How do I maintain a relationship with an adult daughter who hates me?

[Sallyrose]

No matter what I say, she finds something to get angry about. I've been dealing with this for over 20 years. I am ready to just give up. She doesn't let me see my grandchildren. I worry about them. I don't know what to do.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Naughty Nibbler]

Welcome Sallyrose: 
I'm sorry you are having a hard time with your daughter. You say you have been dealing with this for 20 years.  How old is your daughter? How old are the grandchildren?  Is your daughter married?

You can't change her, but you can make things better by using some communication skills.  The tools in the margin to the right can be helpful. Take it a tool at a time and give them a try.

Can you give us some examples of her behavior?

[luisa1964]

Hi Sallyrose.

I have a 23 year old daughter who has just been diagnosed with BPD. We too have a grandchild,so I understand your pain so much. Luckily at the moment we are able to see her,but we worry about her living with such a volatile mother,even though she is a resilient little girl at the moment.
Because we know that at any time our daughter could refuse to let us see our granddaughter in a fit of anger which could come from literally nowhere, we cannot deal with her behaviour as we would with anyone else who is so toxic and hurtful to us. We feel trapped.
My husband is terrified of triggering responses so he avoids confrontation and prefers to overlook the way our daughter treats us. As for me, I feel emotionally scarred and drained to be honest after so many years trying to deal with her, keep our relationship going etc. I'm sure you've been there. It's difficult to talk to most of my friends or family about it.
The last thing she did a week ago was to break into our house when we were away to get her spare key to her own home, when she was drunk. Our son called the police as he thought it was a genuine break-in there was so much damage, and she did admit it in writing by text,but now denies she was ever there and blames our son because she knows we would try and get her to pay for the damage.  This has made me start to look into BPD now and I want to start to try and protect myself from the damage she causes. I know it's going to be hard because you just feel that you should be able to do something/you are somehow to blame because you are their mother.
My husband can somehow shut down to the emotional hurt much more than I can, but I try to explain that the grief and guilt of having such a difficult mother-daughter relationship is becoming too much to bear.
If you would like to try to work this out together, I would be happy to, as maybe two minds are better than one (or one and a husband!)I have ordered books from Amazon and maybe they will have ideas to help... .

'Luisa'

[abcdef1]

Luisa 1964 I could have written both your post and the OP post. I too ordered books from amazon to try to make sense of this nightmare. here is what I just posted:
 I just had an interaction (phone call) from my Grandkids who told me they cannot come any more because 'Mommy doesnt like to spend time at your house'. They sounded miserable. I am broken. They are the only reason why I even care if I have any contact with my BPD daughter. SHe is only pain and those kids are only joy. I asked her if I could skype and she said no she doesnt like to skype and it 'wouldnt work out' (without trying it). Please help me deal with this.
So you are both correct in that my 29 yr old is doing exactly what you fear. maybe all 3 of us can help each other... .

[luisa1964]

Hi abcdef1!

Yes, I saw your post and recognised the type of situation myself, ESPECIALLY:
They are the only reason why I even care if I have any contact with my BPD daughter. SHe is only pain and those kids are only joy.

I think working things through together is a great idea... .sounds like we all need moral (or emotional) support! After I had posted, I looked at lots more posts and couldn't believe the similarities in experiences that everyone was describing.I just kept thinking -good god - that could be us!

Just reading through has actually 'validated' my own feelings. I feel so guilty saying that I can't stand, no, let's be honest -  hate - my daughter most of the time. I've expressed my feelings at work before to friends and can see that some of them are quite shocked! (I keep it to just one friend now, who understands because of her own situation.)
I force myself to try to be understanding even though I want nothing to do with her, but of course, we couldn't do without our 5 yr old granddaughter... .and she will need us for stability.

I can't believe your daughter is just the same at 29. It makes me think that my husband (and everything I've read so far!) is right in saying that it's important that we help ourselves to change our responses to them, as it doesn't seem that BPD improves over time.
Does your daughter know she has BPD?  Have you tried any of the Tools? Do they work?
I did notice think that those of us who no longer have to live with our BPD sufferers are possibly better off... .? I still remember the teenage horrors when she lived at home.

I'm having a think about what you/I could do to deal with all this. Our problem (and the one I always come back to) is that we can't just cut off,which is what we really need to do to keep ourselves sane. For us,having a 'respite' break from them means the aching sadness of not seeing our grandchildren doesn't it?

D'you know, though, this week when S wouldn't speak to us because of the break-in thing and because we 'treat her brother differently and HE gets away with ****ing murder', I thought I wasn't going to see K because her mother had said yet again she was sick of the lot of us, but I forced myself to go round there anyway, didn't mention the 'war' and to be honest - I got what I wanted and also couldn't then be accused of 'not caring about K anyway'.
I wonder if you could go over there and force yourself to do what I did? How would she react, d'you think?
Sorry -this could read a little rambling - it's getting late here!

