How much time do I need?

[DogLoverMom]

I am planning on exiting my marriage with my uBPDh. I work in anesthesia. My husband is a stay at home dad to a 9 and 12 year old, who doesn't do much at home, but does take them to taekwondo one to two times a week and is home when the kids get home from school. I have very little time to speak with attorneys without him knowing but am trying to line up some consultations in the next two weeks.
We have no family nearby and with how demanding my job is while I'm there, I need to have my work schedule figured out to be able to care for my kids appropriately. For example, I frequently work 12 hour shifts and do at least one 16 hour overnight shift a month.
I will be filing the divorce with an order of protection for me and our boys. My uBPDh is emotionally abusive and will still pull my kids by their ears when explaining how the loaded the dishwasher wrong and other trivial things. He has also used his physical presence to block me from leaving the house on multiple occasions over the last year, one of which, the police were called.
I have two weeks off in a row in August right before the kids start school. My hope is to serve him the papers at the beginning of that vacation and have him go to an inpatient psych unit. He has threatened suicide multiple times this year and recently had an emotional breakdown with screaming and crying because I didn't want to hangout with him alone the morning after we got in a fight.
Does that timeline seem reasonable to get things figured out? My next vacation isn't until the first week of November.

[Pook075]

August is four months out so yeah, I don't see a problem with timelines in order to get all the legal and housing stuff in order.  But I was a little thrown when you mentioned an order of protection and an in-house stay four months out- if there's actual danger, that's an eternity away.  If the kids (or you) aren't safe then it feels like things should move much faster.

[kells76]

Hi DLM;

Have you considered reaching out to a DV hotline, especially one that's local? They have experience and skill with helping people plan exits from difficult relationships. Given that your H has been physical with the kids, and that you have a challenging work schedule, it could help to get some feedback and expertise from them, especially ideas that maybe you haven't thought of yet. And they may also give you some validation, that yes, your plan is as good as you can do right now.

Anyone can call a DV hotline for support; you don't have to meet "expected" requirements (like, "well, I'm not getting hit or beaten or slapped, so I can't call"). I called a local hotline last year due to some things the kids told us about their stepdad's behaviors and issues with Mom's house. They were good listeners, validating, supportive, and fundamentally a place where I could just talk about what was going on and get feedback that helped me feel like I wasn't crazy.

Could be worth a try, as one more tool in your toolbelt as you prep for an exit. When you do call, let us know how it goes and what they suggest.

[HurtAndTired]

Hi DLM,

I want to echo Kells advice about calling the DV hotline. I am also planning an exit from my marriage to my dBPDw. While she has not ever been physically abusive (that I know of) to our S3 - soon to be S4, she has been verbally, emotionally, and physically abusive to me around him. When I called the DV hotline, I was worried that I would not be believed as a man who was being abused by his wife. Thankfully, my fears were misplaced. Not only did they listen, but they connected me to a local DV center that appointed me a social worker/advocate with whom I check in on once a week. This advocate has helped me plan what to do in the pre-divorce period I find myself in (I am planning on exiting next January/February to give myself time to get my financial house in order).

The other thing that I wanted to mention is that you need to get as much documentation as possible. If you can get a hidden video camera/hidden body camera to record video of any physical abuse of the kids, it will serve you well in court and with custody. Ditto with audio recordings of any threats and/or abusive language, especially around the kids (bad mouthing you in front of the children is considered parental alienation, which courts really frown on). Without documentation you will end up in a he said/she said situation. Documentation could also help with the protective order and/or commitment. I am using Evernote to make short, daily entries on what kinds of dysregulation my wife has been displaying that day. I also note when I have video and/or audio evidence tied to that event.

My lawyer has said the same thing to me. Document, document, document. You want to be in the best position possible when you finally do go to court. During this time period before initiating divorce proceedings, it is critical that you gather evidence that will show, beyond any doubt, behaviors that your husband has been very careful to keep hidden inside the home. As the spouses of pwBPD, we know intimately how disordered they are. However, courts do not know, or in many cases, care what we have to say about it. We need to have proof.

I will close by saying that I know how hard it must have been to reach this decision point. I struggled with it for years. You are being incredibly brave and are doing what is best for yourself and your children. Remind yourself of that if you ever have moments of doubt or weakness. Also, remind yourself that although your husband is mentally ill, he is in full control of his behavior. This is why he is able to limit his misbehavior to happening behind closed doors and presents as normal when in public. You can hope that he gets the help he needs, but that is ultimately his problem. Your only concern right now needs to be about your safety and the safety of the kids. As my lawyer said to me, "You can't be a good dad to your son if your wife kills you." That moment was a serious reality check for me, as she has assaulted me in ways that could have killed me on multiple occasions. While I don't think that she has ever had the intent to kill me, I believe that she is capable of doing it during a rage.

Stay strong, and let us know if there is any way that we can help or any specific questions you have.

