Cooled off and more lucid

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Real proper divorce talks have held fast since august. Papers are being processed, and we are still under one large roof sharing occasional evening meals. Anger hurt blame have all reduced and we are ticking along in the direction of physical separation due to take place feb 2017.

STBexw has gone back to work full time which means I do nearly all school runs (D7) and have done several single dad away holidays incl xmas. We’ve had (D +me) really great times. But I am tiring. I’ve done single dad stuff before (S now 19) I know the ropes but it is hard.

This time I am also about to be 60. That adds new dimensions.

Anyhow point is do I really want to get divorced? I am having second thoughts.

Yes, it was my initiative, on the the back of a r/s that was fulfilling none of my needs. But that simple expression (fulfilling my needs) was never really discussed between the two of us. Our exchanges were, on reflection, simply accusations of where the other failed. You don’t do this or don’t do that.

The simple expression of one’s needs did not seem to enter the conversation…well maybe that is not exactly true. I seem to recall saying I needed love, but the reply was such a put down that I felt stupid for having expressed a need, and retreated.

Anyhow now having calmed down and stepped back a bit, and read and reflected, I understand needs are fundamental and very valid, whatever they may be.  I now feel like saying in a calm and assertive manner this relationship has the chance of working again but my needs have to be certainly considered and hopefully met, not just jeered at. (FWIW my need look like this, to be listened to, to be respected, to be treated with care not hostility).

So, there are two points to this little post.

1)   I feel like I want to state my needs clearly, and that I need to exhaust all avenues to attempted reconciliation
2)   If by some stroke of ‘magic’ my need get understood and appreciated I have no problem with getting our marriage back on the rails.
(I say magic because I do realise there is some kind of B/NPD underlying our r/s)

I would much appreciate any thoughts on this matter.

[earlgrey]

Real proper divorce talks have held fast since august. Papers are being processed, and we are still under one large roof sharing occasional evening meals. Anger hurt blame have all reduced and we are ticking along in the direction of physical separation due to take place feb 2017.

STBexw has gone back to work full time which means I do nearly all school runs (D7) and have done several single dad away holidays incl xmas. We’ve had (D +me) really great times. But I am tiring. I’ve done single dad stuff before (S now 19) I know the ropes but it is hard.

This time I am also about to be 60. That adds new dimensions.

Anyhow point is do I really want to get divorced? I am having second thoughts.

Yes, it was my initiative, on the the back of a r/s that was fulfilling none of my needs. But that simple expression (fulfilling my needs) was never really discussed between the two of us. Our exchanges were, on reflection, simply accusations of where the other failed. You don’t do this or don’t do that.

The simple expression of one’s needs did not seem to enter the conversation…well maybe that is not exactly true. I seem to recall saying I needed love, but the reply was such a put down that I felt stupid for having expressed a need, and retreated.

Anyhow now having calmed down and stepped back a bit, and read and reflected, I understand needs are fundamental and very valid, whatever they may be.  I now feel like saying in a calm and assertive manner this relationship has the chance of working again but my needs have to be certainly considered and hopefully met, not just jeered at. (FWIW my need look like this, to be listened to, to be respected, to be treated with care not hostility).

So, there are two points to this little post.

1)   I feel like I want to state my needs clearly, and that I need to exhaust all avenues to attempted reconciliation
2)   If by some stroke of ‘magic’ my need get understood and appreciated I have no problem with getting our marriage back on the rails.
(I say magic because I do realise there is some kind of B/NPD underlying our r/s)

I would much appreciate any thoughts on this matter.

[enlighten me]

I can see where your coming from. I'm a single dad and it is hard work. I also miss the intimacy of being with someone. I too once I calmed down had second thoughts.

After a bit more time I realised my second thoughts where more panic at having to deal with everything on my own. I glossed over the bad bits and how the relationship made me feel. The rose tinted glasses had gone back on for a bit.

I'm not saying this is your case but before doing anything you need to have a good look at how the relationship truly made you feel and whether you truly think things will change a second time around.

[earlgrey]

Thanks for yor thoughts EM.

Yes I panicked a while ago, but I like to think now my reasoning is less knee-jerk.

Into the mix I'm also thinking, the divorce scenario/crisis may 'jolt' my wife into new ways of thinking... .?

