uBPDxw using SD's

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

First, a little background:

1. We live in the same neighborhood as my BF's uBPDx.
2. She and her BF often drive or walk behind our house and exhibit attention-seeking behavior. HOA here doesn't allow a privacy fence.
3. Communication usually comes from uBPDx's BF, even after my BF stated communication is between himself and uBPDx, not the BF.
4. He has recently told her "no" to her repeated requests he allow SD8 to be enrolled in a personal growth seminar (Landmark) and that he give up his time with SD8 for her to attend any and all other Landmark events at undetermined dates in the future.
5. It's become a pattern that as soon as my BF drops SD's off at their mom's for her weekends, texts/emails start rolling in from her and her BF, saying things to try to control him and our time.

Last weekend was child-free here. We enjoyed a nice dinner on our deck Sat. evening. There were a couple of cars that drove slowly by, but we ignored them. After we came inside and sat down to finish our drinks, we heard the doorbell ring. We looked at each other with that feeling of disgust and dread, just knowing it was uBPDx-related, even though he's told her after she showed up uninvited in the past that she is not welcome to just show up like that. The doorbell rang again -- and again and again -- becoming a constant ringing for quite awhile. He looked at his phone (that was on silent because you know, boundaries), and there was a text from uBPDx's BF saying that both SD's were on their way over to pick up SD8's blanket (which she very deliberately CHOSE to leave here because they take it away as punishment if she doesn't eat all of her food over there). Yeah, right, they're just going to send the girls walking across the neighborhood (they are too young for that and have never done that before, I doubt they could find it on their own). So, we knew uBPDx and/or her BF were near. After ringing the doorbell constantly for awhile, we heard the girls on our deck at the back door, knocking, crying, and screaming, ":)addy! DADDY! DADDY!" Then, back to the front door, laying on the doorbell with more screaming and crying. It was so, SOO hard for my BF not to answer the door. We did our best not to not show we were home. Because we have windows up high, even had to sneak, crawl upstairs carefully when we went to our bedroom.   The whole thing sucked for us. It was yet another reminder that we have little privacy from her and her bf. It must have been incredibly awful for my SD's.  When we get them back Wed. through the weekend, there will be some serious deprogramming to do.

The way we see it she put the girls up to that, and she's also trying to make my BF out to be a bad dad (but he's a wonderful dad). The way I see it is she is having the girls act out her craziness since if she did it (as she has in the past), we would pursue a restraining order. Any advice here? Is there anything we can do?

[BonusMom]

First, a little background:

1. We live in the same neighborhood as my BF's uBPDx.
2. She and her BF often drive or walk behind our house and exhibit attention-seeking behavior. HOA here doesn't allow a privacy fence.
3. Communication usually comes from uBPDx's BF, even after my BF stated communication is between himself and uBPDx, not the BF.
4. He has recently told her "no" to her repeated requests he allow SD8 to be enrolled in a personal growth seminar (Landmark) and that he give up his time with SD8 for her to attend any and all other Landmark events at undetermined dates in the future.
5. It's become a pattern that as soon as my BF drops SD's off at their mom's for her weekends, texts/emails start rolling in from her and her BF, saying things to try to control him and our time.