HurtAndTired

[try2heal]

Hi DLM,

I want to echo Kells advice about calling the DV hotline. I am also planning an exit from my marriage to my dBPDw. While she has not ever been physically abusive (that I know of) to our S3 - soon to be S4, she has been verbally, emotionally, and physically abusive to me around him. When I called the DV hotline, I was worried that I would not be believed as a man who was being abused by his wife. Thankfully, my fears were misplaced. Not only did they listen, but they connected me to a local DV center that appointed me a social worker/advocate with whom I check in on once a week. This advocate has helped me plan what to do in the pre-divorce period I find myself in (I am planning on exiting next January/February to give myself time to get my financial house in order).

The other thing that I wanted to mention is that you need to get as much documentation as possible. If you can get a hidden video camera/hidden body camera to record video of any physical abuse of the kids, it will serve you well in court and with custody. Ditto with audio recordings of any threats and/or abusive language, especially around the kids (bad mouthing you in front of the children is considered parental alienation, which courts really frown on). Without documentation you will end up in a he said/she said situation. Documentation could also help with the protective order and/or commitment. I am using Evernote to make short, daily entries on what kinds of dysregulation my wife has been displaying that day. I also note when I have video and/or audio evidence tied to that event.


HurtAndTired

I just want to remind you to be really careful here. Ask at least 1 of the attorneys you consult with what the laws are about recordings in your state and what family judges think about recording of children. This is touchy territory!

[HurtAndTired]

Thanks for the reminder about recording laws. My state is a single-party consent state (38 states and DC are all single-party consent for recording conversations you are a part of). Also, generally one has the right to record things in their own home and record their own children. Multiple-party consent is generally about recording phone conversations and other situations where someone has an expectation of privacy (business meetings, etc.). Asking an attorney and/or a local DV advocate should clear up any doubt.

That being said, a recording to prove your innocence in an accusation of child abuse, or DV (common accusations pwBPD make against partners when divorcing) could short-circuit such false accusations and save you a lot of time, heartache, and money defending yourself. It's better to have the recordings and not need them than to need them and not have them.

[PeteWitsend]

...
Does that timeline seem reasonable to get things figured out? My next vacation isn't until the first week of November.

One bit of advice here: I was also the primary breadwinner in my marriage, and had a very demanding job and schedule at the time.  I didn't put as much effort into managing the terms and path of my divorce, mainly because I was trying to minimize time off from work.

I had a really demanding and manipulative boss at the time, who was not very understanding of my situation, (she didn't have kids OR family) and so I was juggling that and the divorce proceedings, and it came back to bite me at times later on.  And the company I was working for at the time went bankrupt a year later, and I got a new job with a much better boss and more flexibility, and ended up being able to be present more, but had surrendered more custody time than I should have out of consideration for the demands of that first job.

ALL THAT is to provide some context here as to why you may want to consider taking a little more time off to account for timing issues and ensure you can be present at court hearings and such. 

Two weeks may not be enough time, especially considering you're relying on third parties here (courts, attorneys, and a potentially suicidal and unpredictable StbXH).

If you trust your boss, you may want to give them a heads up or at least prepare for having to take more time off, including FMLA leave for a month, in order to ensure you can get your household re-situated on firm ground post divorce.

[ForeverDad]

It is wise to have multiple back-up plans.  While your spouse may be messed up mental health-wise, many are expert manipulators and have an eerie ability (learned over their lifetimes) to detect when your attitude changes.  Since he may change behaviors to address any of your changes, you need flexibility to switch to other what-if strategies.  Believe us, there will be curve balls coming your way.

[try2heal]

I wanted to add another voice to the chorus about communicating with a domestic violence service provider. Suicidality of an abusive partner is a high risk factor for your own safety. Do some safety planning ahead of time, both for how to manage your home when you get him out and for how to get out if you need to before you planned.
In terms of documenting: video and recordings aren't the only kinds of documents. Keep a file or notebook or calendar where you include *only* information you would be comfortable sharing in court. Dates and times of threats or abusive incidents, for example, with details. Update it as soon as you can (depending on where you safely keep it) so that it is a "contemporaneous" record admissible as evidence.

[ForeverDad]

One caution about reporting poor behavior, even suicidal ideation - not that reporting is bad, just that you need to be prepared for how the other may respond - is that if denied then it may end up being viewed as "he-said, she said" hearsay and largely ignored.

For example, if the police or emergency responders are called and arrive but the other denies, you would be advised to have proof of what really did transpire.  Proof would be witnesses (preferably not young minors since you don't want little children drawn into adult matters) or recordings of what was really said or threatened.

There may be a time element to consider.  A threat may be more "actionable" if it is reported sooner than later.

Even more legally "actionable" is if children are threatened.  You as an adult are not seen as needing the same level of protection as a child.

My example is if you call emergency responders "My ex threatened to burn the house down last month..."  The likely response would be "Call back when it's an ongoing emergency."  Do you perceive that an old threat, even a despicable one, can age out quickly and become ho-hum?

However, on the flip side, even reporting something promptly can have limited benefit.  My separation was triggered when I reported my ex's threat (IWKY).  It was illegal to do so.  However, after repeated continuances the trial eventually started.  I could tell it was essentially a formality.  It quickly wrapped up, less than an hour, and the judge promptly declared her Not Guilty, not by law, but by case law.  That other decision - case law - involved a drunk guy saying he'd shoot his wife but he didn't even have a gun.  My ex wasn't drunk but judge stated no one reported her having a weapon in her hands.

