My uBPD married lover has contacted me 3 times

[RomanticFool]

So after nearly 10 weeks, my exuBPD married lover has contacted me 3 times, the latest which was on Saturday to check if I'm alright after the terror attacks. I replied as I thought it would be mean not to and in all honesty, I was happy to hear from her. However, the silent treatment has started since then and I am about to block her on WhatsApp. Before I do, I want to know that I am doing the right thing.

My ex has BPD traits rather than fully fledged borderline behaviour. She doesn't do the powerful rages that I've heard about on here. I figure 4 days is enough to give her a chance to explain herself, especially as she told me on Saturday that her feelings have not changed. Yesterday she chided me for going to Las Vegas which I replied to with a reminder about the time she went to Vegas (both with our respective spouses). I then replied. 'Anyway, how are you?' and she replied, 'Not good' I asked, 'Explain' and she didn't. That is the last I heard from her yesterday afternoon. I sent an 'I love you' message which also went unanswered.

Now, putting the moral issue of us both being married aside, that is something I have discussed at length on here and what is happening now is the endgame of the r/s. My own marriage will be addressed after this current 'maintenance' of the attachment attempt is over. I know very well what is going on. She has contacted me to keep herself in my mind. My final message to her was today, 'Are you seeing someone else? Is that why you aren't talking to me?' I know this is a red rag to a bull. I know she probably won't answer. But what I would like feedback on is whether it is a fair question to ask and if she doesn't reply, whether it is fair to block her on the strength of that.

She already told me on Saturday that she found my walking away from the r/s 'savage,' despite the fact that she blocked me on her phone for 4 days and disappeared for weeks on end and then announced that she couldn't see me anymore because her husband had found out about us. She then said, ':)on't worry, he doesn't know it's you.'

I am aware to most people this would sound like madness. The obvious answer is to block her, but I also know in the head of a pwBPD this will seem like an act of aggression, however justified I may feel. I am also aware that the finality of cutting her off again, so soon after she made contact, may trigger me into feeling that I've made a mistake. A big part of me wants to block her and get back to the NC, but the fact that she found me walking away 'savage' is playing on my mind. Despite everything I don't want to hurt her. Then I think about her possibly seeing somebody else and it makes me think blocking her is essential. I suppose I've asked that question because if she is seeing somebody else it makes the whole thing more clear cut. I know she is never going to admit to it but the fact that she is maintaining a silence so soon after reconnecting again suggests another intrigue is afoot. Unless the silence is to punish me. I don't know. Clarity is what I seek.

[roberto516]

I'm going to sound like a big hypocrite but clarity is only going to come from yourself. We won't get closure. We never will. They are emotional vampires. You still had some emotions left for her to take. If you don't do it for yourself then do it for me . Just stay away from her. That way you can leave with some dignity knowing that you walked away for your own self love.

[RomanticFool]

Thanks Roberto. I want to stay away. It's that thing that we discussed the other day about making absolutely certain that there is no way to salvage this r/s. In truth I don't want to go back anyway. The last 4 days have given me another taste of the emotions attached to ST again. My threshold for it is much lower and I just know that I cannot go back to this r/s. Even if she did want to reconnect with me, I would have to discuss with her about how things would need to be different and of course that it never going to happen.

When I asked her how she was yesterday and she said, 'Not good,' I just thought, 'Here we go again.' I think the fact she didn't take the opportunity to have a moan fest suggests something else is preoccupying her. In truth, I hardly care anymore. It's been almost 10 weeks of this nonsense. Three maintenance messages from her and no recycle attempt spells 'Orbiter.' There is no way in hell I am going to accept that. It was hard enough being a secondary attachment.

I am going to give her a chance to read the message on WhatsApp (you can see the times people look at their messages) and if she doesn't reply, then I will block her. I noticed she has looked at messages several times today. I don't know if that means looked for messages from me or messages in general. If it means messages in general, then she has been going on WhatsApp alot. Red flag city... .

[GuySmiley]

I'm new to WhatsApp - only downloaded it a few weeks ago at her request (been blocked and unblocked multiple times now - currently being blocked. Boo hoo.), but the fact that you can see if they've read your messages and when they were last online is a BPD/CoDep nightmare - instantly waiting for the double ticks and the online/typing message. It's just another tool that they can use against us and that we constantly check and end up gibbering and scratching ike a crackhead and devolve into a mental and an emotional wreck, desperate for some little morsel of contact - have they seen the message? Are they online? Are they typing? ... .etc. It's an emotional breakdown waiting to happen as they can block/unblock depending how cruel and abusive they want to be. Make no mistake WhatsApp can be a very, very abusive tool in the hands of a BPD.

All I can suggest is to not block, but simply delete her from your phone so you can't contact her - unless you know her mobile number by heart - and perhaps get a new mobile phone number - although I'm guessing you'll come up with several reasons or excuses to not get one - yep, I understand that one.

All the talk about it being too aggressive a move - so what? Sod her. Seriously sod her. She's got you tied up in knots and is treating you like sh*t. We all know it's a hard thing to do - because if you delete her and go full NC then yes she can and may well do go elsewhere. And as much as you say you're not bothered you don't really want that, do you?

