Confused

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I am more confused than ever by my now non existent r/s with my xBPD married lover. She is now not speaking to me at all, despite accepting my reinstatement onto my FB page. I am purposely not looking at her page, but I am feeling angry and resentful towards her. I have committed to going 90 days and not cutting her off FB, but every day she doesn't talk to me is another day of stored up anger.

I have cut her off and reinstated her on a number of occasions over the years, mainly when she withdrew her love/affection from me. I walked away just over four months ago from the r/s because she kept giving me ST and blocking me on her phone, amid accusations that I am a bully and aggressive towards her (our r/s was conducted mainly by text with the occasional wonderful meet up). I have known this person for 14 years and we recycled this time round just over 5 years ago.

I feel constant feelings of yearning and emptiness. I can't stand not hearing from her and the long painful silences. I have detached from her successfully once before in my life and then she came back. I look upon her as a wolf in sheep's clothing. She appears all needy and vulnerable and then turns into a finger pointing blamer when she has me under her spell. She behaves as if I am completely unimportant to her but insists on being connected to my FB.

I think I want her out of my life. I don't want to go 90 days and have her connected to me without any conversation at all. It feels unfair. It has been suggested that I develop feelings of empathy towards her but she has shown zero empathy towards me over a long period of time. Isn't this just keeping the wound open? Why should I allow her free access to my FB when she isn't even talking to me?

[RomanticFool]

I am more confused than ever by my now non existent r/s with my xBPD married lover. She is now not speaking to me at all, despite accepting my reinstatement onto my FB page. I am purposely not looking at her page, but I am feeling angry and resentful towards her. I have committed to going 90 days and not cutting her off FB, but every day she doesn't talk to me is another day of stored up anger.

I have cut her off and reinstated her on a number of occasions over the years, mainly when she withdrew her love/affection from me. I walked away just over four months ago from the r/s because she kept giving me ST and blocking me on her phone, amid accusations that I am a bully and aggressive towards her (our r/s was conducted mainly by text with the occasional wonderful meet up). I have known this person for 14 years and we recycled this time round just over 5 years ago.

I feel constant feelings of yearning and emptiness. I can't stand not hearing from her and the long painful silences. I have detached from her successfully once before in my life and then she came back. I look upon her as a wolf in sheep's clothing. She appears all needy and vulnerable and then turns into a finger pointing blamer when she has me under her spell. She behaves as if I am completely unimportant to her but insists on being connected to my FB.

I think I want her out of my life. I don't want to go 90 days and have her connected to me without any conversation at all. It feels unfair. It has been suggested that I develop feelings of empathy towards her but she has shown zero empathy towards me over a long period of time. Isn't this just keeping the wound open? Why should I allow her free access to my FB when she isn't even talking to me?

[once removed]

your relationship is going through a transition period.

in the grand scheme of things, it hasnt been long. things are sort of awkward, and trust isnt really there on either side.

play the longer game. what feels like an eternity to you likely feels differently to her. she will likely reach out soon, and when she does, your best bet is to be warm and inviting but cool; not blow steam at her.

thats likely to facilitate more contact, if thats what youre going for.

[RomanticFool]

Given that her last comment was, 'You have deleted me from your friends list for the last time' and then I reinstated her, I'm not sure she will reach out again. She knows I only want to hear from her if she has an intention to see me - unless she forgets that part.

I just don't see any hope of any future with this woman. She cannot cope with my personality ie somebody who needs love back from her. She is completely disinterested in my life and I am not even convinced it is my FB page she wants access to as much as my wife's. Nothing about this situation feels healthy.

Even in the extremely unlikely event that we were to rekindle some kind of r/s, it would just go back to how it always has been. With me wanting more and her running away. Surely it would just be easier all round to disconnect? My only concern for her is that she doesn't make another suicide attempt.

She was away at a music festival over the weekend and for all I know she could have met somebody else. Why do I feel like a fool?

[earlyL]

Hi RF,

I can relate to your feelings, you are in a huge amount of turmoil because you have some info about her but not all and that in itself takes time to get used to. You no longer have access to every detail if you wanted it, it has taken me six months of LC to actually find I no longer think about what she is doing every single minute with my ex, but when I have a rough idea I find it causes more anxiety. When I have no idea I actually find I have some peace.

You mention that you recycled - how long was the last break for, do you remember feeling the same way, what was different about last time?