Last weekend was child-free here. We enjoyed a nice dinner on our deck Sat. evening. There were a couple of cars that drove slowly by, but we ignored them. After we came inside and sat down to finish our drinks, we heard the doorbell ring. We looked at each other with that feeling of disgust and dread, just knowing it was uBPDx-related, even though he's told her after she showed up uninvited in the past that she is not welcome to just show up like that. The doorbell rang again -- and again and again -- becoming a constant ringing for quite awhile. He looked at his phone (that was on silent because you know, boundaries), and there was a text from uBPDx's BF saying that both SD's were on their way over to pick up SD8's blanket (which she very deliberately CHOSE to leave here because they take it away as punishment if she doesn't eat all of her food over there). Yeah, right, they're just going to send the girls walking across the neighborhood (they are too young for that and have never done that before, I doubt they could find it on their own). So, we knew uBPDx and/or her BF were near. After ringing the doorbell constantly for awhile, we heard the girls on our deck at the back door, knocking, crying, and screaming, ":)addy! DADDY! DADDY!" Then, back to the front door, laying on the doorbell with more screaming and crying. It was so, SOO hard for my BF not to answer the door. We did our best not to not show we were home. Because we have windows up high, even had to sneak, crawl upstairs carefully when we went to our bedroom.   The whole thing sucked for us. It was yet another reminder that we have little privacy from her and her bf. It must have been incredibly awful for my SD's.  When we get them back Wed. through the weekend, there will be some serious deprogramming to do.

The way we see it she put the girls up to that, and she's also trying to make my BF out to be a bad dad (but he's a wonderful dad). The way I see it is she is having the girls act out her craziness since if she did it (as she has in the past), we would pursue a restraining order. Any advice here? Is there anything we can do?

[DreamGirl]

Why didn't he answer the door when he realized it was his daughters?

[BonusMom]

He didn't answer because of prior history with uBPDxw/m, we knew their uBPDm was instigating it, and we knew it would reinforce her crazy behavior.

[DreamGirl]

He didn't answer because of prior history with uBPDxw/m, we knew their uBPDm was instigating it, and we knew it would reinforce her crazy behavior.

So I'm just trying to understand a little bit better.

Crazy behavior ---- like going to your house unannounced? What happens in those instances? Conflict?

I'm just wondering if your boundary [limiting ex's access during time the kids aren't there] aligns with your values? You don't usually hide from the doorbell, right? If you could figure out a way to communicate what it is you want, accepting that she's a boundary buster willing to use the kids, and still not engaging in [whatever the crazy behavior is].

Hiding from your daughters when they come to the door would be really hard for anyone. Hard for them too if they thought you were home and were hiding from them.

[Panda39]

Boy, do I recognize this type of behavior   My SO and I experienced a lot of it early on in our relationship too.  When we met he was still in the FOG and had not yet developed the boundaries he has today. Our harassment was probably more via the phone than in person. 

Before their temporary court order he was putting money in the bank for his stbx and on Christmas Eve he was to make a deposit. He knew and planned to make the deposit but his uBPDxw called whining about the money not being in her account yet... .it was probably 9:02a the bank had just opened.  He told her he would put it in the account.  He went to the bank and left his phone at my place.  It rang a million times in a row... .no messages.  Then it rang and his older daughter left a message to put the money in the bank.  Then back to constant ringing... .my 16 year old son was so disgusted he put the phone under a pillow.

We had multiple dates interrupted by calls from his children and the ex, that he needed to take them somewhere to get something (she didn't/doesn't drive)... .this actually helped my SO later when the ex tried to alienate the kids from him, but that's a story for another day 

I know it probably felt kind of juvenile hiding in your own house but I totally understand why you did it.  You created a physical boundary around your time together. D8 was not going to die without her blanket and you really don't have to answer the door if you don't want to. I know if there had been a legitimate reason... .D8 forgot her homework for example you would have made arrangements to get it to her.  You do not have to let these uninvited unannounced people into your house.  You are under no obligation except to the needs of the kids... .the blanket in this situation is not a need, I'm sure her mom has blankets at her house.

Panda39

[BonusMom]

So I'm just trying to understand a little bit better.

Crazy behavior ---- like going to your house unannounced? What happens in those instances? Conflict?

I'm just wondering if your boundary [limiting ex's access during time the kids aren't there] aligns with your values? You don't usually hide from the doorbell, right? If you could figure out a way to communicate what it is you want, accepting that she's a boundary buster willing to use the kids, and still not engaging in [whatever the crazy behavior is].

Hiding from your daughters when they come to the door would be really hard for anyone. Hard for them too if they thought you were home and were hiding from them.

