SO's (uBPD) D19 is moving back in with us

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

  I'm so happy for both of you!

  Good boundaries are their own reward! You didn't let yourself get pulled into participating in the tarball of SO's feelings about this mess... .which would have distracted him from noticing them and dealing with them.

So he was able to sort this out and do better!

  Now he's going to do better at having boundaries with D19. Staying out of HER tarball of needy feelings. It will give her a better chance of coping with them on her own.

[Grey Kitty]

  I'm so happy for both of you!

  Good boundaries are their own reward! You didn't let yourself get pulled into participating in the tarball of SO's feelings about this mess... .which would have distracted him from noticing them and dealing with them.

So he was able to sort this out and do better!

  Now he's going to do better at having boundaries with D19. Staying out of HER tarball of needy feelings. It will give her a better chance of coping with them on her own.

[livednlearned]

Good boundaries are their own reward! You didn't let yourself get pulled into participating in the tarball of SO's feelings about this mess... .which would have distracted him from noticing them and dealing with them.

So he was able to sort this out and do better!

Thanks GK.

Being a good listener, staying in my own lane, being vulnerable -- I cannot overstate how hard the lessons were to get to this point, and how easy it was to do it once we were in that moment. And like you point out, those were the conditions needed for him to recognize what is going on with him. I coulda saved him so much time if he just let me lecture him for hours  

Now he's going to do better at having boundaries with D19. Staying out of HER tarball of needy feelings. It will give her a better chance of coping with them on her own.

We'll see about that   altho certainly the odds are better that things tip that way.

Today we spent some time getting my home office fixed up. I'll start working from home full-time this summer, and SO has been so supportive and helpful. It occurred to me he wants me to have a safe place in the house when the girls are here. And then I realized he doesn't want to hear me complain about them all summer   Well played, SO. Well played.

D19 will be here for spring break so I'll have a chance to see if things change when she's here. I'm looking for tiny little changes, nothing more. Just some signs that SO has connected the dots.

And to also realize that I don't have to back pedal away when their dynamic irritates me. If anything, I think if I spend more (structured, limited) time with D19, and am more affectionate with SO in front of D19, our triangle dynamic might shift. D19 may sense that her dad is emotionally close and bonded with me, and she may feel safe and secure with me. And that could mean her neediness dials down to a level that's easier for all of us to manage.

[Grey Kitty]

I coulda saved him so much time if he just let me lecture him for hours 

  ... .Same for D19!   

As far as my optimistic hopes in the last reply, I'm not saying that D19 will get it.

I'm absolutely not saying she will get it quickly, or without a bumpy road full of setbacks!

I'm saying that the way SO played into her needy/clingy stuff before pretty much guaranteed she wouldn't get it.

And that's now slated for some changes. And yeah, that road will have a few bumps too

Meanwhile, having SO's support in setting up your home office sounds really sweet.  I think this guy loves you or something!

[livednlearned]

I think this guy loves you or something!

What's not to love 

 

I'm pretty sure last summer he could think of a few things not to love.

 

[ForeverDad]

SO's oldest daughter (23) will be moving in with us this summer, too, and living here for 2 years while she finishes graduate school. D23 is pretty well-adjusted and we get along well.

I think D23 would be a good resource in addition to SO, you could gently guide/validate her into effective skills with her sister, hopefully take some pressure off you.  Much of the time she wouldn't have to do much more than guiding nudges or simple No here and there.

SO wants to be needed.
D19 is needy.

Bam.

Case solved.

Good thing you're there to reset SO with objective observations or the dynamic could get out of hand or even toxic.

[livednlearned]

Good thing you're there to reset SO with objective observations or the dynamic could get out of hand or even toxic.

  I will be sure to tell him that.

At this point I think less is more. I've said a lot already. Maybe an arched eyebrow or two. Or a hand on his arm from time to time.

D19 will be here for spring break. I'll be here for 4 days of that break, and I'm kinda curious how it will be.

New for this visit:

*be more explicit when I feel my boundaries getting trampled
*maintain the same level of affection with SO even when D19 is there
*spend more intentional structured time with D19

I realized that a lot of my angst came from expecting SO to protect me, or to at least act better. The difference now is that I took back this responsibility. Here's hoping I can pull off this new and improved LnL  

[heartandwhole]

Here's hoping I can pull off this new and improved LnL  

I have full confidence in you, LnL !   Great breakdown of your goals.

[Grey Kitty]

D19 will be here for spring break. I'll be here for 4 days of that break, and I'm kinda curious how it will be.

Is this woman who is looking forward to trying new things over spring break the same person who was terrified about how she would survive the summer? 

[livednlearned]

Is this woman who is looking forward to trying new things over spring break the same person who was terrified about how she would survive the summer? 

 

Yep.

Although, with 4 days, you can count the hours.