[Skip]

play the longer game. what feels like an eternity to you likely feels differently to her. she will likely reach out soon, and when she does, your best bet is to be warm and inviting but cool; not blow steam at her.

This is solid advice.  :)on't give into your demons and do more damage.

Every time the demons rule, you blow steam at her, and when it clears she is further "conditioned" to feel bad about the relationship.

If you want to know why... .


Date: Dec 2013Minutes: 1:56
Classical and Operant Conditioning

[RomanticFool]

I understand the conditioned response notion. However, what about all of our history? It's like I have to just forget everything that has gone before and start again. Then, if I behave in the way she wants, I will slowly be allowed back into her life, probably not to meet but to converse a little on WhatsApp. Then some crisis will happen in her life and she will withdraw. This has been the pattern since we began. Even if she comes to see me as more empathic through the work I am doing here, there will inevitably be a time when she pulls away from the closeness because that is who she is.

Now I understand that this is exactly like AA ie it is me who has to change because she will not. Through AA I have been happy to change my responses towards work colleagues, friends, family, my wife but as regards the pwBPD I find it difficult because she is often unreasonable and thoughtless towards me. None of the other people I mentioned in my life are either of those things consistently. So I guess what I have to do is give her a free pass on her bad behaviour because I guarantee, no matter how gentle I am regarding errant behaviour on her part, the minute I show any kind of dissatisfaction towards her she will withdraw and never admit fault. This is what I have been dealing with on and off for 14 years. It is also why I have become so intolerant of her behaviour.

But I have committed to 90 days of tolerance/empathy. So here is an update: I got a like from her on a FB post today and I did likewise on a photo of her form the festival. It is strange because I feel much more distance from her now. Her oblique contact made me feel a bit odd. We never talk to each other on FB or generally like each other's posts. FB means very little to me, but obviously a great deal to her. It is a way she can have contact without actually having to deal with the emotions of me as a real person. It feels safe to her and free from any reproach from me about not being in contact.

[once removed]

let me reiterate: i think you are experiencing this differently than she is. youre ascribing a lot of motives that, while you obviously know her better than i, seem questionable. youre taking any distance very personally and ascribing it sinister motives. in trying to see her perspective on this, a few days (or even a couple of weeks) of distance seems natural and healthy.

you want closeness (and immediate gratification). she wants some space. not tons of it, nothing permanent, just a cool off period. i would consider the 'like' a gentle opening of the door (and im not surprised by it). you responded in kind. good.

there is distance. things are different. that need not be a bad thing or permanent thing. for whatever form of relationship the two of you are going to have, if you hope for it to thrive, i would embrace it and let her lead on this without trying to read her mind or giving into impulse.

and id use that time to continue the work youve been doing. because if things go back to the way they were, the outcome will be the same, if not worse.

patience.

[RomanticFool]

Hi Once removed,

Thanks for your response. It is very helpful.

let me reiterate: i think you are experiencing this differently than she is. youre ascribing a lot of motives that, while you obviously know her better than i, seem questionable. youre taking any distance very personally and ascribing it sinister motives. in trying to see her perspective on this, a few days (or even a couple of weeks) of distance seems natural and healthy.

I think I take everything regarding her personally and have done for many years. The reason goes back a long way. We both made a pact a long time ago to be there for each other. I feel that she has reneged on that pact countless times, while I stayed loyal. I think me walking away over 4 months ago, along with other issues in her life, made her feel bad enough to try to take her own life. Prior to that I was always there for her, even when she was behaving abominably. She spent a year abusing me when she started drinking again and I never walked away from her. However, the gradual wearing down of my resilience over a very long period of time took its toll on me and I had had enough of feeling constantly bereft and let down by her. She in turn has never been interested in how I feel but in how I treat her. It has been tiring and exhausting being in love with this person. I have not always behaved well, but in all honesty our r/s would have tried the patience of a saint.

Perhaps I have always been wrong about perceived infidelities. However, she did have a habit of disappearing for days and weeks at a time over the years and I know of at least one occasion when she went to a music festival with another man. She tells me they went just as friends. I never believed her. I think the reason I have often mistrusted her is partly because she didn't tell me she was married until I had travelled all the way to her home town to meet her, at a time when I was single. Plus her behaviour has always been depressive in nature and my reading of her body language over the years has often been that she doesn't feel the same way about me as I felt her about (except in the throes of passion). She is always the one to withdraw. I am always the one to push for more. That has been our dynamic.

you want closeness (and immediate gratification). she wants some space. not tons of it, nothing permanent, just a cool off period. i would consider the 'like' a gentle opening of the door (and im not surprised by it). you responded in kind. good.