The words I use all the time are:'treading on egg-shells' and 'playing the game'. We're all saying the same!

x

[luisa1964]

PS. Sallyrose - I just wanted to say that we could all 3 help each other... .?

[Distressed Mothe]

I am in the same position as the rest of you. I have put up with her awful behavior towards me for probably 20 years. There was another blow up over nothing again last summer. I finally decided to just give up. I am not allowed to have any contact with my granddaughters soon to be 13 and 15. I never thought I would make that sacrifice of not being a part of their lives but I am done doing everything for her and for the girls and still being subjected to horrifying behavior. This last time she wrote that she was disowning me and I would never see her and the girls again. My Christmas gifts were returned. I have had peace in my life since last summer. My husband probably suffers from a similar disorder and the two of them have ganged up against me. He is living near her in Florida while I am in our home up North. It really becomes a question of just how much you can take. I was definitely suicidal. It has been a hard climb back to where I am today. In the past, I would literally beg her to let me back in her life. I cried buckets of tears. I am no longer willing to do that. I am learning to look after myself, to put me first. In my case, I cannot think of anything that I could do to get her and my grandchildren back into my life. I am 70 years old now. I never thought my end years would be like this.

[luisa1964]

Hi distressed mother. I'm so sorry you feel like this. From what I have read, girls take it out on their mothers more and I certainly experience this. I notice that my daughter always has to have someone on her side, as if she needs to drive a wedge to feel in control and as I'm more likely to say something about her unacceptable behaviour, it's more likely to be her dad that she chooses,but it has very occasionally been her brother when she feels we are both to blame.
I don't know how you cope with not seeing your grandchildren. We dread this happening to us. I have read about 'grandparents rights' and although it's not happening in the UK yet, I wondered if you have any legal rights yet in the US as you're usually ahead of us. Please don't give up. It must be so hard without a partner to support you in this,but you have as much right to see them as he does, and I really hope you find the strength and a way to insist upon seeing them.
x

[Lollypop]

Hi there Sallyrose, Luisa1964, Distressedmother, abcdef1

I just wanted to say hello and that I'm so sorry you're going through this. It's wonderful that you've found each other for mutual support as you navigate a way forwards for yourselves.

It's great that you're reading as much as you can about BPD. I found that this helped me not react as I better understood my BPDs26 challenges and limitations. He feels safe now that I do not react and this has helped our relationship.

I wanted to say that improving my communication skills with my BPDs26 has also been key to helping with my relationship with him.  I accepted I couldn't change him but I could change my approach to him. Goodness knows, I'd tried absolutely everything else and nothing worked.  Finally, I got back to basics.

Sallyrose, can you give an example of what your daughter gets angry about?

L

[Deep roots]

Hello I am very new to this site also. My daughter is 36 and has 3 children. I just recently realized that she must have BPD and I am reading books also and trying to get educated and develop skills not only to try to have a better relationship but to help myself cope. We were a very close family and my daughter did develop some problems in college but it seems that the past 3 years she has totally changed. As her mom I am the one who she blames for everything.
    Learning that she has BPD has helped in several ways. Now I understand WHY she behaves the way she does, and why she blames me, and why she is irrational etc. But learning that your child has a brain disorder is devistating. I have to give up hoping to have a normal relationship with her. I cry at least once everyday. right now I don't want to go out and be with people in general. I need some time. I do see my son and his wife and 2 children and babysit too. I just received a beautiful text from my daughter- in- law who stated that I was such a blessing to her and her girls and she went on to say why etc. I was very happy to feel so appreciated BUT I immediately just cried because that is how my BPD daughter should feel. I was there for her and her 3 kids for years and now she is just trashing me.
  Since Christmas she isn't talking to me or my husband. I asked if we could come visit in March and she said no- she is taking a break from us because of our last disagreement (when she had a temper tantrum and accused me of lots of things and mocked me.) so this is the first time that we can't see our grandkids.
   So to the moms who are hurting you are not alone. I am hurting so bad at times my bones ache. I had to call my old social worker counselor/friend to have my feelings validated. I told him I was grieving. And he understood and said any parent does not want to hear that your child is ill and it is especially hard when it is a mental illness. And I am adding my own comment also ... .And it is especially even harder when the illness causes the child you love to despise you for no reason at all. It is a triple wammy.
   As one mom stated that she can't talk to her friends because they don't understand... .well my husband was sick last year with bipolar mania and he blamed me for everything until he got well on new medication. How will anyone understand that my husband and daughter both were my enemies? They will think there must be something wrong with me if they both had a problem with me! I feel so alone. I am glad I can connect with you moms. Your stories make me feel sad but on the other hand you not only validate my feelings but help me feel sane.

