mins later - but she cried and said she didn't want to go. I said things like "I'm not sure how you make yourself feel better - that's up to you to find out. For me, I know moving - being physical - helps. You LOVE dancing - I'm sure it'll make you feel better.". "Just moving may help. Walk down to your room and put your homework away, then come back and talk to me". It didn't help - she still felt crap. I left and took my other daughter to dance and came back 10mins later.

When I came back she was still sobbing. She said she didn't want to feel bad but didn't know how to feel better". Then she suggested we meditate together (which we've done a few times). So we did that and about 10mins in she stopped. And 15mins later she was perky again.

When I told my BPD wife about it all, my wife accused me of being too soft, with my softness "holding" my daughter in her bad place. She told me that I needed to let my daughter be upset for 5-10mins, then put my foot down and say "Right. Enough crying. You need to get it together now. I've paid for dance so you ARE going (even if I have to drag you)." I told my wife that I didn't think I comforted my daughter too much - that I do use sternness where needed. But she disagreed. (And told me that I was ignoreing her advice).

It's not like I sit on the bed cuddling my daughter for 30minutes until she's better. I listen, and hug, then *I* move on/away to do my own thing and let my daughter get herself better. At the same time, I believe she may have BPD (she's been diagnosed with General Anxiety Disorder which seems the same). My daughter went to a party a few weeks back in an indoor gym with 100's of other kids. She lasted about 15mins before she was completely overwhelmed with the noise etc and wanted to leave. She and I went to a quiet place to "cool down" for 10mins, but she didn't want to rejoin the party. My wife says I should have just forced her to rejoin. Yet I've also said (at times) "I know you dont want to X, but we need to" - like walking to school or going out to the shops so I don't think I'm too soft./

So where is the line? I look at my wife and think she is VERY invalidating to the kids. Is there a way to be TOO validating? Thoughts?
 

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Bright Day Mom]

You are doing a wonderful job validating your girl.  She is clearly reaching out for help "She said she didn't want to feel bad but didn't know how to feel better".  Is the family currently in therapy? I know docs generally do not dx children w/BPD and put them in other categories with BPD traits.  Let her know that you don't have all the answers to making her feel better either, but will work on it as a family.  There are many things that can help, dbt therapy, medication, effective communication, etc.   It is a matter of figuring out the right combo and working at it.  Once she feels better, depression lifts, she will enjoy dance class again.

We have learned that nothing will be accomplished when situations are escalated. So we insist on taking a step back and seeing what we can do to move forward.  I.E. what got her in the "mood" to begin with, push the homework aside and talk, what's going on.  We are the parent and we can take control, especially when they are so young.  And no, the "tone" is not tolerated... .discussions need to be civil and our kids need to be respectful. We take time outs until this can be done (sometimes we parents need a few min to collect our thoughts and cool down too). 

I wouldn't second guess yourself about validation, you are simply trying to understand your daughter's point of view/feelings.  Your BPD wife may see that as "being too soft" and that doesn't surprise me given her BPD.

[wendydarling]

Hi ArleighBurke

I agree with Bright Day you are doing brilliantly. Validation is a great skill and as you know there are many more skills and tools in our box, in time we learn when to use the tool at the right time ... .as validation seems to be the first skill we learn it maybe we use it too much and feel too validating as you say. However ... ."When I came back she was still sobbing. She said she didn't want to feel bad but didn't know how to feel better". Then she suggested we meditate together (which we've done a few times). So we did that and about 10mins in she stopped. And 15mins later she was perky again."

Well done AB, your 10yr old is able to suggest to you a skill you have taught her and share that moment with you to calm together. If she needs time out from dancing, its ok, to be in a mindful moment is great, use your listening skills as BrightDay suggests, stand back and be calm.

What other skills and tools are you learning and teaching your young daughter? Wisemind ... .distress tolerance ... .

The first tool we seem to learn is validation so I understand when you ask are you too validating, I think not, perhaps you have reached a learning curve in asking yourself that question, what next?

Enabling? ... .not sure if others agree, I wonder if we replace our former enabling self with the great tools we learn and use - ie no space left for enabling, hurray!

WDx

[Naughty Nibbler]

HEY ArleighBurke:   
I agree with WendyDarling and Bright Day Mom, you are doing a great job!

When I told my BPD wife about it all, my wife accused me of being too soft, with my softness "holding" my daughter in her bad place. She told me that I needed to let my daughter be upset for 5-10mins, then put my foot down and say "Right. Enough crying. You need to get it together now. I've paid for dance so you ARE going (even if I have to drag you)." I told my wife that I didn't think I comforted my daughter too much - that I do use sternness where needed. But she disagreed. (And told me that I was ignoring her advice).

I think there can be a downside to getting angry with a sensitive child.  I'm thinking that the start to the new school year has to bring some extra anxiety.  I can see how occasionally extra activities, mixed with homework problems, could be a bit overwhelming for a child. 

Perhaps a lesson for her to learn is that exercise can help you feel better.  Perhaps in a similar situation, you might suggest bringing up a dance video on YouTube and have her take a dance break at home.  Perhaps, it could convince her that a little dance break was valuable to break the mood.  Then, next time she might be more agreeable to go to dance class.