How to stay calm when confronted by crazy crazy lies

[landslide]

Hello, it has been awhile since I've written.  I have a dd17 who has been diagnosed with ADHD, MDD, PTSD and eating disorder issues but who clearly has BPD and maybe Bipolar (her providers have been reluctant to diagnose due to her age).  She started really falling apart about a year and a half ago, and we started trying to get her into residential per all the professional's recommendation in March 2016 but insurance denied on multiple occasions.  Through county funding, she did a 2-month residential stay that ended in July 2016 and seemed to be better for a short while.  Unfortunately, the symptoms and behaviors returned and slowly escalated in the intervening time.  She seemed a little better in November-December, but we knew it was fragile because it all seemed centered around a boy she was dating.  He broke up with her because she continued to run away and use drugs at times, telling her she needed to work on herself.  She then ran away, got super high on weed with an old addict friend, got in a car with some random guy, agreed to have sex with him for a ride, then took 60 aspirin and landed in an ICU.  She was admitted to psych, and my insurance finally authorized a longer-term residential stay (9 MONTHS after we started asking, with support from numerous professionals)!  Of course, my insurance refused to pay for continued hospitalization as the doctor requested, we brought her home with the plan for intensive outpatient, and she ran away that very night.  We found plans she had written out to go to California and "reunite with family" at age 20.  Fortunately, we caught her and got her back into the hospital, where she can now hopefully remain until the residential bed opens in a few weeks.

So, she is safe.  But that's the best I can say about where she is emotionally and where our relationship stands.

She has gone back to me being the villain, something she had not been saying since last year.  She tells outrageous, audacious lies, re-storying various things, such as most recently saying she didn't really overdose but was forced at gunpoint to take the aspirin and was just "too scared to tell us."  At one point, she was insisting she had a miscarriage, even though the doctor was saying it was just not true.  When I visit her, I never know what kind of affect or story I will get.  The last time I was with her, she told me she was having homicidal thoughts about me.  My honest instinct when I am with her is to run for the hills because she is so unstable and untruthful and callous.  At the same time, I know there is a good person under all the psychopathology.

I know I often contribute to conflict.  I am able to withstand a lot but then I find myself telling her what she is saying isn't true, which does no good.  I know she needs inpatient and residential because she is truly a threat to herself, but she has built the narrative that I am the one who is crazy and am "locking her up."  I am struggling to cope with so many things, but especially the alternate reality of things that just did not happen.  I try to validate her, but then I feel like I am taking part in a delusion.  I don't know if she will allow me to rebuild a good relationship with her, but I would love some advice on how to step out of my role in the dysfunction. 

This is easily the worst thing I have ever been through in my life and I don't see her ever changing, no matter how much help we try to get her.       

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Bright Day Mom]

Landslide, so sorry you are back under these conditions. I know how difficult it is in the decision making of residential placement and how these psych crises are the hardest thing we've had to endure, trumping all other pain and low over my life time.

My D17 (now too, yay) hasn't really told crazy lies, but has certainly had her share of mis-interpretations. During combative times especially while hospitalized I took the advice of drs and social workers and listened. Not necessarily responding to every syllable, but shadowed her body language and was present. 

My D also needed a higher level of care and residential proved to be lifesaving. Two months of residential was probably a good start for your girl, but the programs we looked into were 8, 9 some 12 months. Think about it, it took our kids how long to get to these low points, it is going to take a lot of time and patience to make the climb back up.  But it is possible, slow and steady wins the race! 

In terms of rebuilding a relationship, that too is possible. Our relationship with our D is stronger now than EVER. The family sessions and continued therapeutic support has helped us all tremendously. 

Keep posting, lots of good people here to lend a friendly ear. 

[devastatedmom]

I can so relate to you, although my dd24's symptoms are somewhat milder.  My daughter will tell anyone who'll listen that she was abused all of her life by my husband and I (primarily me).  She told me last weekend (when I took her to the hospital because she was threatening suicide) that I "destroyed her" and that 80% of what her and her psych talk about is her trying to recover from me.  And my daughter too, tells all of her friends that I am the crazy one and that I am trying to hide the alleged abusive things I did by trying to convince her that she has BPD.  My daughter is in denial of her BPD and it is very difficult to get her into treatment.  She has a psychologist that she sees and adores, I think because she buys the lies and allows my daughter to be a victim which is what she wants.

I was once told by a psych that as difficult as it is if they lie, we should just go along with it - if your daughter says she had a miscarriage or was held at gunpoint that's her reality, ridiculous as it is, but it's easiest just to say ok, that's her version of events and it doesn't affect you, don't let it trouble you because you too have your reality and they don't have to match.  Easier said than done, I know, especially when accusations are made, but I am learning that the more I accept that my daughter has this terrible disease, the less it hurts me because I know it's not personal, it's an illness and as you said, you know there is a good person under all the psychopathology.  Mine too.

I find the hardest thing about being a parent of a BPD is that if anyone else treated me the way my daughter treats me, I would be done with them, but since it is my daughter I have two choices:  back away and be devastated or stay and be devastated.  It's an ugly thing.

