Advice - X is asking for help this week (extra money)

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I pretty much know what the feedback will be but thought I would throw it out there plus there is one thing that may change the advice a little. Stbxw and I have been very low contact for the last 6 weeks but has been civil outside of a few false accusations. Yesterday she texted the following:

1:11pm
"I'm going to need extra this month. I have $178 for cable, $100 for the pool and $110 for my meds. What's left will not be enough for two weeks. My grocery budget has almost double since they are home for lunches and snacks. Thanks."
1:36pm
"We don't do a whole lot that costs money but since it's summer it would be good to have some extra if we want to go somewhere that costs money for all to get in. Thanks again."
7:44pm
"BTW~not every two weeks. Just this week. I'll make it work if we want to go somewhere... ."
7:44pm
"It's easily $300/week for groceries. You do the math."

We have 5 children together but our oldest lives with me (D15). I have a 30/70 custody schedule with our youngest 4. I am very active and involved when I have our children. Always have been since before we separated. I have found some interesting and fun things to do for free or very low cost. My question is this: Should I ignore and not respond, ask her how much she needs and then offer what little that I can (Maybe $40) or simply BIFF and tell her no that I'm unable to give her any extra. The other factor is that we are close to an offer on settling for divorce and she seems to be in a somewhat stable spot. You know what telling her no will do... .Thank you in advance.

[40days_in_desert]

I pretty much know what the feedback will be but thought I would throw it out there plus there is one thing that may change the advice a little. Stbxw and I have been very low contact for the last 6 weeks but has been civil outside of a few false accusations. Yesterday she texted the following:

1:11pm
"I'm going to need extra this month. I have $178 for cable, $100 for the pool and $110 for my meds. What's left will not be enough for two weeks. My grocery budget has almost double since they are home for lunches and snacks. Thanks."
1:36pm
"We don't do a whole lot that costs money but since it's summer it would be good to have some extra if we want to go somewhere that costs money for all to get in. Thanks again."
7:44pm
"BTW~not every two weeks. Just this week. I'll make it work if we want to go somewhere... ."
7:44pm
"It's easily $300/week for groceries. You do the math."

We have 5 children together but our oldest lives with me (D15). I have a 30/70 custody schedule with our youngest 4. I am very active and involved when I have our children. Always have been since before we separated. I have found some interesting and fun things to do for free or very low cost. My question is this: Should I ignore and not respond, ask her how much she needs and then offer what little that I can (Maybe $40) or simply BIFF and tell her no that I'm unable to give her any extra. The other factor is that we are close to an offer on settling for divorce and she seems to be in a somewhat stable spot. You know what telling her no will do... .Thank you in advance.

[flourdust]

Do you have a separation agreement that described the budget plan?

Are her financial needs valid? What extra money can you give her?

She has the option of asking the judge to order temporary spousal and child support while you are in the divorce process. That order might be worse for you than providing a few hundred dollars now, especially when you consider legal fees.

[david]

What is your current agreement ? Is it through the courts or just between the two of you ?
Also, you can look up what child support payments are online and find whether you are paying the states calculated amount, more, or less than that.

[40days_in_desert]

flourdust - we do have a separation agreement that describes what she receives and what we are each responsible for. I don't want to sound like I'm bashing my ex but she has very little skill at budgeting. It has been two years and always runs out of money. Instead of depositing the bi-weekly check, she cashes it at my bank leaving her with a bunch of cash in her hands. This is dangerous for just about anyone in my opinion but I don't tell her or even suggest that she should deposit the check. I could tell her that she could save $100 by only having wi-fi and $100/month for the pool privileges at her grandparents country club would save $200/month. She also hasn't tried to get a job since we have been separated. I know that she wouldn't be able to make much with 4 kids but I have offered to keep our youngest three when possible to avoid child care if she were to find part time work at night/weekends. I know that with her current expenses, what she receives is very sufficient (she lives with her mother rent free). The things that I do with our children is zero or very low cost as I don't have the money to spend either. I use to make 200k a year and she never had to worry about running out of money. When she left and moved three states away, I took a demotion to move and be near our children and make almost half of that now. I may be able to give her an extra $40 this week. She has accused me of hiding money several times which I am not. Thank you for your input... .definitely helps me.