Only those of us who truly want out will do all in our power to stop the contact, the rest of us will find some way, some small sliver of a reason or excuse and hope contact will resume but this time it will be different and we'll be strong enough not to get hurt next time. And we end up dead and stagnant inside again and again.

Basically, if you can think of an excuse to do anything other than to delete and cut her out of your life completely you're only fooling yourself.

We all are.

[RomanticFool]

Hi GuySmiley,

You are right, I should delete her. In fact I do delete her every time I speak to her, then she turns up in my hidden contacts and I genuinely don't know how to delete that. I've tried every which way. That's why I think the only conclusion is to block her. The double tick is indeed on the message so she has read it and not replied. I don't want to block her, I want to delete her off the system. Do you know how to get rid of hidden contacts?

RF

[GuySmiley]

Hi GuySmiley,

You are right, I should delete her. In fact I do delete her every time I speak to her, then she turns up in my hidden contacts and I genuinely don't know how to delete that. I've tried every which way. That's why I think the only conclusion is to block her. The double tick is indeed on the message so she has read it and not replied. I don't want to block her, I want to delete her off the system. Do you know how to get rid of hidden contacts?

RF

No idea how to delete hidden contacts. What phone/model do you have?

[RomanticFool]

Samsung Galaxy 6

[RomanticFool]

I've figured it out. The hidden contacts are just numbers in my phone. She is deleted off my system but not blocked. I have a feeling she won't contact me for a while now. Something is going on. Since I have deleted her and she is no longer a hidden contact she will need me to click on something to reconnect I think. I'm not going to do that, I've had enough.

I gave her 4 days from the time she made initial contact to reconnect and I am clear in my mind that was never her intention. As Rayban said, she was doing maintenance. If I'm being kind she may have been genuinely worried about my well being after the attacks. If she was a non, then she would have followed that up with a conversation out of common decency, even if it was just to say, 'Sorry, I was worried about you but I don't want a r/s.' Then I could take the moral high ground by saying, 'How dare you.' etc etc. No BPD will give you closure like that.

For a few days I entertained the idea of recycling this r/s, but I am so pissed off and bored with her usual behaviour that I genuinely do want her out of my life. Usually, I am always glad to hear from her, but I'll say this GuySmiley, I am less bothered by everything. It's been 10 weeks and she has contacted me 3 times with no follow up and I am not going to let it happen a 4th time. I am now going to give her a taste of her own ST.  I haven't remonstrated with her or berated her again, I've gone quietly this time. I suppose blocking her would have sent the message even more clearly but I don't want to do anything that will be perceived as aggressive. I don't want to send her a message or make any kind of statement, I just want to go. This way is softer, gentler (for me) and letting go.

[Skip]

I am aware to most people this would sound like madness. The obvious answer is to block her, but I also know in the head of a pwBPD this will seem like an act of aggression, however justified I may feel. I am also aware that the finality of cutting her off again, so soon after she made contact, may trigger me into feeling that I've made a mistake. A big part of me wants to block her and get back to the NC, but the fact that she found me walking away 'savage' is playing on my mind. Despite everything I don't want to hurt her. Then I think about her possibly seeing somebody else and it makes me think blocking her is essential. I suppose I've asked that question because if she is seeing somebody else it makes the whole thing more clear cut. I know she is never going to admit to it but the fact that she is maintaining a silence so soon after reconnecting again suggests another intrigue is afoot. Unless the silence is to punish me. I don't know. Clarity is what I seek.

It does sound like madness... .you keep saying you are going to let go, and you keep jabbing her shame and painting her black in your own mind.

Is she the love of your life (as you have said). A sex object (as you have said). A cheater, cheating on an affair (as you are now convinced)? Was her touching base with you about the London bridge incident a "ploy"?

It doesn't seem like it.

RM, I think the narrative is getting more and more convoluted and you are messing with her. You may not want to. Your coping skills have an edge to them - you know that.  Specifically, accusing her of seeing someone else as part of going quietly is anything but going quietly.

From everything you have said, isn't the perspective that

1) this has been an extended affair,
2) its mostly been a sex liason,
3) she clearly has depression and coping skill problems (the affair being one)
4) you have sexual addition tendencies (this is not the only affair on your wife)
5) your affair partner who be most comfortable with an affair at affair with an intensity of say "2"
6) you would prefer an affair at the intensity of say "6"
7) there has been a long standing conflict over the issue of intensity
8) the way you deal with the conflict is to be forceful - push on her, confront her, cut her off, etc.
9) the way she deals with the forcefulness is to withdraw and be wounded.

RM, if you want to let her go in a soft and gentle way, don't block nd unblock her, respond to her reaching out with aggression (it is aggressive), and don't accuse or shame her... .

Letting her go easily is to say something nice and understanding to her and take responsibility for ending the relationship rather than making it her fault for reacting to your aggression... .

