Custody Evaluators yes or no?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Hello... .what is everyone's experience with Custody Evaluators that will show Parental Alienation?  Our sons attorney thinks he should get one done... .but they run between $5,000 to $7,500 thousand dollars. Everything that I have read never seems have a good out come and the few people I have ties to that have had an evaluation done say it takes 6 months to 1 year, but the Evaluatuon does say PA is going on but still suggested the kids stay with the alienating parent due to the fact that they were the stay at home parent.  I rarely hear a positive out come.  Yay or nay? 

[Panshekay]

Hello... .what is everyone's experience with Custody Evaluators that will show Parental Alienation?  Our sons attorney thinks he should get one done... .but they run between $5,000 to $7,500 thousand dollars. Everything that I have read never seems have a good out come and the few people I have ties to that have had an evaluation done say it takes 6 months to 1 year, but the Evaluatuon does say PA is going on but still suggested the kids stay with the alienating parent due to the fact that they were the stay at home parent.  I rarely hear a positive out come.  Yay or nay? 

[Thunderstruck]

Our situation isn't typical, but it has been a very bad one. We hired the CE in the summer of 2014 and here it is almost 3 years later and we STILL haven't received the report. The CE had good reviews when we hired her but since then her personal life has fallen apart (divorce, money issues, and I think child's health issues). I believe the initial retainer was something like 10k but we have had to give her extra money twice so we've spent probably 20k in total.

I think that how a CE goes really depends on the pwBPD. Some of them can pull themselves together long enough to play the "perfect parent" act. Some of them try but can't contain their behavior.

There's a thread somewhere on here where multiple members have described their experiences and outcomes with a CE.
Aha! I found it: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=74287.0

[Panshekay]

Thank you Thundestruck for doing that research.  I have found some information as well... .most of the time the parent who  wanted one done ended up being disappointed. It probably is a crap shoot but one that our son may have to pay for if he wants to save his 6yo S. BPD mothers are so good at playing the victim, women reach out to other women and are readily believed. I feel our son has to constantly defend himself when he has done nothing wrong.  Thank you for taking the time looking for that info for us. Much appreciated.

[flourdust]

Our situation isn't typical, but it has been a very bad one. We hired the CE in the summer of 2014 and here it is I think that how a CE goes really depends on the pwBPD. Some of them can pull themselves together long enough to play the "perfect parent" act. Some of them try but can't contain their behavior.

I'll have an answer to this shortly. We're getting a verbal briefing from the CE to kick off a settlement conference, and we are supposedly able to ask questions about how he came to his recommendations. My stbxBPDw has left a trail of evidence behind her demonstrating problems with parenting ... .at least, that's my interpretation. We'll see what the CE thinks.

[trappeddad]

My CE was terrible.    The CE was manipulated by my BPD ex and it has lifelong effects.   For example, I provided 7 non biased references for the CE to contact about my parenting.    My ex provided about the same amount but they were mostly family and friends.   He contacted all of her references and none of mine.     

The CE also said I had no friends in high school in court, and that was a big reason I should not have much parenting time. High school was over 30 years ago!    I have many friends now, but that did not matter to him.   

And there is no recourse!    The only way to complain is to appeal the case, and that was too costly/stressful.      These people have a license to cause significant damage and nobody oversees them.   This is at least my experience.     Sorry, I am still bitter 3 years after this CE experiment.         

Do your due diligence when hiring one of the scammer(i mean CE's)

[Panshekay]

Thanks TrappedDad. Let me know how it goes Flourdust. Seems like a crap shoot.

[trappeddad]

Another thing to keep in mind regarding CE's.  if the ce turns against you, then do not expect your lawyer to fight the CE.    the lawyers have relationships with the CE's and will not turn on them.    At least that is my experience.     

[SamwizeGamgee]

Trappeddad - I am so sorry. It must feel awful to have your life controlled by something so unjust.

This thread has been a good caution for me.  My uBPDw is a supreme Dr Jekyl and can act the martyr, saint, stay home mom.  Very emotionally persuasive.  I would fear a CE who has struck an accord with her.  Yikes!

[Panshekay]

Our sons attorney has been on the fence with it. She agrees that it's hard to find a good one. It's a tuff spot to be in.  We hope and pray they will see everything for what it truly is but the fact is she is really good at deceiving people. Lots of money without any guarantees.