Probably of no help to you, but I wish you peace and it is great to be "validated" that others are experiencing the same thing.

[landslide]

Thank you both for taking the time to respond.  I found what you had to say really helpful and also reassuring to know I am not wholly alone.  Today my daughter wouldn't even talk to me when I called her at the hospital, insisting she would only talk to her stepdad, who wasn't home, and then hanging up on me when I said he wasn't there.  My 10-year-old son, who has high-functioning autism, witnessed the interaction.  He said, ":)id she hang up on you?"  I told him and yes, and he said, "Well, she probably just wants to try to get dad to do something you won't do."  !  I was already taking it pretty calmly, but my son's very matter-of-fact comment was also very helpful, and it allowed me to move on and focus on having a nice supper with him. 
I was just listening to a really good podcast about "Emotional Agility" and it helped too: https://robbell.podbean.com/e/episode-136-susan-david-on-emotional-agility/ 
So I guess I just have to keep reaching out, accepting, and listening.  Thank you for being a part of that!

[ArleighBurke]

I try to validate her, but then I feel like I am taking part in a delusion.

Validation is about her EMOTION, not the facts. When you validate - you are saying "I can understand how you FEEL". You do NOT have to agree with the "facts" that caused her to feel that way.

Lieing is probably to deflect, so she doesn't have to admit she made a bad choice. "I was foced to take the aspirin at gunpoint" - probably best just to ignore that comment. For other comments, you can ignore the "FACT". but respond to the EMOTION - "I'm sorry you felt unsafe", "You must have felt X".

Read this site for the SET conversation method. It should help... .And read up on Validation.

[Lollypop]

Hi there Landslide

I wanted to join in the thread as some of your story really relates; I could easily see my BPDs behaving similarly when he was younger. They are just so vulnerable and believe me he got himself into some dangerous and tricky situations.

My BPDs has skewed thinking and at that age just couldn't think straight. My husband would laugh at me making that comment and say "say, he never thinks straight!" Which is so true. I know by now that if there's an easy way or a hard way, my BPDs chooses the hard way every single time without fail.

Maturity has helped my BPDs, as has improving our relationship, so the "bad" mother or "bad" dad has subsided.

 I read DevastatedMoms post and I wanted to say something.

"I have two choices:  back away and be devastated or stay and be devastated.  It's an ugly thing."

This is how I used to think and feel.

I totally agree that "no contact" is a devastating choice.  To stay in their lives doesn't have to be devastating. There's a way to have our kids in our lives, despite the problems.

Somebody pointed out to me how incredibly difficult it is to find a way "to feel sad but not actually be sad", but it can be done. I'm working on it.

Its just hard to deal with teenagerhood and BPD. Everything's so extreme and of course they react to your reactions. Your sons comment made me smile as he got you centred again.

I'm sorry you're dealing with all of this right now and I wanted to wish you luck in therapy options. Frustratingly my BPDs doesn't seek treatment.

Hugs

L  

[Dogsaregreat]

Devastated mom, I had to read your post twice. I thought that maybe I had typed it and forgot. Every word in your message could have been written by me. I have been accused of ruining my daughters' life, at least 99% of it. Her father gets blamed for the 1%. She has been in and out of hospitals, doctor's offices, inpatient (7 or 8 times), and oupatient. She was just released from an inpatient facility back to her home (living with the boyfriend and his divorced parents who are enablers), and the very next day admitted to yet another inpatient mental health facility. She was supposed to stay a minimum of two weeks and have a minimum of 6 ECT treatments, and after 3 treatments and one week's stay we were informed that she was released by their psychiatrist and told that she wasn't depressed. This has been going on, i.e. Suicide threats, medical tests, enough med's to fill a dining room table, for three years.  Also a 100+lb weight gain, which she blames exclusively on the meds, even though she eats to drown her feelings. Sad thing is that she was always an incredibly sweet thoughtful daughter, albeit immaturity played a big role in her not having many friends growing up. She was bullied when younger because she chose to dress differently than other kids growing up because in her words ... ."I like being unique". She lied to the boyfriend'sfamily about many issues including telling them that we threw her out. I sure wish things would get better because this has taken a serious toll on my health and I have had to seek therapy for feeling like I've failed. FYI I have two other grown children who have turned out "okay". I guess I just needed to vent. I wish things would turn around before one day I have to plan her funeral. We used to be so close

[devastatedmom]

Dogsaregreat - there is a really great post on here from a user called "sunshinepleas" which gives some great reasons why BPDs blame their mothers so much.  This user hasn't been active for a few years, but if you Google "Why do BPDs hate their mothers" it is the first article that comes up.  One of the things this person says that really makes sense to me is "developmental separation on steroids" - meaning that people with BPD experience the same emotional need to separate from their mothers as non-BPDs, but because they suffer from dysregulation of their emotions, the experience, like everything else emotionally in their lives, is magnified.  This user shares some other things as well that have helped me to not take things personally.

