UBPDh suicidal ideations

[snowglobe]

Hello all, I decided to start a new topic, as I’m really out of my depth here and could use any related advice/insight. I’m used to uBPDh being in a “raging lunatic mode”, aka splitting. In our case he can go for a week without an incident and then split on the hourly basis. However, yesterday was different. I mentioned in my other posts regarding his addictive personality, he either does things to the max or doesn’t do them at all. Video games have always been an issue for our unit, if he plays, and inevitably looses at some point he splits big time. He has been on his phone playing all of the summer and now fall. When he looses, he starts yelling and swearing. It’s very scary even for me as an adult, I can only imagine what our kids might feel. This “raging” can start at any point in a day, weekends and evenings are especially tough, as I can’t take the kids out at 11 pm, or just before or after their bedtime. I’ve tried many different approaches to help him see that the gaming addiction is hurting him and us in the process. From “you don’t see happy when you play”, as mere observation to “Let’s agree to put the devises away when we are together as a family” implying that I will also put my device away and focus all attention on him and the kids. Nothing seems to work. Yesterday after a night of playing he started yelling profanities, as my parents were on a date night and s10 was on a play date. It was only uBPDh, me and d14. When I came back from running an errand d14 sent me a text message that he was splitting. I went upstairs to d14 to try and soothe her, leaving him alone downstairs to rage. My parents came back shortly, and he went upstairs. He walked into d14 bedroom a few times, laid down with us and seemingly wanted to connect. However when I went to bed a few hours later, it all came crushing down. He was still playing, seemingly manic, swearing and saying frightening things. I went to bed in hopes of falling fast asleep, I usually can. It wasn’t in the cards last night, he proceeded to talk to me/himself that he has been “miserable for the past 10 years and wants to die, that there is no reason or will for him to continue living”, he doesn’t enjoy his family and when we sell the house and move, he wants to move out on his own. I don’t remember all that he said, what I do remember is me asking if he was planning to hurt himself or anyone else, he said that he is Christian and can’t do that... he then started saying, with wide open eyes “G-d, please take me, I don’t want to live, I want to die”. He also complained of how “fat he has gotten” (complete and utter body dysmorphia, his mommy dearest convinced him that he is fat and ugly when he was a child, he is now chasing unrealistic perfection goal, that is completely not his body type. He is athletic, fit and very handsome, yet he consideres himself repulsive). How he can’t breathe, and wheezed on purpose like a chimney, largely due to a fact that he is a habitual smoker for over 20 years and his lungs are filled with mucus. I’ve tried it all, smoke sessating medication, hypnosis, cold turkey, patches, you name it. Driven by a constant need to save him life I’ve made him get every medical test and see every specialist in the field, yet he always came back to his “cancer stick” (yet another habit acquired from mommy dearest). He went on to tell me that he has a year to live, and soon will die leaving me and the kids to be happy?. This continued into 2 am, me emphasizing with him, telling that I’m so sorry he is feeling like that, it is a terrible feeling to live with, and how he wants to be helped. Slowly it subsided and he fell asleep, allowing me to drift off too. I’ve had 4 hours of sleep, with kids and school and helping our business. He is fast asleep... .and I’m sitting and contemplating on what to do. I have 2 goals in mind: 1. I need him to stop playing, when he doesn’t play he doesn’t split as often. Once a week comparing to minute to minute basis is a big deal for me
2. I need my sleep, I can’t function or help myself, let alone take care of family and driving while being sleep deprived. I’m being “punished” if I leave the bedroom to sleep elsewhere. It triggers abandonment issues for him. I need to establish a boundary, how do I do it? (Couldn’t leave him with suicidal theoughts alone last night)
3. What do I do with suicidal thoughts? He says he won’t do it by his hand, whatever that means, yet I don’t rule out him “seeking it out”.
4. How do I involve mental health professional, and should I?
Thank you for reading

[babyducks]

Hi,

a couple of thoughts but before we get going a cautionary note,   what ever you decide to do or not do, you want to think carefully about it okay?.   you want to go into things in your 'wise mind', not driven by reaction, but from a calm state.   how that would look for you?

. I’ve tried many different approaches to help him see that the gaming addiction is hurting him and us in the process.

some one here once said that they weren't in a relationship as much as they were in "a needs entitlement war".   Yeah I could relate to that.    He has a need to play these games, he is getting something out of them,   a place to dump all his negative emotions.  He won't willing leave a game because it's addictive and it's like fuel for his chaotic energy.    

Explaining to him that's it's hurting him and your family is like trying to tell an alcoholic that drinking is bad for them.   It's going to fall on deaf ears.     JADE  or Justifying, arguing, defending or explaining is not your friend here.   there is no perfect approach, no one explanation that will make him see that his behavior is inappropriate.   I would guess that continuing to discuss it will only keep him doubling down.   people with mental illnesses of this nature don't argue to resolve a conflict but to keep you engaged in their turmoil.    does that make sense?

which is not to say you should tolerate being raged at.    that's what boundaries are for.   the boundary you think carefully about and work to establish is going to take some time,  it should reflect your values, something you believe so strongly that you won't back away but will continue to enforce time after time.

