Getting a BPD Diagnosis and Court Ordered Treatment-Can it be Done? How?

[Mika1739]

How does one succeed at convincing the Judge and GAL to focus on BPD.  I have heard of MMPI-2 and PIA test.  I seem to hear about courts not being good with dealing with diagnosises and making a parent who is clearly sick and getting worse seek PROPERLY treatment, DBT etc.  Many say it's a big risk to go that route.  My attorney has talked about an intense two day 4hr per day psych evaluation at a forensic psychological center.  How do you go step by step making case?

[ForeverDad]

Ask your attorney whether that evaluation would result in recommendations (favorable for you) regarding custody and parenting.  A diagnosis without it's impact on the children might be somewhat irrelevant.  While some here can point to a diagnosis, most others here, myself included, never got one.  It's almost as though the professionals are reluctant to state up front what the core problem is and so deal with the manifestations.

For example, suppose your spouse was an alcoholic.  Suppose you got an evaluation that stated that.  Would it necessarily have to impact the court's decisions?  Possibly not.  What if your spouse is a dry alcoholic, someone who has stopped drinking, or limits drinking currently to reasonable amounts or not around the children if they do drink to excess?  In that case it wouldn't affect the children very much.  Just about the only major concerns are if (1) the spouse drives impaired with the children or (2) gets into alcoholic rages/neglect against the children.  My point is that whether there is a disorder is not the court's and other professionals' concern, it's whether and how much the children are impacted... .substantive child abuse, child neglect or child endangerment.

That's why our observations of the court's and related professionals' actions indicate that their deciding factor whether it is 'actionable' or not rests upon the observed and documented behaviors moreso than a diagnosis that may or may not be applicable in their view.  And it's not just any poor behaviors, they give more attention to the poor parenting behaviors than the poor adult behaviors.  (I recall when I called my CPS and reported my ex was raging in front of our preschooler.  The lady asked, "Is she raging at your son?"  When I replied "No, at me", she said, "Call back when she rages at the child."  Evidently my area does not view mere exposure to raging as actionable.)

I'm not saying a diagnosis isn't possible or isn't meaningful, just that it may be of limited value in the divorce process.

Have you been writing a journal or log of the incidents?  If so, then that will help you to be more credible in court with written dates and other details.  If it's just verbal back and forth with your spouse in testimony, then the court might conclude it's "he said, she said" hearsay and mostly ignore it.

[Mika1739]

Thank you for this thorough practical explanation, extremely helpful.  I have copious notes, calendars, recorded phone calls (which aren't allowed but man if they were)  I am of the Logician personality type.  I can show all 9 criteria with data I have kept.  The problem is the GAL just rushes to judgement and we don't have a trial yet or do I know if we will.  I have full custody in temporary order and BPD can see children in Theraputic Visits only.  The order was in October and just now the therapist has finally been identified.   The therapist I only met once but she absorbed me telling her BPD was diagnosed in April very thoughtfully and discussed the difficulties of dealing with, she seemed to take me seriously and took me at my word about the issues.

After reading youroom response I am only sticking to pointing out patterns, when the time is right I have my data and appointed therapist can talk about BPD.  BPD announced her diagnosis to myself and children as if it were a press conference so children and I can only say her announcement was a historical events, it did happen.  We don't know about that but here is the data for intense interpersonal relationship, fear of real or imagined abandonment, substance abuse, suicidal issues, inappropriate and intense anger and rage episodes especially during high moments of achievement, religious completion and athletic achievement, splitting or fluxaiting often rapidly between extremes of idealization and devaluation.

[scraps66]

I would say a documented history of the behavioral patterns would be needed to be of value.  In some cases judges don't even follow the recommendations in a custody evaluation. 

My courthouse is one where judges just don't want messy cases going across their desk.  It's much easier and reduces criticism if the judge sits there and issues bench warrants and simple things than getting into messy psychological evaluation stuff.  Too tiring for a judge and most are not trained to understand stuff like this.

[livednlearned]

Keep in mind, too, that enforcing a court order basically falls to you.

If she does not comply with court-ordered treatment, you have to file a motion for contempt, hire your lawyer, go to court, get a judge's ruling, write up the new order based on the judge's ruling, and then... .you have to enforce that order too.

Meaning, if she does not comply, the only person who will see it through is you.

You already have full custody and supervised visitation, which means you (and your ex) have already persuaded the court that something is terribly wrong with her behaviors. At this point, it is up to her to prove otherwise, and being BPD, she will likely find it very difficult to swing things her way. Judges and court have a hard time figuring out the accuracy of he-said, she-said mud-slinging, but in your case, it sounds like things have moved significantly in your favor.

I'm not trying to talk you out of getting a diagnosis or filing a motion for treatment because they are reasonable solutions to problematic parenting behavior. However, it's good to recognize the limitations of what court orders can do. They give you leverage to protect your kids. They don't heal disordered people.

I mentioned in another post that my ex lost custody and is no longer in my son's life. He was ordered to get a psyche eval and treatment and that was such an affront to him that he chose to bounce out completely and not comply.

The end result turned out to be the same. I have full custody and while it is not ideal that my son has no contact with his father, it may be a blessing in disguise.

The same may occur in your case if your ex decompensates at the thought of her mental illness being broadcast in a court room for all to see. She might not be able to confront the sheer shame of it, and honestly, who can blame her 

Family court does a terrible job making sense of mental illness.

[ForeverDad]

You already have full custody and supervised visitation, which means you (and your ex) have already persuaded the court that something is terribly wrong with her behaviors. At this point, it is up to her to prove otherwise, and being BPD, she will likely find it very difficult to swing things her way. Judges and court have a hard time figuring out the accuracy of he-said, she-said mud-slinging, but in your case, it sounds like things have moved significantly in your favor.

I'm not trying to talk you out of getting a diagnosis or filing a motion for treatment because they are reasonable solutions to problematic parenting behavior. However, it's good to recognize the limitations of what court orders can do. They give you leverage to protect your kids. They don't heal disordered people.

Family court does a terrible job making sense of mental illness.

In my prior post I was sharing the typical outcomes in our high conflict cases.  If you can get a diagnosis to build your case in court, then by all means do so.  Sadly, for most of us the professionals are reluctant to dig into a diagnosis and its ramifications and prefer to limit themselves to (actionable) behaviors.  And as LnL noted above, court deals with litigants as they are, they don't try to fix them.  Maybe they'll order therapy... .after 8 years in and out of court I have an order stating my ex ought to have therapy but even then it wasn't ordered.  What court will do is issue orders, as official boundaries, which both sides need to follow.  We don't have the Authority to issue boundaries to the Ex as the court can, but we can still apply boundaries to ourselves that benefit us and the children.