Something like RMAP, we have been living a double life for a long time. I know I encouraged it and I know I have been aggressive at times, and for that I am sorry. I think I need to face reality that the key to my own happiness is not going to be found by deceiving my wife and even deceiving your husband. I need to face my marriage and honor my vows. It may not workout, but it is best for me to get it a go and either we will come together as husband and wife, or we will part and I will start over. If you care about me, and I believe you do, help me be strong and end this with grace and respect for all involved. You will always have a special place in my heart and I will always have fond memories of the things we shared. My best... .

I suspect this will get a fairly positive response from her... .don't exploit it... .let her go... .breath in fresh air... .set yourself free of the double life.

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear RF-

I can see that you're hurting still.  I'm sorry, and I hope you will help yourself heal.
I have read many of your posts, but don't know the intimate details of your relationship.  Sometimes BPD people do make contact just like "normal" people, especially after a horrible terror attack and simply want to know if you're ok.   It doesn't have to mean she wants to recycle you.  It can simply mean she cares for you and still thinks of you.  I had a boyfriend from 30 years ago call me to make amends (after he'd been sober for 9 years).  We went for lunch - that was pretty amazing!  Not all of their thoughts and deeds are evil with ulterior motives.  I lived with my u-exBPDbf for 3.5 years.  There were many times that he WAS really good and loving to me.

The in-person end of my 3.5+ year relationship with my ex-BPD boyfriend involved another bizarre episode of his extreme rage, name calling, threats and storming out of my home.  I didn't engage, try to defend myself or say a word.  I let him stomp through my house while I watched from the patio with the sliding door closed.  For my sanity, I knew I was letting him go for the last time.  I didn't even cry as he did this.  My legs were shaking as I sat in a chair and watched.  I did go inside to ask for my house key and garage door opener, which he threw at me.  Once again, I was unaware of the trigger for this rage.  The rages were now coming one on top of another.  I think there may have been someone else making a play for him, and he was angry at himself over it.  He didn't want anyone coming between us, but his behavior had me withdrawing from him; and he didn't know how to handle things like an adult.

He tried three emails in the days that followed- two contained beautiful photos of us.  That didn't get to me.  Then he texted me.  I was not agreeable in my replies.   His last words were... ."I'm sorry I'm not the man you want".  I allowed those words to hang in the air.  I had to.  So my closure is silent.  No grand finale.  His last words are correct.

My ex-BPD lover would have stayed in this forever.  I couldn't. 

He did a lot of things a true, solid man just doesn't do.  And he ultimately killed the love in this relationship with those actions and the explosiveness and hate of his rages.  That is the sound I hear when I think of our time together.  That makes me cry because there was more to our love than that; but that's what he left me with.  I'm only 7 weeks out.  I'm hoping my sadness will morph into some type of nice memory, but it may not.   I do know that he didn't set out to purposely hurt me.  Some things were intentional, but many weren't.

There will be no discussion of what went wrong.  No discussion that now I know why he was the way he was.  That would be a criticism and I would pay a heavy price.  I've paid enough.  Maybe he can better regulate with someone else, but that's beyond my control and not my worry.  He unfriended me from Facebook eons ago after a fight and I suggested we stay unfriends.  So we did. 

I don't know what "What's App" even is; but my suggestion is to resign your account.  How can you possibly allow yourself to begin your healing when you're watching your ex-lover's keystrokes?  You're adding to your pain and piling anger onto your pain.  Not a healthy scenario for you.

Your situation is different than mine.  There are other people involved and a lot of hurt feelings to go around.  Your ending doesn't need to be loud, explosive and designed to inflict maximum pain.  That may have been done in the past, I don't know.  You already know that only you can decide when enough is enough; and there is likely a kind way to release both yourself and her.  But that's your decision to make.

I know you're hurting, and I hope you find some peace.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[RomanticFool]

Skip,

It does sound like madness... .you keep saying you are going to let go, and you keep jabbing her shame and painting her black in your own mind.

I let her go 10 weeks ago. She has contacted me 3 times. Had she not contacted me I would now be 10 weeks NC. Rather than painting her black, I am still trying to figure out the reasons behind her silence. I asked her whether she was seeing someone else because after telling me her feelings haven't changed, she then went back to ST. You may well understand her point of view, but her shame has been jabbed because she contacted me 3 times. I did not invite that.

Is she the love of your life (as you have said). A sex object (as you have said). A cheater, cheating on an affair (as you are now convinced)?

She is mostly the first of those things and I fluctuate between thinking she may the the third (based on the fact she went to a gig with another man during her drinking days). I guess it is my jealousy kicking in when I don't hear from her and wonder what she is up to. This was diminishing during the NC period but she reconnected with me.

Was her touching base with you about the London bridge incident a "ploy"? It doesn't seem like it.

It sounds to me like you think I am the pwBPD and she is the vulnerable one. Is this really so unbelievable? I don't doubt she was worried about my safety but do feel there was another motive. Let me give you the rest of the conversation that took place. I replied: 'Thank you for your concern.' She said, 'That will always be there, that will never change.' I said: 'Really?' She said: 'My feelings haven't changed.' I said: 'Then why did you let me walk away?' Silence followed.

This was a highly emotional night and I tried hard not to mention the r/s. But I had asked her not to contact me and my heightened emotions made it difficult not to bring it up.