[40days_in_desert]

I am paying the state's calculated amount at this time.

[Panda39]

IMO Her house her budget to manage.  You might suggest that the pool fee and cable are not necessities that she might consider dropping for the summer while the kids are home full-time and that money saved there goes to the grocery budget.

Use SET and send via email (so you have documentation of your response and your reasonable suggestion of a solution)

Panda39

[david]

How she budgets is her responsibility. I view it as her trying to guilt you by using the kids and lack of food for them.
I would only communicate through email for documentation purposes.

[flourdust]

I would give her the $40 and tell her it's all you have available now. Better than her going to the judge for an emergency order.

You may be "right", but you can still lose!

[takingandsending]

In a subtle way, your xw has shifted you into no-win territory. She never states what she wants (we won't go into confusing needs and wants), but leaves it to you to figure out what "extra" means. She then defends her want (several times) so that any disagreement will reinforce the role she has cast you in as overall foil to her right to happiness. So, whether you give or don't give, you're likely to make her unhappy unless you give her a lot more than whatever "extra" is.

The better question is, how does her request align with your values? If you generally strive to be generous and that's something you think people should be (e.g. what you would want your kids to grow up to be), then you should offer the $40, but be smart and anticipate it will create bad feelings anyway. You would do it to be true to your own values. Maybe it will even provide some food or fun for your 4 younger children. But if she attacks your generosity, then be strong in your boundary/protection of your value that is intrinsic to you.

If your values don't resonate with being generous with money, then protect that with a boundary. Sounds easy, but it isn't. I struggle with this stuff all the time. The insidious nature of this illness is that pwBPD are so skilled at attacking us at our core values. She probably wouldn't ask if she didn't know the appeal would strike a chord in you that is likely to get her wants met.

[GaGrl]

If her concern truly is the extra groceries during summer break, you could take the $40 and buy sandwich makings and healthy snack foods, and jusr drop them off.

[40days_in_desert]

That's why I like coming here. There's always something that is helpful. In response to some of the above:

Panda39 - I agree that it's her house and her budget. She doesn't know how to budget. All of the years that we were together, she wouldn't sit with me to create one even after several attempts of asking. This left me to do the budget, sharing it with her and asking for feedback. When she overspent, she replied, "That's your budget!" I would reply, "What would you change/propose?" but she would just walk away with nothing being resolved. I asked her one time several years ago, "What if I didn't make the money that I do now?" Her reply, "Let's just be glad that you do?"

David - She's an expert at guilt/shame. When I say no to her requests, she spirals into saying things like I'm neglecting and depriving the kids. I know that I'm not so it has little effect on me these days.

flourdust/Gagrl - I may do one of these but want to be careful to not enable. I may buy some groceries and remind her that she said that it was for this week only.

takingandsending - I'm familiar with her putting me in no-win situations. She lives by generalities. I never even got any specifics and only a couple of vague reasons why she wanted a divorce in the first place. My values are that I do help those in need but stops when I notice it is only take and that the other makes no effort to help themselves. I believe this is enabling. It is never enough for her. Last year she received half of my bonus and tax return for a total of 10k on top of what she received every month ($2,800) and was claiming broke after six weeks.

Thank you again... .if I was married to any one of you, I believe that I wouldn't need to ever post anything here!

[flourdust]

Bear in mind that the potential audience for this drama is the court.

Giving money = cooperative parenting, taking care of kids' needs first.

Buying groceries = controlling, playing games.

Not giving money = possibly justifiable, arguably refusing to support the kids.

Think about the audience, not just your relationship with your ex.