[whirlpoollife]

I know of someone who just went through  CE . The child will be starting school next fall, parents live in different counties .  The custody prior to was 50/50 , from when the child was born.  Thousands of dollars , emotionally draining, trial date set. 
Outcome from a pretrial settlement it is still 50/50 , only that the mother ( the one I know)  has the school district. The father has to drive the distance to and from the school.   

For me , when I had started my divorce, in the second year of it I had asked for a CE. Kids were 12 and 14 about  at the time.   ( older I know than the six year old but I add my experience) There was major PA from my xh.  My L told me that it could just backfire on me.  At the time I was so lack of identity scared I was able to assure him that it would not. That I am not the crazy one. He then went on to say that ok let's say that it shows xh has PD's,  if the kids say they want to live with him then they do , that would override anything because they are old enough.   

[ForeverDad]

I consider the crucial factor for a solid Custody Evaluation is getting an experienced CE who is not gullible, easily fooled or conned.  I had that worry.  My lawyer recommended one he said whose reports were always accepted by the court, he phrased it "like god to the court".  Lawyer warned me that he could recommend against me, did I want to take that risk?  I said yes.

A few decades ago a popular concept was the Tender Years Doctrine where mothers were always viewed the better parent.  That has changed since then, fortunately, but there is still that bias to some extent.  Instead of "Which parent should be defaulted?" we face "Why shouldn't mother be the default?" We still see defaults to mother in many ways, especially in temp orders.  It's generally an unwritten bias that becomes the result.

My CE was a child psychologist who lectured at the local university.  At our first session he stated 50% of his eval was the parenting history.  Well, my then-stbEx had quit work when our son was born and so she had the majority history.  Some 5 months later I read the initial report that the main judge and lawyers discussed.  It wasn't even a dozen pages.  The conclusion included, "Mother cannot share 'her' child but Father can... .Mother should immediately lose her temporary custody... .If Shared Parenting is attempted and fails then Father should have custody... ."  Yes, he saw the issues and behaviors though he was careful not to make a diagnosis.  Evidently court doesn't care precisely why there is the conflict, they just deal with the parents as they are and address the behaviors.

How to get a good CE?  Better phrased, How do you ensure the ex doesn't choose a poor CE?  One approach described here that has worked for many is for you or your lawyer to make a short list of solid evaluators, then have the ex or ex's lawyer to select from that vetted list.  Court will like that since it lets both sides have a part in the selection.  But of course the key was to limit the choices to the better CEs, something you can do as a part of your strategies for success (or at least limit the downsides).

[Panda39]

My SO didn't know about BPD at all until about half way through his 2 year separation (yep the divorce took that long  ) It's been awhile so I don't remember everything anymore... .

I'm not sure what the process of selection was that they all used but I think he felt his experience was a mixed bag.  His CE felt the girls were more bonded to mom... .but in reality it was enmeshment combined with parental alienation.  She did recognize their mom's instability, no job, didn't drive, 3 evictions, and did say in court that mom's house was disgusting (and boy was it ever... .got pictures from one of the evicting landlords). 

Her report combined with my SO's documentation of neglect when it came to the girls education and healthcare helped in his case.

ForeverDad is right it's about picking someone good... .IMO I would do it with all the crazy and I do mean crazy false accusations your son has been victim to I would want a 3rd party to come in and take a look.  Yes there is risk but then there is still risk if you don't.

If he does decide to do it, my advice from my SO's experience is to keep his anger at the ex (even though he has every reason to be angry!) under wraps and make it about what is best for his son.

Panda39

[Panshekay]

Thank you ForverDad and Panda39... .I was hoping you both would comment!  Thank you for the advice.  Everything I have read basically says not to do it, but our Son and I feel like you do what you have to do to save your child.  I appreciate everyone's input.  On a side note the 7th allegation that was found "founded" is now in Salem. Our son appealed that and is awaiting DHS determination. The 9th allegation regarding the false claim of a loaded gun is still open, not sure why, but have some ideas... .let's just say things might be looking up. Going to trial/ divorce/custody the end of June.  It's been a difficult journey for sure but one that would have been so much harder without all of you. Thank you.