Because she went silent on me by Sunday morning I was upset. I told her I was pissed off that she contacted me and then went quiet again. I asked her if we could have a conversation and sort things out.

She came online and said that me walking away was 'savage.' I said: One word from you would have stopped that. I then outlined all of the reasons why I walked away. She replied, 'I know all that. You haven't learnt anything. I am going.'

So in order not to trigger her I know I should have left it at thanking her for her message. She probably would not have contacted me for another few weeks. I didn't want that to be the case. I wanted to sort things out there and then. It triggers me when she dips in and out of my life, especially when I had asked her not to contact me.

RM, I think the narrative is getting more and more convoluted and you are messing with her. You may not want to. Your coping skills have an edge to them - you know that.  Specifically, accusing her of seeing someone else as part of going quietly is anything but going quietly.

The narrative would be very simple if she had stayed away. She chose to contact me on 3 separate occasions. I asked her not to do that precisely because my coping skills have an edge to them. 5 weeks into NC she first contacted me and told me she was feeling better. I defy anybody not to be triggered by that. I asked her if she was seeing someone else (as opposed to accusing) because I could not fathom why she wasn't replying to texts asking after her well being. Had she respected the NC then I would still be going quietly. She broke it - 3 times - not me. And now she won't talk to me.

From everything you have said, isn't the perspective that

1) this has been an extended affair,
2) its mostly been a sex liason,
3) she clearly has depression and coping skill problems (the affair being one)
4) you have sexual addition tendencies (this is not the only affair on your wife)
5) your affair partner who be most comfortable with an affair at affair with an intensity of say "2"
6) you would prefer an affair at the intensity of say "6"
7) there has been a long standing conflict over the issue of intensity
8) the way you deal with the conflict is to be forceful - push on her, confront her, cut her off, etc.
9) the way she deals with the forcefulness is to withdraw and be wounded.

I think this is probably the most accurate part of your message. Particularly points 3, 5, 6 and 9. That has struck a chord with me. Again this is something that I had been aware of during the affair but without realising it was BPD (or other mental health issues). I didn't know how to interpret it.

A word about her depression: I tried very hard to be understanding about this. As I mentioned in another post you, I was very understanding when she suffered from this in my presence. She reminded me many times that my behaviour triggered her depression. I apologised to her many times over the years. Then when she was drinking, she taunted me she was going to kill herself (by throwing herself from the multi-storey car park) if I didn't stop getting on her case about her drinking. She was drinking 6 bottles of wine a day and I was worried sick. She told me at this time that her husband used to encourage her to drink, saying she was boring without it. In my experience, a depressive doesn't use their mental illness as a bargaining chip. I felt there was something else going on but I didn't know what.

Unfortunately point 9 means ST and the BPD website indicates very clearly that ST is abuse. If somebody had told me that ST was about self protection I have have been more understanding towards her. I think I have refuted point 2 on several occasions. In the direct aftermath of a split, the sexual side of a r/s is extremely heightened. One misses the immediate physical presence of that person. 10 weeks later, I am realising that it wasn't all about sex for me and definitely not for her. For her it was mostly about validation that she wasn't ugly or stupid. Those are things she used to call herself constantly and which I always asked her not to speak so poorly of the woman I love.

RM, if you want to let her go in a soft and gentle way, don't block and unblock her, respond to her reaching out with aggression (it is aggressive), and don't accuse or shame her... .

I only blocked her once very briefly ie a matter of minutes. She on the other hand blocked me for 4 days, prior to me walking away, when I left a song on my FB for her and she accused me of having an affair.

I asked her not to contact me. This mess is a direct result of her going against my wishes. Still I wasn't aggressive with her when she asked after my well being. Aggression would have been to not reply to her, which is something she probably would have done. I think challenging her assertion that she still loves me when she treated me like crap is inevitable. I asked her if she was having an affair, I didn't accuse her. She may hear it the same way but they are 2 very different things. Incidentally, the one reply she has made to me today is to tell me that she isn't having an affair. Why would that be the only thing she responds to? Maybe to keep me hooked? Or am I being aggressive and unfair on her?

Letting her go easily is to say something nice and understanding to her and take responsibility for ending the relationship rather than making it her fault for reacting to your aggression... .

Something like RMAP, we have been living a double life for a long time. I know I encouraged it and I know I have been aggressive at times, and for that I am sorry. I think I need to face reality that the key to my own happiness is not going to be found by deceiving my wife and even deceiving your husband. I need to face my marriage and honor my vows. It may not workout, but it is best for me to get it a go and either we will come together as husband and wife, or we will part and I will start over. If you care about me, and I believe you do, help me be strong and end this with grace and respect for all involved. You will always have a special place in my heart and I will always have fond memories of the things we shared. My best... .

I wish I could write a message like that but it would all be a lie. I don't want her to go. I adore her. Walking away from her was sickening and I am simply not strong enough to resist when she pulls me back in. If I was sensible I would let her recycle me without a word of dissent, but I am not a doormat.