[david]

My ex used to say I was abusive. It started with emotional abuse, shifted into verbal abuse, morphed into physical abuse, then with spiritual abuse. I only communicate through email. This way she is "protected". Courts ate that right up. I never agreed with her assessment but I offered a solution to her perception.
I believe it was the second protection order she filed against me I asked the judge to let me pick the boys up at school. This way I was nowhere near her. Judge liked that idea and I had my attorney write the order up in the court that day. Had the judge look it over and had both parents and the judge sign it. The first time I went to pick our boys up at their school I was told by the person at the office I was not allowed to pick them up with out ex's expressed consent. She had already contacted the school. By then I was pretty good at anticipating ex and I had a copy of the order for the school.
I found that, when possible, use what is given to you and, without agreeing, find a solution.
If you want more time with the kids you could suggest that to your ex as a solution to the hunger issue. You might find that she figures out a solution quickly or she agrees to more time. Either way the problem gets solved. That is a win-win.
I used to fall for the guilt in the beginning. When I stopped ex changed her tactics. Occasionally she came back to the guilt just to check.
Email helps eliminate the generalities since it is in writing. When my ex put something vague I would ask for a clarification. Once I understood what she was trying to get at I would repeat it back to her for her to say yes. The generalizations eventually faded away.

[ForeverDad]

Or you could offer to take the kids for one or two additional mealtimes each week.  Less food for her to buy and cook.  (Of course, don't mention that you'll be happy to have the extra time with the kids.)

Yes, that won't go over well but at least you presented a solution (and probably a solution that doesn't make you look bad to the court) rather than a No.

If she refuses and raises the issue in court then you can present your side, that you offered a solution and she received enough money to feed the kids despite her claims it wasn't enough.

By the way, courts love their support calculator models.  If the court made the calcs then it might not want to modify them without solid basis.

[StayStrongNow]

I am paying the state's calculated amount at this time.

40 days pay no more than the state's calculated amount. She needs to become self sufficient, let her make her next move. Do nothing. It will start with this inch and then will want a mile.

[HopefulDad]

Bear in mind that the potential audience for this drama is the court.

Giving money = cooperative parenting, taking care of kids' needs first.

Buying groceries = controlling, playing games.

Not giving money = possibly justifiable, arguably refusing to support the kids.

Think about the audience, not just your relationship with your ex.

I'd agree with this *if* the payment agreement you (the OP) have with your ex is below state calculated support guidelines.  However, if you are indeed paying the state guideline support amount, then the court will likely put the burden on her to prove why she deserves more than guideline.  I don't think the court will penalize you or otherwise look upon you poorly because you refuse to pay more than guideline support.  As ForeverDad said, the courts do love their support calculators.

I'd avoid setting precedents by giving extra here and there.

[40days_in_desert]

Thank you StayStrongNow and HopefulDad. I didn't give her anything. Sometimes it helps to hear the affirmation from others. I consulted my T also to see what she thought and she said the same thing as you two. She needs to learn to stand on her own two feet somehow and bailing her out isn't going to help her do that.

[Sunfl0wer]

I feel confused.
Cable? Pool?  -Not a necessity. 
I cut my costs and stopped my cable, I watch Hulu or Netflix and my Netflix is a shared account so free to me.
Then her meds?  She is admitting to using the kids child support monies for her meds?  (Or maybe this is spousal support, idk)

Yea, idk a thing about this, but maybe this is not what court meant for her to spend the child support money.  I don't hear her supporting basic needs?

Idk, I'm in the US, they have food banks, and pantries and even school places that will feed kids.  I personally wouldn't be using such resources then paying such costs on cable and pool.

Sounds like you already got some pretty pragmatic approaches though.

(Just was a bit taken back over her listing non kid necessity things!)

[david]

If she does take you to court make sure you have her communications highlighting the things she is spending money on, not the kids, especially since you are paying the state calculated amount already.

[ForeverDad]

A lesson I learned long ago... .Be aware when someone tries to turn their problems into your problems.  Weigh all the factors and then use good judgment.

In this case you need to understand that court almost surely will not care one bit how 'nice' or how 'kind' you are.  Your ex already has gotten enough protections from the court, AKA default preferences, child support and possibly some short term spousal support.  Doing more should be for your own conscience or benefit as father, it won't shift how the court may or may not view you.  And doing extra could be interpreted by her as (1) enabling her to seek more and (2) her believing your firm boundaries have a weakness and should be further undermined.