Lollipop - I really don't want to back away from my daughter; I love her very much and more importantly, despite everything, I know she needs me.  I also would never go no contact; by back away I guess I just mean emotionally disengage.  I hope I am one day able to get to where you are.  I thought I was there at one point, but now that is not the case.  The problem for me is that the sting of my daughters accusations is overwhelming to me at times and sends me into depression, and I have 2 nonBPD sons (one who suffers from severe ADHD and OCD/Hypochondria and one with no diagnoses at all) and they need me just as much as my daughter does.  One of my daughter's friends who believes her lies and exaggerations told me that I need to go to a psychiatrist so they can tell me what an "abusive piece of shi*" I am.  Of course, I know what the truth is, but a comment like this is pretty hard to take.  So, as much as I love and want to help my daughter, I have times when I wonder if I will eventually need to back away for my own well being but the thought of doing that would be as devastating as staying and dealing with everything.  Sometimes I walk on eggshells because I am afraid she will go no contact with me and other times I think it would be a relief of sorts.  It's like I can't get any footing and it's a horrible feeling.

[Lollypop]

Hi there devastatedmom

One of my daughter's friends who believes her lies and exaggerations told me that I need to go to a psychiatrist so they can tell me what an "abusive piece of shi*" I am.  Of course, I know what the truth is, but a comment like this is pretty hard to take.  So, as much as I love and want to help my daughter, I have times when I wonder if I will eventually need to back away for my own well being but the thought of doing that would be as devastating as staying and dealing with everything.  Sometimes I walk on eggshells because I am afraid she will go no contact with me and other times I think it would be a relief of sorts.  It's like I can't get any footing and it's a horrible feeling.

I get this. That sting that cuts through you when you find somebody has said or thought something that's personally hurtful. I still find it hard not to react and sometimes do react but I always regret it.

How to find a way to rise up above the judgment of others?

It really doesn't matter what others think of you. I use the phrase "we are all just doing our very best and we could all try a little harder".  Your daughters friend quite honestly doesn't sound very mature or very kind. It's actually a very horrible thing to say to somebody regardless if they think it's true. This friend is just not worth your time and isn't your priority.  Perhaps you could think of a stock reply answer to use the next time a "friend" makes a hurtful comment that switches it back to them?

Fear is my number one enemy. It's not easy to bring yourself back to the present but I'm getting better at it with practise.  I'm an organiser and a fixer and can see 10 steps ahead of everybody else. My husband and I would feed off each other's fear until we reached a point that we convinced ourselves to take action. I know better now. I'm more aware of it and nip it in the bud if I can. I accept that we always just made things worse so the best thing I do now, when I feel the need to take action,  - is do nothing. Tomorrow is another day and things may look different then.

Ive often felt that I just couldn't carry on and have been desperate to cut my BPDs  off to give myself a break. Oh the relief! Space between us has been mutually beneficial at times but it wasn't until I completely accepted my role in the chaos that things started to get better. This is me and my situation, I'm not saying yours.

You're doing great and I'm so glad you're posting. You're absolutely right, you have to take care of yourself.

Have you read "stop walking on eggshells"? I found it really helpful.

How old are your two sons and how are they with your daughter?

What support do you have for yourself?

L

[Jnel921]

Unfortunately I can relate to this. My BPD D lies all of the time. The worst one was in Middle School when she went to school with a scratch on her face and told them me and my H hit her. She told them I hit her in the face with a belt and my husband tossed her around outside and threw her in the car. None of this was true. The school sent child protective services that week to speak to us. The day of this incident I was away on business. So it could never have happened. My H who is a police officer was called by IAB and investigated over this. The social worker over time and after speaking with my daughter determined she wasn't telling the truth. My D admitted to a tree branch scratching her face while she was collecting them in our backyard for a project. The case was closed and my heart was forever scarred. She then accused her aunts husband of trying to sexually assault her during a sleepover. When I went with her to the police station to have him arrested she then refused to press the charges. which made me believe that was a lie. I told her at that time like i told her before that her actions and accusations carry serious consequences. Does she realize how she is affecting all of our lives.

She has caused the same kind of drama with short lived friends. Telling them their boyfriends tried to kiss her... .talk to her ... etc. So she doesn't have any real friends. I remember when she was 11 she was sad because she felt like she didn't fit in. I told her that being unique was a good thing. I remember highlighting some of her hair so she could feel different and I remember her telling me about the attention and comments she received. She did have a bully in Middle School with whom she became friendly with over the years but was also her partner in crime until my D dropped her as a friend too.

My D left 9 weeks ago. She abandoned her future. I doubt she will be back. She is living with an abusive enabler. She called me crying one day saying he hit her and she wanted to leave and come home. Within the hour she changed her mind and blamed herself for the fight.  She even lied to me about that relationship, said there was never one.  I want her back. But I am also afraid of what s will do next or the new lies. She seem to do worse every year without fail. I want her to get therapy to get her life back on track and I'd like her to have a better relationship with me. I gave up on normal a long time ago. I am tired of being blamed for her bad choices. Right now I believe she could be on the path to going prison. Its scary.