She is undoubtedly a wounded butterfly, but like Blanche Dubois, she has a formidable side also. Early on in the recycle of our r/s, when I took her out to dinner, I asked her about meeting her husband. She told me they met at college and that all of the women at her college wanted him. She said she would literally grab women and pin them up against the wall if they flirted with him. During the 6 year recycle she grew as a person. I encouraged her to make friends with more women because she told me she never trusted women. Then she joined the suicide prevention charity and she seemed to be less isolated and more gregarious. Even when she started drinking again, and abusing me at every juncture (talking of painting black) she still managed to man the phones at the charity. During this time, when I was losing my mind, I told her one night that I wanted to kill myself. The only time she showed any concern was the next morning when she asked me if I was ok. Again, I replied because I didn't want to be cruel to her and told her I was calmer. She then went straight back to abusing me after a couple of days. I'm sure she would say that I was the aggressive one and she was responding to me etc etc.

I was powerless over the way she behaved. Even had I not been challenging to her she still would have been abusive to me during her drinking because she knew I was in AA and would never condone it. I told her I would still see her if she was drinking but I didn't want her to drink in front of me. She interpreted that as I didn't want to see her and her campaign of abuse was based on that.

I will end this reply by posting this from The Ballad Of Reading Gaol. I am posting this because after she went to rehab I took her out to lunch and asked her why she spent a year abusing me, she replied: 'You always hurt them you love.' And so she (and probably me) continue to do so:

Each man kills the thing he loves
    By each let this be heard,
Some do it with a bitter look,
    Some with a flattering word,
The coward does it with a kiss,
    The brave man with a sword!

Some kill their love when they are young,
    And some when they are old,
Some strangle with the hands of Lust,
    Some with the hands of Gold:
The kindest use a knife, because
    The dead so soon grow cold.

Some love too little, some too long,
    Some sell, and others buy;
Some do the deed with many tears,
    And some without a sigh:
For each man kills the thing he loves,
    Yet each man does not die.

[Skip]

I wish I could write a message like that but it would all be a lie. I don't want her to go. I adore her. Walking away from her was sickening and I am simply not strong enough to resist when she pulls me back in. If I was sensible I would let her recycle me without a word of dissent, but I am not a doormat.

So you came here, posted on Detaching (not Saving) to get support, talked about moving on (because she was not contacting you), lashed out when she contacted you (because you said don't contact me), but you don't really want to end it (that note would do that politely), as you prefer to play out the conflict and see if she yields to your demand for more intensity. And, in another scene, you were critical of your wife for not spending enough time with you and asked her to cancel some commitments to be more available.

I think what I hear to saying is this more a battle of wills... .

As she is contacting you, you feel she has not left, and so you are throwing jabs at her hoping she will feel the lose, and agree to terms that you are more comfortable with. You have appeared a lot less anxious - more in control since she started contacting you.

I suspect that if she goes completely silent, you will feel that you are really losing her and reach out and be more willing to accept her terms.

I suspect that this is not the first time you all have been down this path.

RM, I can't help but say that you seem very vested in this chaos.

A few days ago, we talked about how to compassionately break down the fight and reconcile. You didn't want any part of that.

Here we are talking about how to gracefully exit. You don't any part of that either.

You are picking all the high risk, chaos, not loving (to your affair partner or wife) pathways to find satisfaction. The solution you hope to seek is for the "person you adore" to panic by your absence and admit that she is not the meeting your needs and will do better.

I know this is not flattering, but is this basically what is playing out?

[RomanticFool]

Hi Gemsforeyes,

Sometimes BPD people do make contact just like "normal" people, especially after a horrible terror attack and simply want to know if you're ok.   It doesn't have to mean she wants to recycle you.  It can simply mean she cares for you and still thinks of you.

I was willing to let it be about the horror attack but she then said, 'My feelings haven't changed.' That changes everything. It was also about this r/s and I asked her to stay away. Now she won't reply to my messages. I think it is a despicable way to behave quite frankly. She is only thinking of herself. I am now left once again in turmoil.

I had a boyfriend from 30 years ago call me to make amends (after he'd been sober for 9 years).  We went for lunch - that was pretty amazing! Not all of their thoughts and deeds are evil with ulterior motives.  I lived with my u-exBPDbf for 3.5 years.  There were many times that he WAS really good and loving to me.

That is step 9 in AA. The first thing my AA sponsor told me when I was about to make my amends was: "Leave your ex gf's alone.' I always assume people's motives are good but that is naive of me.

The in-person end of my 3.5+ year relationship with my ex-BPD boyfriend involved another bizarre episode of his extreme rage, name calling, threats and storming out of my home.  I didn't engage, try to defend myself or say a word.  I let him stomp through my house while I watched from the patio with the sliding door closed.  For my sanity, I knew I was letting him go for the last time.  I didn't even cry as he did this.  My legs were shaking as I sat in a chair and watched.  I did go inside to ask for my house key and garage door opener, which he threw at me.  Once again, I was unaware of the trigger for this rage.  The rages were now coming one on top of another.  I think there may have been someone else making a play for him, and he was angry at himself over it.  He didn't want anyone coming between us, but his behavior had me withdrawing from him; and he didn't know how to handle things like an adult.

That sounds horribly traumatic. Sorry you had to deal with well. Good on you for getting out.