With 3 months, there is more counting!

[Klera]

Hi LNL,

I wish I had all the answers for you! (and a beach house for the summer).  When I read everything, it's like .    I can't think of anything more stressful or disturbing than to feel my home was about to be invaded and held hostage. And please excuse this description but 'domestic terrorist' comes to mind.     Our homes should be the no. 1 safe place for us.  Basic human rights, yes? Safety and happiness.   Regardless of being only a year with your SO, your main priority should be taking care of yourself, your child, your SO, and your home/sanctuary together.     It's our instinct to protect ourselves and our loved ones, especially in our own territory.   Danger means fear, fear means you protect, that something is threatening your happiness and safety.    A lovely gift from ancestor survival school.     See where I'm going?   You have nothing to apologize for, justify, rationalize etc.  Your feelings are never wrong and they are there for a reason.  D (daughter)=danger...  

1.  You and your SO:   I'm sorry this is so hard - FEAR.   It's coming between you two.  It's NORMAL, it's what keeps us alive, quite frankly.   It's how we deal with it &/or use it to our advantage.  Communicate, talk, yell, but for goodness' sake communicate with each other.  If you truly love each other kick that fear to the curb where it belongs (and hopefully down into the sewer drain).     The D is unwell and he knows it.   He needs to feel safe and give himself permission to not only help himself but to deal with this, look it straight in the eye with himself and you, all of it.  You have battle scars!  you've done this, it's okay.   It's the only way to tackle it. And yes, it's scary and terrifying.  There HAS to be a (better) solution for the summer.  You deserve it, he deserves it, everyone does (remember happiness and safety?)   If the D was healthy and 'normal' (here's that labelling again) then that's one thing but knowing that she isn't, (and you even have a label for it!) and that terrifies you, saddens you, angers you... .whatever those are symptoms too, or danger signs that you can't ignore them or pretend otherwise.  Please bear with me, there's more... .

2.  D:  You had me at suicidal     I don't know about you, but I wouldn't open my door to someone potentially suicidal  that alone have her live there with you, knowing what you know and have already experienced (her other behaviour) so far.      I am SO sorry to write this, I want to be brutally honest.  I am so sorry that you two have to deal with an unwell child or (fill in the blank), BPD and everything that comes with it...   And yes, she is emotionally still a child even though she is 19.  I'm not a psychologist or a professional.  Anything I say here, is simply my personal opinion.    Yes, he is her father but unless he is well enough or able  to, even though willing to have her come to stay, haven't you both suffered enough?  It doesn't work.  She needs help that you can't give her.   He isn't establishing healthy boundaries, he isn't guiding or teaching her.  I don't like the term victim but I've seen what being around toxic, unwell family members can do.   He is enabling her and that, my friend is not a good thing.  I'm sure he wants the best for everyone, being the pleaser that often is the case.  Self sacrifice/exhaustion cycle is our speciality.     I cannot tell you what decisions to make of course.   I don't believe that you should be or deserve to be made to feel like a victim in your own home.       But think about it:  You and your SO DO have a choice.  You can protect yourselves, your sanity, your relationship, and make your home a rock solid fortress sanctuary or open the door and allow the dangerous, invader and fear to come blowing through the entire house making everything toxic for everyone.   

I hope I've helped in some way?... .I like to be blunt and honest when I write.

cheers

[ForeverDad]

And please excuse this description but 'domestic terrorist' comes to mind.     Our homes should be the no. 1 safe place for us.

Or 'emotional terrorist'.  BPD is all about emotional, mood and cognitive/perception dysfunctions.

[DreamGirl]

I don't like using the term "terrorist" in creative ways when it comes to these family members. Only because catastrophic language tends to start putting us in a place where we feel we don't have control of what's being done. A victim stance really which becomes martyrdom... .and that is the breeding ground for resentment.

Because we do have control.

And we have the ability to implement healthy boundaries.

And we can analyze how our own behavior is helping/hurting the situation.

I think LnL is trying really hard to keep all that in balance.

It's how all healthy relationships work really.

I'd like to think that part of my trying to move away from the dysfunctional relationships I've been known to be a part of (my dad, my brother, my ex, etc.) is to not participate in the dysfunction but also accept that others have some learning to do.

I also understand that for some of us, we don't want to (for whatever reason) just walk away from family members sometimes. No matter how much easier it would make our life.  I would have to exhaust every single possible avenue before I would ever be able to walk away from my child - and even then, I don't see that happening.  I also can't hold that expectation of my husband and his children.

So we just keep doing different things and asking for help.

We shift, we accept, we understand, we just keep doing our best and enjoy the days that are so good and drift through the days that aren't.

It's what family is all about.

[livednlearned]

I think LnL is trying really hard to keep all that in balance.