I have always wanted gratification from her and I think this is the root of the dysfunction. However, there have been times where she too has demanded the same from me. When she becomes emotionally engaged, or mistrustful or simply missing me (which hasn't happened for a long time) she would demand I called her (once when she was in Vegas and I was in the UK). The point is (and also the source of much of my frustration) is that she has often behaved as aggressively, demandingly and as hostile as she accuses me of being. It has always been one rule for her and another for me. This is why I have fought her every step of the way. When she was younger our jousting was par for the course. It seems in recent years she feels my demands on her time and availability have been too much to bear. Now this could be that I have become more intense the more she pulls away, but I think it actually has more to do with her mental health. I think she is simply less robust than she was 10 years ago. That thought occurred to me today. Looking at her objectively, she has always been combative and difficult to deal with. When we were in the height of our affair, we were loving and passionate towards each other. The trouble started when she beagn to pull away again. I don't know whether my demands came first or her inability to cope but her vulnerability has increased with age. Perhaps that is normal for a person with long term depression?

there is distance. things are different. that need not be a bad thing or permanent thing. for whatever form of relationship the two of you are going to have, if you hope for it to thrive, i would embrace it and let her lead on this without trying to read her mind or giving into impulse.

This is key to the source of conflict. One day we were crazy in love and then the next day she was drinking again (after 10 years of sobriety) when her brother died. I can trace this as the source of all our current difficulties and it happened about 3 years ago. Things were never the same after that.

As far as how things are right now, I am only going to reply to any contact she makes. I am no longer sure if I really want a r/s with her because it is so painful when it goes wrong. I do not feel I can trust her emotional life. Perhaps being more empathic will make things easier in the short term but I have been here before. In the long term there will always be a crisis within her family which will draw her away from me. That has been the pattern. Perhaps if I was a more patient and understanding person, I could have allowed her to reject me for a year with no ill will. That just isn't the person I am at the moment. I have managed to resist further impulses to cut her off and the disease around that has lifted today, but that is probably because she made contact. This then makes me feel pathetic for accepting so little. My head tells me that this is a better way to go, my heart tells me that she will never care for me the way I care for her. I did ask her a week ago if she hated me and she replied, 'Nothing could be further from the truth.' I guess the truth is changeable.

and id use that time to continue the work youve been doing. because if things go back to the way they were, the outcome will be the same, if not worse.

I cannot go back to how things were regarding constant push/pull on both sides. It is no way to live. However, the only way I can deal with my own emotions around her is to not sleep with her again. Once that happens then the obsessional behaviour starts to kick in.

Here's the ultimate irony of this whole thing: The cordial distant r/s I have been resisting all these years may actually be the best one for me emotionally. However, my romantic idealism is such that it is an anathema to me to allow such passion to turn to cordial politeness. This makes me feel that I am going against my own belief system. I don't know if that makes sense?

[RomanticFool]

Hi EarlyL,

Thank you for your message.

The last break we had was for a number of years. I detached from her quicker then because I thought she had never really returned my feelings or passion. It all seemed somewhat awkward and difficult back then. I felt a great deal for her but because I was single, I knew instinctively it was bad news getting involved with a married woman. What was different about this time around is that she became emotionally engaged. Plus, I am married now and that kind of levelled the playing field. She always thought that the first time around I hadn't felt that much for her, which I found curious because I was sure I made myself clear regarding my feelings. Perhaps the younger me was a little more circumspect with her than my older self.

My assessment of the situation then was that I was single and she was married and there was no future in the r/s. However, I had a number of casual affairs in those days and I also continued seeing the pwBPD too. Obviously I had no idea what BPD was.

I remember a time in a cafe where she expressed her desire to have a man 'put her on a pedestal.' My interpretation of that statement back then was that what she wanted was blind adoration and giving little in return. As it turned out, my less experienced reading of the situation may actually have been correct.

In any case, once we met up again, I told her that I had actually been in love with her all those years ago. She expressed shock at that assertion and I think that was the trigger which made her attach to me. I do actualy remember us discussing love all those years ago and I asked her if she loved me. She replied, 'I believe I do.' So we must have spoken words of love to each other but I don't remember the detail from 12-14 years ago.