All was not lost.  There were a few benefits to that case.  (1) It gave me time to conclude the marriage really was ended. (2) I was granted possession of the home in the TPO so she never had an opportunity to kick me out.  She couldn't have afforded it anyway but the financial aspect was simpler since I just had to pay her half the equity. (3) She was twice shy to claim DV so she focused instead on fear of child abuse, which was horrendous to deal with in itself.

[DogLoverMom]

Thank you all for the information, advice and support. As I'm sure a lot of you know, the second guessing and anxiety of actually ending things is immense. I am also struggling with guilt, as I have probably been the only person who my husband has any type of trust in, so "betraying" that trust has been extremely anxiety-provoking. I know it is something that has to be done in order to give my boys (and me) a more stable and happy life.
I don't believe we are in any immediate danger, or I would have a much more expedited timeline. I am meeting with my boss on Monday to discuss my schedule in August after I get back from vacation to see what type of flexibility they can offer. I have heard from a coworker who has a NPD husband who is recovering from alcoholism that they have been kind to her, which is reassuring.
I do have some audio recordings of his rages (ranging from October 24 to now) and even a suicide threat that happened 11/2024. I had called 988 at the time and spoke to someone for a while but because my husband fled the house, nothing happened. When he finally came home, he did deny it ever happening. I never told him about the recording.
I do need to be better about keeping a daily log and will do so from now on.
I have lived in North Carolina since July of 2023, which is a single-party consent state. All recordings have happen here. We used to live in Illinois, which wasn't.
I do think having multiple backup plans is a good idea. I should start slowly sneaking some clothes for me and the boys each day I go to work so I can have a "go" bag ready.

[ForeverDad]

As the acrimonious conflict increased, I did record.  But when things got better (actually, less bad) I would delete them.  Once I realized the marriage really was imploding without a future hope, I managed to stop sabotaging myself.  Court didn't care about our "bickering", always studiously silent about what transpired.  It remained relatively silent but surely not so blind that it didn't get a sense of deep issues. But a few of the recordings, especially as relating to Children's Protective Services, did serve to document the difference between who was the aggressor and who was not abusing the kids.

In all my time here since 2006 - and we've heard of some really awful divorce conflict - only a very few times, not even a handful - did family courts concern themselves with blocking recording, whether in one or two party recording states.  In those very few cases the court ordered the litigants not to involve the children by recording them.  Clearly, it was to protect the minor children from being drawn into the adult conflict.  It appears, as was already mentioned here, that those recording laws apply more to the professional realm.

[PeteWitsend]

Thank you all for the information, advice and support. As I'm sure a lot of you know, the second guessing and anxiety of actually ending things is immense. I am also struggling with guilt, as I have probably been the only person who my husband has any type of trust in, so "betraying" that trust has been extremely anxiety-provoking. I know it is something that has to be done in order to give my boys (and me) a more stable and happy life.

Well, consider whether he even trusts you.  Sounds like he doesn't, and if he does have BPD is  incapable of actually trusting anyone.  If you trust someone, you don't physically block them from leaving a house.

Don't put much - if any - stock in anything a pwBPD says.  They will say whatever they have to in order to get the result they want.  Remember, talk is cheap.

It's normal to have the feelings you're having; I struggled with a lot of guilt over "leaving my family" (even though I was moving less than a mile away), but while you grapple with your feelings, consider how much of that is based on the things a disordered person has told you, and how much of that are your true, sincere feelings.  Discount, if not completely ignore, the comments that come from a disordered mind. 

I don't believe we are in any immediate danger, or I would have a much more expedited timeline. ...

 I should start slowly sneaking some clothes for me and the boys each day I go to work so I can have a "go" bag ready.

If you are not in any immediate danger, that's good, and hopefully it stays that way regardless of what happens.  But note that when the pwBPD sees the relationship is ending, they can often escalate their behavior in order to try to save it, or prevent any dramatic change.  How far he's willing to go could be an unknown. 

While you can't and shouldn't live in fear of them, or allow their unpredictability to trap you in a miserable situation, but you should consider all the potential outcomes and have contingencies for them. 

Having a go-bag ready is good. 

A big question is "Who leaves?"  Filing for divorce doesn't automatically require one party vacate the home, and you have to consider what happens if your request that he be sent to an inpatient psych unit isn't granted, or isn't granted immediately?  You and your kids may be stuck in the house with him. 

Plan this out with your attorney; maybe it's better if you take the kids to a hotel for a week while you file?  Something like that.

In my case, I figured I would leave the house and move out on my own.  It was easier, and even though I would get half of the equity in the home, I figured a judge would award her possession of it, given that she would be the primary custodian of our kids, AND her mom lived in the home with us.  So I had a lease signed, and I had rented a storage unit and been moving my things into it on the DL, making the move out a lot quicker and avoiding any conflict at the time.