Wife won't leave. Now what?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Frustrating day folks. So my uBPDstbxw met with her L for first time yesterday. Now she says she's "not going anywhere", I can leave if I want to? Says we are not doing nesting. Says she wants a parenting plan in place first. However, that is exactly what my L proposed in initial divorce papers few days ago. Frustrating, but not surprising. I am the one who carries a great risk staying in the house.  She has all the power, because we both know she is the unstable one. The unpredictable one.

She had been a control freak and a manipulator for 9 years. I guess she's not going to stop now. My question for you all is how should I proceed? We met with a realtor today and she recommended we list house for sale in couple weeks. With relatively quickly sale, mid-April closing. Wow, that is a long time to live with her! Not to mention the kids. I guess they are just along for the ride also. Any suggestions are appreciated.

[Ddad3]

Frustrating day folks. So my uBPDstbxw met with her L for first time yesterday. Now she says she's "not going anywhere", I can leave if I want to? Says we are not doing nesting. Says she wants a parenting plan in place first. However, that is exactly what my L proposed in initial divorce papers few days ago. Frustrating, but not surprising. I am the one who carries a great risk staying in the house.  She has all the power, because we both know she is the unstable one. The unpredictable one.

She had been a control freak and a manipulator for 9 years. I guess she's not going to stop now. My question for you all is how should I proceed? We met with a realtor today and she recommended we list house for sale in couple weeks. With relatively quickly sale, mid-April closing. Wow, that is a long time to live with her! Not to mention the kids. I guess they are just along for the ride also. Any suggestions are appreciated.

[jonmnemonic]

Prepare for the prospect that she'll have you removed from the house against your will.

[Ddad3]

Johnm- How would she do that? By making some kind of false accusation against me?

[takingandsending]

Ddad3,
I am in close to same boat. Nesting to my STBxw means she stays in house, I leave. Access to kids is undefined. My L said since I requested divorce and she is SAHM, courts likely to side with her and remove me from house. However, are mediator and I are working to help wife find accommodation for nesting. I was one demanding parent plan before nesting started because I was afraid she'd just not leave in absence of agreement.

Who spends most time with your children? is your wife capable of caring for them for 48 hour weekend or does she look to you to provide relief as my wife does. If the latter, you can try to subtly assist her to realize she is gaining well deserved time to recharge batteries and do what she wants if she has a space outside of the house. In my wife's case, I pitched it that she can have more time to focus on her business and herself. She likes that idea well enough!    It's still a work in progress as she doesn't want to give in to what I want, sort of a balancing act.

Not at all surprised your w wasn't ready to go. How can you sell house without her agreement? Is it in your name only?

[livednlearned]

What are the divorce/custody ramifications of you moving out? Is there a way to stay somewhere else majority time without it legally being treated as you moving out?

Has she ever made a false accusation against you before?

She is probably not as unpredictable as you may think. Around here we say consistently inconsistent and predictably unpredictable. Can you describe patterned way that she deals with stress and reality? Usually, there is some kind of pattern (for us, too). Knowing what that pattern is can be a great source of leverage -- sometimes we get beaten down so much in the marriage that we feel disempowered. One of the benefits of this board is that there are people who made it through and can point out what the next few steps are like. You may have to change some habits and feel uncomfortable to get to the other side intact. Knowing as precisely as possible how she will handle herself going forward will be very helpful. Is she prone to stonewalling? Obstructing? Gaslighting? False allegations? Recruiting negative advocates? Smear campaign? Becoming suicidal? Does she go through tender cycles? Will she malign you to the kids?

In response to her suggestion to have a PP in place, tell her that's a great idea, she's smart to think of it  

Use these kinds of inane turns to your benefit. She desperately wants to feel adequate, so focus on letting her have that small win.

People with BPD become so focused on the conflict immediately in front of them, in that moment, swept up in those emotions. You have the benefit of being able to see the bigger picture and can problem-solve. That's a big source of leverage.

[Ddad3]

Taking- We both work full time. Although I work 3 12-hour shifts. I am home 4 days a week. My L and I recommended a PP with me working 3 days in a row, I thought it seemed pretty fair (50/50). House is in both our names.

LnL- She has only threatened to make false allegations against me. Her pattern when she loses it is to blame someone for how she is feeling, almost  always me. I am the villain in her eyes. How she acts is serious attempts to control everything around her. I think you are right, she needs ownership of the PP, since the first one came from me! She needs to feel in control, because she feels so out control? Another aspect of this is w still thinks this will all blow over, I'm just going "through a phase." She keeps telling me "it's not too late to back out of this." She is hoping for a recycle. In her eyes, why should she leave.

My L seems to think I could leave the house and not give up rights to kids. My L was not a huge fan of nesting, let alone living together. I emailed my L, see what she thinks Monday. Sounds like W needs some piecemeal "victories", LnL, to feel like she's winning and in control?

Many times she gets what she wants and changes her mind anyways. I am always working with a moving target!  Exhausting illness. You do get feeling beaten down.

[livednlearned]

If your L thinks you could leave the house and not give up rights to the kids, that may be safest. It's not a big step from threatening false allegations to making them. And once made, they are a nightmare and a half to dispute.

What are the nature of the threats she makes? It might be a good form of insurance to start keeping receipts that show your whereabouts, just in case. Or documenting the threats in a journal. Or recording if your L thinks that's ok.

About leaving early: Ask your L for specifics and keep asking questions until you feel sure there is a clear path forward. Make sure it's very clear what you need to do to back yourself up if questioned by a judge about your decision to leave. It's important that everything you do have some kind of documentation to back up your claims. So, for example, if you leave, write an email to your wife about why you think it's best for the kids if you stay elsewhere. Let your L read it before to make sure you don't make her job harder  

Also, judges like problem-solvers. They don't see a whole lot of that in high-conflict cases. So when you document things, leave a trail of that kind of pattern, too, if you can. "Wife, as I mentioned, it's not good for the kids to be around this conflict. I mention xyz and you become enraged with me, and this kind of emotional reactivity is causing the kids undue stress. Let's make this as easy for them as possible under difficult circumstances. I understand you are against nesting. After much thought, I propose that I xyz and see them every day to minimize their exposure to any anger you feel toward me."

Or something like that.

About giving your wife a sense she is winning -- yes. Altho be sure you are clear in your mind what your bottom line is on the big stuff. Letting her feel that she is in control over a suggestion that you already proposed? Fine. Let her have that. As long as she is moving in the direction needed to get to some kind of agreement.

Divorce from a BPD spouse can gut you. Make sure you take time for yourself. It's essential. If you are like a lot of people here, you'll feel guilty when you put your needs first. Do it anyway! Small things count. Take a mindfulness-based stress reduction class or start exercising, or don't answer her text messages, or walk away when she begins shouting at you.

I look back at my life toward the end of marriage and wonder what stopped me from looking at my son and asking him how he felt as ex dressed us both down, yelling and shouting about the dumbest stuff. Why didn't I say to my son (9 at the time) that it felt bad to be talked to like that, and I was going to go for a walk, did he want to come with me while dad cooled down?

I know it's hard when you're in it. Start building up your strength by believing you deserve better. That you are worth it, that at some point, your kids need to see how someone calmly exits a scene where someone is losing his or her head.