I must not have explained very well. There is so much background to all of this, so I'm trying to keep it brief and still make sense.

Yes, she has a history of ringing the doorbell, then starting conflict if he opens the door. She has even barged into the house when he accidentally left the door unlocked (before I was here).

We don't answer the door if we're not expecting someone. There are too many door-to-door salesmen -- and of course, the uBPDx. If it's a friend, they will call or text first.

My BF decided on limited contact with his ex after several incidents. She is VERY high-conflict and manipulative. So, he limits his responses to her and her BF's bombardment of texts and emails. He only responds to what is necessary and important and tries not to reinforce any of her crazy behaviors. He avoids seeing her in person when possible. Boundaries are VERY important with her, of course. If he gives an inch, she takes a mile.

Anyway, SD8 told my BF her mom and her BF said they'd take her blanket away if she didn't eat all of her food. My BF told her she could leave her blanket here if she wanted to, and it would still be here when she returns this week. It was like a light bulb went off for her. "Really?" she asked. He said sure. So, she decided she wanted to leave it here. He asked her again just to make sure, and yes, she was sure. That night, like clockwork on their Day 1 of their weekend with them, my BF received a text from his uBPDx's BF (who he has asked not to hear from and chooses to ignore a lot because of his inappropriate and invasive behavior, and he's not required to respond to him, only the uBPDx, according to the parenting agreement. If my BF responded to all of the texts/emails from BOTH of them, it would be full-time job! Her BF is either under her control and/or is just as crazy is she is, judging by his actions and verbally abusive emails). Anyway, the text said SD8 wanted her blanket. It's always some request or weird message to try to get a response. My BF ignored the text. The next day, her BF texted again that she was asking for her blanket all day. My BF knows SD8 well, and he knows if she asked for it, it would only be at night. We don't think she was asking for her blanket without their prodding, though. We both think uBPDm was angry when she arrived without her blanket since that is her punishment tool and that she probably manipulated SD8 into "asking for her blanket," if she asked at all. She also manipulated BOTH SD8 & SD6 into coming over here and behaving like uBPDx would if she wasn't afraid of a restraining order. My BF does NOT want his daughters to think going to anyone's house (even ours) and behaving like that is an appropriate way to get what you want.

The girls don't know we were here. We were inside, and it was dark. It would have been different if they'd arrived when we were outside on the deck, but we were not. And yes, the uBPDx and her BF have certainly done odd things when we've been outside, too, and it doesn't stop us from enjoying our deck. It would be nice to at least have some privacy when we're in our home.

[DreamGirl]

Alone time, without the ping of a text message or the ruminating misery of talking about the ex at dinner, is super important.

I have some pretty firm value based boundaries in my life. i.e. I think that court orders, parenting and child support should be between biological parents. That's my value, so my boundary in protecting that value, is that I won't participate in discussions with non-biological parents about these things (i.e my children's stepmom or my stepchildren's mama). When the girls' mama tries to bust that boundary, I just tell her "I understand what you're saying and it makes a lot of sense, but I just prefer that you keep this between you and their dad."

That's why ask about the value that's being protected, and if the boundary being enforced is aligning with the value. It very well could be. I, too, understand not answering the phone or the door. I've been known to let almost every single call from my stepkids' mama go to voicemail.
 

Then, back to the front door, laying on the doorbell with more screaming and crying. It was so, SOO hard for my BF not to answer the door. We did our best not to not show we were home. Because we have windows up high, even had to sneak, crawl upstairs carefully when we went to our bedroom.  shocked The whole thing sucked for us. It was yet another reminder that we have little privacy from her and her bf. It must have been incredibly awful for my SD's.