But the bottom line is, while I remember well the cr@p I dealt with, and no thanks no more please, if there is to be a next time around my 'needs' are not going to be trampled.

I realise this is a big ask... .but if you don't ask... .

[formflier]

I realise this is a big ask... .but if you don't ask... .

I like this.  It seems like you have some time here, but not a lot.  

Principle:  Life is about choices.  You are your choices.

What I hearing is a guy that wants to make sure no stone is left unturned.

Ultimately you are asking yourself a question about who you want to be and who you are going to be.   Since this is a r/s, you also understand you get... .at most... .50% of the vote.

My advice is to go for it.  Enjoy whatever life comes your way.  You seem very settled on what is healthy and unhealthy.  I'm not at all suggesting you tolerate unhealthy behavior.

How to do this?  Start by writing a letter.  Worry about whether or not to send it later.  I would keep it short, no more than half a page.  

Basic sentiment:  We've both decided that we don't want "that" marriage anymore.  I'm interested in building a new one with you.  

Thoughts?

FF

[earlgrey]

Thanks FF... .I am with you on the how? As I know from experience these 'big' discussions usually go nowhere!

If indeed I do attempt to 'rekindle', it it not just to say I tried, but actually to get a result... .optimistic perhaps.

Letter seems good, conversations have always ended messily off topic.

I have a feeling this idea of I want a divorce/now I want to talk will be extrememly confusing for my w. I think her reaction will reflect her regular all or nothing stance, and the idea of going back a step will not sit easily.

Also timing maybe important.

If I do it before divorce is final, I might just be taken as confused, weak and treated with good old scorn. I can't see that breaking any new ground.

Actually I don't mind getting the divorce ratified... .we know where we stand.

So my thinking is maybe create a new dialogue once we are actually separated, or better perhaps on the cusp of separation, so that there is the image of real separation if discussions are not forthcoming.

Am I just being unrealistic and full of wishful thinking?

[formflier]

Totally natural to be asking all these questions... .I think it is a good... .healthy process for YOU.

Don't overthink it.  This is about you... .not her.

Yes... timing matters... .to a point.  If you know she is ticked about something... or just got bad news.  Delay. 

It would be smart to make sure she has time on her hands afterwards.  To let her think.

My thought is that you get the letter ready... .very succinct.  Hopefully that will set the stage for you to talk to her.

NOT a discussion.  Plant a seed and see where it goes.

Boy... .I'm struggling with "when" to do it.  After a divorce seems wrong to me.  That's just me though. 

I would say take a week to get letter written... .perhaps post it here.  Sit with the words and the feelings.  Pick a time and then do it.

So... .1 week to write letter.  1 week to find a time.  Let her take as much time as she needs.

Thoughts?

Perhaps a short talk where you say the message and leave her a letter to consider.

FF

[earlgrey]

Plant a seed and see where it goes.

yes I like that... .

We have a joint single lawyer that I instruct (we have reached agreement and signed off prelim papers). I could ask for a suspension in the process and approach w. with a seed.

Seeds for a better future... .time for constructive exchanges... .or back to plan ':)' (divorce).

While probably quite robust, this plan of action, it does seem kind of ambushy and devious. But maybe it is legitimised because of the nature of what we are dealing with. I know from experience open discussions and exchanges do not happen. Period. So perhaps a 'weighted' discussion is OK.

Moral/content and BPD commentators, your help please is most welcome.

FWIW what do I want... .as a starting point a reasonably functional family unit with w and D7. I am happy to accept low functioning 'love' from w but not abuse, in exchange for 24/7 with D7.

This has the premise that w can actually modify her behaviour, and I have read around here alot that it doesn't happen often!

[formflier]

Why ask for suspension of the process?  I want to make sure I understand your thinking on this idea before commenting.

FF

[earlgrey]

Why ask for suspension of the process?

no real reason - maybe discussing future together while signing divorce papers seems incongruous. But does it matter? I am after a workable solution and I have no real care as to what shape it takes, as long as my needs are happy campers.

[formflier]

My gut says pose the question and let her think about it for a few days... .week or so.  If she is interested in sticking around, then consider a "pause" in the divorce process.

FF