He tried three emails in the days that followed- two contained beautiful photos of us.  That didn't get to me.  Then he texted me.  I was not agreeable in my replies.   His last words were... ."I'm sorry I'm not the man you want".  I allowed those words to hang in the air.  I had to.  So my closure is silent.  No grand finale.  His last words are correct.

I tried to make my closure 10 weeks ago but she thinks me savage. I think she has reconnected to punish me.

My ex-BPD lover would have stayed in this forever.  I couldn't.  

My ex's behaviour was just getting more and more distancing. If she was of sound mind she would totally get why I walked. I think she thought I would always to be there to wipe her feet on. If she had been loving towards me I never would have gone. I have never loved anybody like I loved her.

He did a lot of things a true, solid man just doesn't do.  And he ultimately killed the love in this relationship

Ditto with my ex. She could have had me for life if she had been loving.

I'm only 7 weeks out.  I'm hoping my sadness will morph into some type of nice memory, but it may not.   I do know that he didn't set out to purposely hurt me.

Look after yourself. That is still very recent. I don't think my ex wants to hurt me either... .but the saddest thing of all is that I'm not sure.

There will be no discussion of what went wrong.  No discussion that now I know why he was the way he was.  That would be a criticism and I would pay a heavy price.  I've paid enough.  

You are wise to take that road. I am paying a heavy price for having the temerity to challenge her about her behaviour. I just can't tolerate abuse and injustice.

He unfriended me from Facebook eons ago after a fight and I suggested we stay unfriends.  So we did.  

I cut her off Facebook when she accused me of having an affair with someone (after leaving a song for her) and blocking me on her phone. When she reconnected the thing she was most upset about was FB. You are saving yourself a world of pain.

I don't know what "What's App" even is; but my suggestion is to resign your account.  How can you possibly allow yourself to begin your healing when you're watching your ex-lover's keystrokes?  You're adding to your pain and piling anger onto your pain.  Not a healthy scenario for you.

I can't resign the account as I need it to communicate for football matches. I keep deleting her from WhatsApp. I can't bring myself to block her but I cannot see her activity unless she sends me a message. She is currently in retreat for reasons I can only wonder at, so I may be safe for another few weeks.

Your ending doesn't need to be loud, explosive and designed to inflict maximum pain.  That may have been done in the past, I don't know.

The first time round it ended when she wouldn't talk to me anymore. This time round it ended when I got fed up with her ST. It couldn't be less explosive and that is what she wants, to contain everything and pick me up and put me down when it suits her. The drama is not in events but in my emotional life, which she runs away from like a reflex.

You already know that only you can decide when enough is enough; and there is likely a kind way to release both yourself and her.  But that's your decision to make.

I made that decision 10 weeks ago. She contacted me 3 times. Had I blocked her on WhatsApp in the first place she wouldn't have been able to contact me, but I suspect she would have texted me. (She told me we couldn't text anymore because her husband had discovered the affair - I don't believe her).

I know you're hurting, and I hope you find some peace.

Thanks Gems. Peace will come from NC. I'll see how the next few weeks go but if she continues with the push/pull I will have to block her on WhatsApp and then I really will be painted black.

[Skip]

I wish I could write a message like that but it would all be a lie. I don't want her to go. I adore her. Walking away from her was sickening and I am simply not strong enough to resist when she pulls me back in. If I was sensible I would let her recycle me without a word of dissent, but I am not a doormat.

So you came here, posted on Detaching (not Saving) to get support, talked about moving on (because she was not contacting you), lashed out when she contacted you (because you said don't contact me), but you don't really want to end it (that note would do that politely), as you prefer to play out the conflict and see if she yields to your demand for more intensity. And, in another scene, you were critical of your wife for not spending enough time with you and asked her to cancel some commitments to be more available.

I think what I hear to saying is this more a battle of wills... .

As she is contacting you, you feel she has not left, and so you are throwing jabs at her hoping she will feel the lose, and agree to terms that you are more comfortable with. You have appeared a lot less anxious - more in control since she started contacting you.

I suspect that if she goes completely silent, you will feel that you are really losing her and reach out and be more willing to accept her terms.

I suspect that this is not the first time you all have been down this path.

RM, I can't help but say that you seem very vested in this chaos.

A few days ago, we talked about how to compassionately break down the fight and reconcile. You didn't want any part of that.

Here we are talking about how to gracefully exit. You don't any part of that either.

You are picking all the high risk, chaos, not loving (to your affair partner or wife) pathways to find satisfaction. The solution you hope to seek is for the "person you adore" to panic by your absence and admit that she is not the meeting your needs and will do better.

I know this is not flattering, but is this basically what is playing out?

[RomanticFool]

So you came here, posted on Detaching (not Saving) to get support, talked about moving on (because she was not contacting you), lashed out when she contacted you (because you said don't contact me), but you don't really want to end it (that note would do that politely), as you prefer to play out the conflict and see if she yields to your demand for more intensity.

I feel like shouting this from the rooftops. I HAD MOVED ON. SHE CONTACTED ME. Of course I am conflicted. I never wanted to walk away in the first place, I was getting stronger. I hurdled the first two of her contacts but this one has been more damaging. Remember you told me not to block her on WhatsApp. I probably should.