[abcdef1]

I needed to reply to all of you, and welcome to our newest poster. I cannot believe that this could drag on for life. I recently realized that something was VERY wrong and spoke to a therapist who asked me to read up on BPD/NPD and sure enough, I found this boar and yes, it was exactly my daughter. the latest thing was this death in the family, where she raged, blamed me and mocked me. I understand that you dont want to socialize now, just retreat... .I look arond at all my friends with theri married kids and grandkids, all around, happy... and I grieve for myself. As you said, I cannot believe that this is my life!
I know the death had its effect bc she has gotten much worse ever since that time. I am in NC now except for a call once weekly (I offered to skype, etc because she and the kids live about 2 hrs away, but was rejcted immediately. Iand have ordered books and read many things on this site that have helped me. I have a loving supportive husband who is going through this too but who is dealing with it much better than I am (she also doesnt abuse him the way she does me). He is able to emotionally detach from DD and the grandkids much easier than me and that helps too bc he guides me through my own emotions. He says we have to live for US and focus on our lives... possibly move to another state... what do you think? I dont want this to be the rest of my life... .chasing her and the kids... .and he refuses to be manipulated by her.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[luisa1964]

Yes, my husband is exactly the same - I envy him sometimes... .and no, I can't believe that this could drag on for life, but it is beginning to dawn on me and that's why I have to do something about it - I can't go on like I have been doing - depressed (suicidal thoughts at times -  only the thought of leaving my granddaughter has stopped me going further than considering it as a way out), with a feeling in my stomach like a pit of grief and just the sadness of not having a 'normal' mother-daughter relationship. Our daughter is adopted and her BPD clearly comes from when she was 3 when her birth-mother didn't protect her from her junkie boyfriend's physical abuse. We knew she had baggage, we knew she wasn't bonding like her younger brother, or like we would expect her to have done after years with us, but we thought she would grow out of this 'attachment disorder' - instead it turned into this!

You talked about moving, abcdef1 - if you can do it, then yes, maybe it would be a fresh start for you and your husband. Do you think you've got to the point where you could cut off? Our marriage has certainly suffered, and I am considering moving where my husband's new job is - 2hrs away. But we'd still have to come back every two weeks to see that K was ok, so it wouldn't be completely cutting off, just a new start for us somewhere else.

This is just a thought, but could you move closer instead? And then it's easier to 'drop in' and keep the interactions short (and try some of the tools on the site at the same time?) I think you've had a lot more years of it than me, so maybe you've tried everything... .? It seems like your husband has also had enough now, too... .?

Really appreciating reading everyone's posts - it's helping. I've been thinking today about Sallyrose who started this post off, but hasn't posted again - she sounded pretty desperate. If you're reading this, Sallyrose, I hope you're ok.

L

[abcdef1]

Luisa 1964 I would not consider moving closer because then i would be subject to even more abuse and NC and i wouldnt have the friends and ppl around me i love to talk to. I also dont want to give her power over my life that way because she will then control me by doing NC whenever she wants and making me miserable up close. I cant live my life around her, despite the grandkids. I am thinking of having my husband go to talk to her since i am so angry and hurt that I dont even want to deal with her at all. what do you think about that? Other than the once weekly phone call we are in NC.

[luisa1964]

Hi abcdef1... .I totally understand you - you need the positive relationships around you, not the toxic ones. I think it's definitely worth your husband having a talk with her if he can - I know mine can be much calmer than I am - I'm too emotional! However, my husband won't actually confront her unless absolutely necessary as he's terrified to lose contact with K... .So am I, but I won't be walked over and STILL feel that I'm the only one who's going to bother to try and help her - even if it's now more like an obligation.

D'you know, I think changing the way we communicate with our BPD children is going to be the key in allowing us to feel less traumatised every time we interact with them - what do you think? I have a knot in my stomach and have to plan ahead every meeting. How do you feel during your weekly call and how does your daughter behave? Do you get chance to speak to the children when you Skype?

Perhaps you could wait till your husband has been to speak to your daughter, then arrange to go there yourself and meet her and the kids on neutral ground (yes, I know that doesn't guarantee no scenes - how many times have our family wanted to die in restaurants when she's kicked off?) After all, our main goal is to see our grandchildren. That's why I'm ignoring my daughter's attempts to wind us up about 'not having broken into your house and being p****d off with you all' and all the recent abusive texts. So far so good - another meeting tomorrow... .I'm going to keep it neutral... .wish me luck.

I understand when you say you're angry and hurt. I think it's difficult for others to understand unless they've witnessed the behaviour first-hand. I'm hoping to come to a neutral position in my feelings towards her - I need to lower my expectations.

When's your next call?