 

Also, something I learned in a mindfulness class was: pain x resistance = suffering.

With D19, or BPD behaviors in general, there is way less suffering for me if I grieve the darn thing instead of hate it. If I grieve it, then I can move on and apply skills that make things better, even if they don't make things perfect.

D19 will be here for spring break, starting this weekend.

SO asked me very sweetly to try and notice the things that are getting better (how he responds to D19) and I'm going to get on board with that.

I also understand that for some of us, we don't want to (for whatever reason) just walk away from family members sometimes.

The other side of this is that SO is super compassionate and patient with my bio child, S15.

Who is not the easiest kid.

[Klera]

I don't like using the term "terrorist" in creative ways when it comes to these family members. Only because catastrophic language tends to start putting us in a place where we feel we don't have control of what's being done. A victim stance really which becomes martyrdom... .and that is the breeding ground for resentment.

I agree with you completely.  Probably not the most PC thing to say, sorry about that, but 'the term' was used by my H, describing how he and I used to feel on exchange days when we shared 50-50, week on week off, when the kids were younger.  We did feel out of control then, victim stance and hugely resentful, you betcha!  Not anymore.     Fast forward six years and now we have a fortress of boundaries she, the BPDex, does not even THINK to crash. Nothing, nada from her anymore.  Our parenting time changed to every second weekend by H due to years, hundreds of transgressions, breached agreements and it was an extremely difficult last resort move by my H that took, in itself, at least 2 more years of: 'should I really do this".  Conflict reduced, kids fine, we're fine.  Don't care about the BPD ex, she had one week off and blew it, too bad.  Welcome to boundaries.   My intent was to empathize with LNL as I recognized what she was describing she goes through prior to SD19 coming to stay.  I used to feel invaded and every thing under the sun when it was exchange day when the kids would come for the week, holidays or whenever.  The kids were used every single time (weaponize) to get at us and we never knew what was coming, and that we were stuck with out predicament trapped with no choice.  One should never have to feel that way.  Also not my intent to suggest we abandon our family members, of course not.    I fully admire you LNL for all you do to establish balance and the progress you are making.  Fantastic.   

cheers!       

[Grey Kitty]

D19 will be here for spring break, starting this weekend.

You knocked yourself out preparing ahead. How's the visit going? Has your and SO's hard work paid dividends?

[livednlearned]

How's the visit going? Has your and SO's hard work paid dividends?

There is some progress!

Small things. First night D19 was here, she started to cling to SO in the kitchen while he was cooking. I saw him point her to the other side of the counter and heard him say something about how he needed to move around quickly and could she sit on the other side of the counter.  

The next day, I made a point of doing something with D19, just the two of us. I could be looking for what I want to see, but I'm pretty sure that she was less frantically clingy with SO after she and I did something together  

SO is making progress with the excessive hugging. I notice that he is trying to move her to a side hug. He also gets very serious when he tells her the hug is over, and no longer tries to joke it off (which made it feel like a game to D19)  

I know these seem like small things, but just seeing SO make an effort is meaningful. I was away for 3 days on a trip and D19 leaves tomorrow, so we didn't all interact together that much.

There was a brief relapse when D19 wandered into my bathroom while I was getting dressed. This is a deep trigger for me that goes back to serious boundary issues with my privacy and bathroom/bedroom and a uBPD brother. I waited until I had calmed down enough to remind D19 that my room is off limits. She said she was looking for her dad and I repeated that my room is off limits.

My hunch is that she became clingy after a conversation we all had during dinner. We were laughing about SO's (fairly heavy) use of emojis instead of language when he texts, and D19 asked me if her dad used the thumbs up emoji with me all the time, like he does with her. SO and I looked at each other and laughed because our emojis are more of the romantic type  It's stuff like this that can make D19 feel left out. SO went to lengths to reassure D19 that she will have someone romantic in her life and will discover those emojis -- some awkward pain and conflict on her face over that. I teased SO that he will probably be the last to know... .trying to give D19 the benefit of the doubt here!

So things still feel like a lot of work, even as they seem better. One thing I noticed in myself is that I cycle between compassion and resentment. I came home from my trip yesterday feeling tired, and it was much harder to feel compassion for D19. I think she can sense this, and becomes needy. This is probably going to be an ongoing challenge for me, more than her. I have to use mindfulness skills when these feelings come up.  

So, all in all, small improvements.

I'm still planning to spend a month of the summer away from all this, taking S15 with me. I have a friend who has a cabin on the West Coast and there is enough room for S15 and I to stay there comfortably for a month or so. S15 is going to do Habitat for Humanity for teens, and I'm going to work remotely.

During the time I overlap with D19, I'll have a home office set up -- the rules will be that I'm working and won't answer knocks or texts or email.

It's never going to be a walk in the park with D19 but at least we are not without hope