I never wanted it to end, I just had to walk away for my own sanity. What I am currently playing out is waiting to see if she has started drinking again. The r/s no longer exists as it was. She is playing hide and seek with me for reasons I don't yet know. Get ready to put this back on the detached board because I predict we are never getting back together. It's gone beyond an all or nothing demand for more intensity. It is now nothing or nothing. I believe she knew exactly what she was doing by contacting me. If you don't like the word ploy, then let's say she is comfortable in the chaos.

And, in another scene, you were critical of your wife for not spending enough time with you and asked her to cancel some commitments to be more available.

No. That was for a family engagement party. I never ask her to cancel anything.

I think what I hear to saying is this more a battle of wills... .

At the moment I just want to know if she has is still sober. It was for many years a battle of wills. Now it is just her not speaking to me for reasons unknown.

As she is contacting you, you feel she has not left, and so you are throwing jabs at her hoping she will feel the lose, and agree to terms that you are more comfortable with. You have appeared a lot less anxious - more in control since she started contacting you.

The first couple of times she contacted me I was angry because I had asked her not to. On Saturday It changed. I felt pleased to hear from her. I am in no more control now than I have ever been. But I have not been attacking her because I think there is a problem.

I suspect that if she goes completely silent, you will feel that you are really losing her and reach out and be more willing to accept her terms.

No. We don't have a r/s anymore. I actually wish her well.

I suspect that this is not the first time you all have been down this path

It is the first time I walked away.

RM, I can't help but say that you seem very vested in this chaos.

I am in love with her. I find it hard to turn my back on her.

A few days ago, we talked about how to compassionately break down the fight and reconcile. You didn't want any part of that.

I was initially angry that she didn't stop me walking away. Everybody on the forums says NC is the best option. At that time I agreed.

Here we are talking about how to gracefully exit. You don't any part of that either.

There is no graceful exit now. She told me my leaving was savage and that word has thrown me into anguish.

You are picking all the high risk, chaos, not loving (to your affair partner or wife) pathways to find satisfaction. The solution you hope to seek is for the "person you adore" to panic by your absence and admit that she is not the meeting your needs and will do better.

That was my hope many years ago, but nothing I ever did effected anywhere near getting that. I don'tknow if coaching from a BPD expert would have effected a different outcome.

I just received a message from the ex. This will throw some light as to what is going on with her. She says:

My mental health is shot and my sobriety is hanging by a thread. I can't go on like this much longer and can see no solution. I can say no more

I replied:

Is this to do with us or you and your husband?

She replied:

It is to do with me alone

I said:

I am sorry you are hurting. Please don't drink

My reading of the situation is that she is in crisis. This was a constant theme during our r/s. She always said it was nothing to do with our r/s and said on many occasions that I was the only thing keeping her sober or I was the only reason for her living. Admittedly she hasn't said that in a while.

When we were getting on well she used to tell me how kind I was (never used the word loving, interestingly). The interesting thing is, I don't think my behaviour has been much different throughout the r/s. She suffers from a severe type of depression where she has a lack of dopamine. When she used to accuse me of driving her nuts, I would try to show a more loving side. One of the issues was how much time she had to text me during the day. I am sure I drove her nuts over this issue.

However, even through the worst of our issues, she always texted me 'night' and 'morning' and I drove her various shades of nuts in between. But there was a structure and understanding between us, if either of us didn't say goodnight or good morning, the other would give them a hard time. She did it to me on several occasions.

My reading of the situation is that she has been in crisis off and on for 14 years. During the recycle, my presence in her life improved things greatly, until my demands put too much stress on her. During those times she would retreat. The trouble came because her retreating then turned into ST and abuse. I can trace it back to the death of her brother when she started drinking. That took about 18 months to recover from and get us back to the position where we could meet. We had some our best times during that recovery period. She had discovered AA and things were going well. Around last December things came to a head because I was working away from home for a few months and she told me she would come to see me but didn't - or couldn't. I then got upset and she retreated. Things have deteriorated since then.

This business about us doing different intensity levels is exactly right and you have hit the nail on the head with that. It has been about that all along. Except I would say, due to her mental health issues and her marriage, she wants 1 and I want 10. That has been the problem and I just can't settle for 1. When we meet she goes to a 7 and I am still at 10. But at home she cannot do it.

Now it is interesting to note that since I have been out of her life she has lost all perspective. This tells me that the importance I played in her life was both a stabiliser for her mental health and an agitator. The sad truth is that we need each other. The ideal situation for her would be if we could be friends instead of lovers.  

[BeagleGirl]

The sad truth is that we need each other. The ideal situation for her would be if we could be friends instead of lovers.  

I've resisted commenting, because I have not taken the time to read all of your threads and posts and feel like I'm coming in at the middle. On the off chance that it might give you something to think about, I would like to challenge the statement above and make an observation.

I think it may be more accurate to say "The sad truth is that we both fill needs in each other.  The ideal situation would be if we could learn to care for our own needs and be whole people who can act out healthy relationships". 