This part is that has me asking if there's a way to verbalize to the kiddos (or even mom) so they understand. When we're setting limits in these situations, it's good to be mindful of how we are acting in response to a boundary being busted. Strong arming her will usually end in strong arming from the other side also. It becomes tit for tat so to speak. They obviously think it's okay to barrage your phone and even your home - you can't change someone else's values. It becomes about just letting them know your preference. Enforcing a boundary can be done with grace. Ignoring texts is extremely invalidating and gives them the green light to do the same (no matter how important). When we use validation tools, often times it's harder for the boundary buster to plow over them because they feel heard.  This is a really good overview what I'm probably failing at expressing: https://bpdfamily.com/content/setting-boundaries

I, personally, tell ALL my kids to call first before they come over. And if I don't answer don't come over. (Although I've relaxed tremendously now that they're all older)  I too have a value in that when the kids are gone, it's more of a private time (like when you're in the bathroom and don't want to be interrupted) so it's different when they are at the other parent's house that the front door isn't a swinging one.

I tell them I walk around naked when they're gone.

None of them want to see that.  

[BonusMom]

Boy, do I recognize this type of behavior   My SO and I experienced a lot of it early on in our relationship too.  When we met he was still in the FOG and had not yet developed the boundaries he has today. Our harassment was probably more via the phone than in person. 

Before their temporary court order he was putting money in the bank for his stbx and on Christmas Eve he was to make a deposit. He knew and planned to make the deposit but his uBPDxw called whining about the money not being in her account yet... .it was probably 9:02a the bank had just opened.  He told her he would put it in the account.  He went to the bank and left his phone at my place.  It rang a million times in a row... .no messages.  Then it rang and his older daughter left a message to put the money in the bank.  Then back to constant ringing... .my 16 year old son was so disgusted he put the phone under a pillow.

We had multiple dates interrupted by calls from his children and the ex, that he needed to take them somewhere to get something (she didn't/doesn't drive)... .this actually helped my SO later when the ex tried to alienate the kids from him, but that's a story for another day 

I know it probably felt kind of juvenile hiding in your own house but I totally understand why you did it.  You created a physical boundary around your time together. D8 was not going to die without her blanket and you really don't have to answer the door if you don't want to. I know if there had been a legitimate reason... .D8 forgot her homework for example you would have made arrangements to get it to her.  You do not have to let these uninvited unannounced people into your house.  You are under no obligation except to the needs of the kids... .the blanket in this situation is not a need, I'm sure her mom has blankets at her house.

Panda39

Thanks, Panda. I'm sorry that you can relate, but it does help to know I'm not alone.

You're right -- if there was a legitimate reason, we definitely would have made other arrangements. We suspect SD8 didn't want the blanket but her MOM and her BF wanted the blanket  SD8 was FINE without the blanket when she left and very deliberate and confident about leaving it here where it would remain safely until she got home (instead of taken away as a punishment tool at the other house). It was her choice and her initiative to leave it here. This was a bold, confident move for her! Also, as tempting as it was to answer the door with the mom getting them so worked up outside, there are many reasons my BF didn't, including not wanting to teach the girls it's okay to act like that (just like their mom) to get what they want (or more likely, what their mom wants). Also, their mom has shown up unannounced before, ringing the doorbell at 7:00 a.m. on a Sat., just to start a conflict when my BF opened the door. She has also barged into the house when he accidentally left the door unlocked. She and her BF exhibit stalking behavior and are just chomping at the bit for us to open the door to them.

I'm afraid that the ex will start using the girls to harass us more and more if she sees it's working. We can make requests using SET, etc., to stop certain behaviors, but those aren't boundaries. Lately, using communication tools with her is a futile effort. My BF has requested communication be between him and his ex, not her BF.  It was ignored. So, some of our boundaries include keeping the phone on silent and not responding to every single text and email from uBPDxw and her BF. They love attention and keeping my BF engaged, so he only responds to what's important. So, when my BF ignored texts from the ex's BF about SD8 wanting her blanket, it resulted in this... .extinction burst?

And DreamGirl, I like what you tell your kids -- to call first before they come over, and don't come over if you don't answer, also that you walk around naked when they're gone.