[abcdef1]

Hi  Luisa. We only speak on fridays really. I just reached out to her and asked if she wanted to cocme talk to us when her ex has he kids and she said no. So thats it for now. She has limited her contact to a fb post or two and that 2 min call. My hub decided not to talk to her now bcc based on what we read she would not be receptive now.She feels we are all 'black' (splitting) and is obviously not interested in us. She also has a (transitory) guy in her life that now she can get 'support' from so she is not all alone (he will be gone of course, she cant sustain any relationship)but when she has anyone else she throws us away.He is 'white'. She is just getting worse. Refuses to even acknowledge that she is the problem... .and no we dont get to talk to the kids either, except for about a aminute every 2 weeks, no skype, etc. WIshing you success with your situation as well and no its gotten worse here, not better. The only thing better about NC is I have peace with hubs... .but no grandkids... .so I dont know if it's really better. Sending hugs  

[luisa1964]

Hi abcdef1!

It was really great to see your message - I haven't looked on here since I last saw my daughter on Wednesday as I suddenly felt so down, desperate and depressed again. Just a dragging feeling of emptiness really. So much for feeling more positive. At least it lasted a week, though - that's progress!

One thing that has definitely remained better actually, is that I no longer care that she takes it out much more on me than on her dad, as I can see from this site that that's a VERY common trademark!

I feel SO cross, too, that she can make me feel/I 'allow her to make me feel' so awful even when she's not even yelling... .she just refused to speak to me/look me in the eye except to answer with one word when I asked her about work to break the silence. Ah well, I was only there to see K... .

Think this trying to feel neutral during/after I see her is going to need a LOT more work than I thought.

Interesting concept this 'black' and 'white' thing your daughter has going on. It really is like that, isn't it - you're either fantastic or you're a piece of dirt under their shoe. Our daughter has very few friends as we live in a small-ish town and everyone's 'black' of course! Her lovely -ex only sticks around now because of K., but I have a feeling he thinks she'll change or he can change her... .poor lad!

'Refuses to even acknowledge that she is the problem... ': so true - always and without exception.

Yes, great that you don't have the friction between you and hubby (know that one so well) but you really shouldn't have to give up the grandkids.

I know I keep suggesting things and it's easy for me to say (so feel free to ignore!), but how about arranging to go up there one weekend soon, offering to take the children out for the day/afternoon and making it very clear that you're not coming over to get involved with discussions about you and her and say that you'll just pick up the kids and drop them off as you know that she doesn't want to see you at the moment. You could say straight out that you both really miss the children and that's why you want to come. You've probably tried it already... .just a thought

I'm going to have to suffer her every Wednesday if I want to see K, but I'm determined she's not going to be able to turn round and say at some point soon, that we 'don't even care about her... .and stop us seeing her... .

Well, my hubby's on his way home from Bath for the weekend, so at least I will hopefully feel better for a hug! (Thanks for the ones you sent me - they were timely!)

Have a lovely weekend... .x

[abcdef1]

Hi Luisa. yes we are doing that soon on a sunday. However she will never let us go without her, part of her NPD/BPD where she needs total control of everything. We have offered but she says 'they are only 5' and I need to be there... Trust issues are a huge thing, she doesnt even trust their dad with them and I worry daily about them. Driving there is really not an option, she makes us very uncomfortable, her place is a sty and she wants us to leave asap. much better on our turf where she can leave as she pleases. We also never know what may trigger her so the visit cnan last an hour or 4 hours and its a really long drive. At least if she rages its on my turf so I am home. Sunday was her idea, not ours, we remain NC until she reaches out, bc if we chase her she treats us like garbage. I hear your painas it is mine as well. Hope yr weekend was lovely.

[Glenna]

Hi Distressed Mothe r,

I empathize with you so much and feel so sorry for your pain. My daughter is 37 and has been living in my apt for nearly a year now with her two sons, 11 and 13. I posted 10 months ago about the hellish life I was living, and amazingly, it is nearly the same now. She is no better. The only difference is that I have 'come out' more about it. I am going to a family connections course on DBT which is actually more valuable as a place to meet other parents of BPD children than for the DBT tools. While I think they are excellent and will try to incorporate them into my life, I am afraid that my daughter has too much of a need to rage and hate me for any change in me to affect her. If one thing doesn't work as a reason to hate me and rage and insult me for hours, she'll find another. She has succeeded in turning the older boy, whom I loved so dearly, away from me. I can hardly believe I wrote 'loved' rather than love. I didn't intend to. I fear that constant unkindness, hurt, and the insane twisting of reality to make me a villain that he now participates in, has resulted in my cooling towards him. What a tragedy! We had a wonderful relationship.

My mother turned my father and my two brothers against me. I find this to be such madness I can't even fathom it!

I'm sorry your husband is the way he is. The only hope I believe is to detach from people like this. I just can't accept that a person has their heart broken thousands of times and still has to allow it to happen again.

I pray for contentment and peace for you, and even happiness!

Glenna