My observation is this:  You are betraying your wife by investing in a relationship (or the ending of the relationship with hopes of maybe having a changed relationship) with a woman who is betraying her husband by investing emotionally (even if the primary emotion is anger) in you.  Please understand that I speak the following as someone who has carried on an affair with a married man, so any judgement you hear from me is something I have fully dished out on myself.

NO MATTER how horrible your wife is and her husband is, you are betraying people you have made promises to and have not been responsible and loving enough to release from a relationship that you are not willing to be faithful to.  IF you continue investing in ANY relationship with this woman you "deserve" each other, and that is not a nice "deserve" as in happily ever after "deserve". 

It is your decision if you leave yourself open to communication from her.  It is your decision if you choose to work on your marriage or move towards ending it.  It is your decision whether you act out of integrity or brokenness.  I think it is the hope of all of those responding that you do what is necessary to be healthy and whole.  It's my belief that you will be hampering that process by continuing to expend emotional energy on this woman.  I know that there is a certain amount of mental and emotional pull that will continue even if/after you decide to stop investing.  I spent a few months wishing I could purge my affair partner from my mind and heart, even after I had ended the affair and gone NC, because reminders of him and our relationship were EVERYWHERE.  They were quite literally inside me.  The only way I survived that hell and came out on the other side was a complete commitment to stop investing and accountability to a number of other people who would point out to me when and how I was still investing.

This is an ideal place to find that accountability.  There are a number of people who are already trying to point out to you times when you are going against your stated principles.  So far, I have to say that it looks like you are not willing to accept the help that people are offering you.  I hope that you will start to recognize the things inside yourself that may be standing in the way of what is ultimately best for you and, by proxy, those you choose to be in relationship with.

[RomanticFool]

BeagleGirl,

IF you continue investing in ANY relationship with this woman you "deserve" each other, and that is not a nice "deserve" as in happily ever after "deserve".  

I am not religious, I don't believe in karma or divine retribution or any of that cosmic stuff, so I have no idea what you mean by 'deserve' each other. We are human beings, just like everybody else and what we deserve is love, the same as everybody else. I find the judgementalism in this forum, particularly by people who have done the same, unhelpful.

My observation is this:  You are betraying your wife by investing in a relationship (or the ending of the relationship with hopes of maybe having a changed relationship) with a woman who is betraying her husband by investing emotionally (even if the primary emotion is anger) in you.  Please understand that I speak the following as someone who has carried on an affair with a married man, so any judgement you hear from me is something I have fully dished out on myself.

With the greatest respect, if you have carried on an affair then how does it give you the right to judge me? You know the complexities involved in any love affair. People can say walk away for the sake of morality, but that doesn't make me stop loving her.

As I have said many times on these boards, my wife and I have not been intimate for 8 years, so what do you suggest I do with my sexuality? I find a certain hypocrisy about the marriage comments when 1 in 3 marriages fail. Why is everybody so keen that I should be faithful to a woman who has decided to sleep in a separate room? I am not a monk.

Frankly when people start moralising about marriage I just switch off. I seem to be getting it particularly from Americans, so I don't know if there is a religious connotation to this (vows before the eyes of God and all that), but we had a humanist wedding. My wife is a lovely person and we get on very well, so I don't feel like divorcing her and kicking her out on the street either. I will say no more about that.

I think it may be more accurate to say "The sad truth is that we both fill needs in each other.  The ideal situation would be if we could learn to care for our own needs and be whole people who can act out healthy relationships".

I did care for my own needs, I walked away from her for 10 weeks. She has never been able to care for her own needs (despite suggesting she wishes she could live on her own) as she has serious mental health issues. I know the correct thing to do for my mental health, the sake of my marriage etc. Today, I feel like I want to help my ex get well. If she drinks again her life will be over. This is no longer about me cheating on my wife or having sex outside of the marriage, it is about helping somebody I love. You probably all think I am deluding myself but that's how I feel.

It is your decision if you leave yourself open to communication from her.

I went 10 weeks NC with her in which she contacted me 3 times. The latest which was to tell me that her mental health is shot and she is hanging onto her sobriety by a thread. Now I'm sure all the religious people would say turn your back on her because you are married, but that doesn't strike me as a very Christian thing to do. Ironic really.

There are a number of people who are already trying to point out to you times when you are going against your stated principles.  So far, I have to say that it looks like you are not willing to accept the help that people are offering you.  I hope that you will start to recognise the things inside yourself that may be standing in the way of what is ultimately best for you and, by proxy, those you choose to be in relationship with.

I am aware of the situation regarding my marriage but talking about that doesn't help in dealing with the ex.  I am accepting help specifically related to dealing with my ex who I believe has BPD traits, so you are quite wrong about me not listening. I have found these boards extremely helpful regarding BPD. Anything else is opinion and moral judgement.

There are two things standing in way regarding moving forward.

1. I am still in love with a deeply troubled woman and after 10 weeks I was slowly and painfully beginning to detach, but then she contacted me for the third time on the night of the London terror attacks and it all went to sh*t.

2. My wife and I have no intimacy and I feel that in order to solve that I need to end my marriage, something that will break her heart far worse than me having an affair.

[BPDFamily]

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