I can't say what your values are.  that's up to you to define okay?  but to use one for example your value may be I deserve a place of peace and quiet for myself and my children where we can relax and rest safe from emotional volatility.   I'm using that because I had a similar value.   For me I needed a place where I wasn't going to be under the pressure of an emotional dysregulation.   I worked to create a space that served as "my bolt hole to run to", when emotions got heated.   It was important that I left an emotional dysregulation in an appropriate way.    It meant I needed to learn almost a new language.    untangling myself from an emotional dysregulation was a skill I needed to learn.    staying in and going toe to toe was not helpful.   It was hard to leave when I was hearing things like 'sure leave you don't care about me either'... .but staying never helped.

some of the phrases I used when leaving an emotional dysregulation where:

"I can see this is important but neither of us are at our best right now, let's talk again when we are both rested."

"I need to stop this conversation here because I am becoming emotionally overloaded, let's talk about this again tomorrow with your therapist".

make sense?

.
  I have 2 goals in mind: 1. I need him to stop playing, when he doesn’t play he doesn’t split as often. Once a week comparing to minute to minute basis is a big deal for me
2. I need my sleep, I can’t function or help myself, let alone take care of family and driving while being sleep deprived. I’m being “punished” if I leave the bedroom to sleep elsewhere. It triggers abandonment issues for him. I need to establish a boundary, how do I do it? (Couldn’t leave him with suicidal theoughts alone last night)

I would suggest you flip these two goals.  Put yourself and your sleep first.

and I would suggest that the rage that comes from the gaming is more the problem than the gaming... .stopping the addictive gaming might slow the raging but it would still exist.  

I think in one of your other threads some one talked about the Karpman Drama Triangle right?

Here is how I understand the drama triangle.   There are three roles:

The Persecutor - the person who thinks "this is your fault, you are not Okay but I am so I will tell you what to do".    

The Rescuer - the person who thinks "You need my help, you are not Okay but I am nice so I will fix you".

and the Victim - who thinks "poor me, I am not okay, everyone else is and I can't fix it so I give up."

you want to try to swing those roles from Persecutor to Challenger - some one who clearly states where their role begins and ends.   " I am willing to listen to your story for ten minutes without becoming responsible for it."   No - I don't mean saying this out loud,   more of a mind set,   From Rescuer to Coach "I care about you and know you are capable, what do you think you should do about this?"    and from Victim to Survivor -how can I get what I want in a healthy way.

.
 
3. What do I do with suicidal thoughts? He says he won’t do it by his hand, whatever that means, yet I don’t rule out him “seeking it out”.
4. How do I involve mental health professional, and should I?
Thank you for reading

There are no short term immediate flip a switch solutions to this.    There is no magic set of words that will change how he thinks or feels.   That's up to him.    I would suggest you try to listen with empathy without rescuing.    "That sounds like a very difficult spot to be in,  what do you think you should do about it?    If a mental health professional gets involved it typically goes better when the client is ready and receptive.   "those sound like some very painful emotions - have you ever thought about getting some help with your feeling of sadness?"  

I would suggest you make a careful plan on how to approach this.   I think it's valuable to talk about stuff of this complexity live with a trained professional.   Is there a toll free number, like a hot line number where you are, for suicide prevention?    do you have a therapist who you can sit down and go through the details with?    If it is possible I would recommend it.  

this is difficult stuff.    

'ducks

[snowglobe]

@babyducks, what a wealth of information, especially the gaming issue. My uBPDh is in his late 40s, and in my experience, videogaming is somewhat of a stage for teenagers and otherwise younger audience. Watching him day after day after day distorting reality made me resentful. As if he was doing it on purpose to make me and the kids upset. Perhaps he is sicker then I realized, and the gaming solution is far healthier Outlet for his emotions and turbulent reality. I do feel responsible for his well being, for better or worse, as they say. However, it looks as my best intentions actually create more turmoil.
Speaking of your caution of “wisemind”, I have a lot of things going on for me, perhaps it’s more natural and healthier alternative on focusing on solving things that I have control over. That, in term will hopefully allow some time for him to calm down. So we can have a conversation.
The major issue is loose loose setuation. If I try to save him, I’m being cursed and told off, at best. At worse he rejects me and enforced the silent treatment onto our relationships. If I don’t, and just carry about my own business, I don’t care about him, we are two different people, and he wants to divorce. Neither of those are providing a healthy solution that I’m seeking. I know that I’m supposed to let him fail, and absorb the consequences of his failure. However, knowing his past history, there isn’t one positive outcome in his interpersonal relationships, regardless if it was his ex- grand love of his life, his parents or his friends that withheld the test of BPD. Once he burns the bridge, he moves on with no regrets or looking back. I’m sincerely afraid of being discarded just like all of those poor souls. People have no meaning for him, his initial grieving stage lasts a few days, he becomes sad and then cuts off all contact. It Niigata work for BPD person, I, however see no possibility for recycle should he end things with me.

[babyducks]

Hi,

You have a lot going on, several pretty significant issues.  I would suggest you try to avoid conflating them into one.   In other words,    avoid doing the kitchen sink thing.   This and this and this and the kitchen sink.    They will be easier to handle if you break them down into smaller parts.  

I do feel responsible for his well being, for better or worse, as they say.

He is a grown man in his 40's.  He has the right to make his own decisions.   even if they are poor decisions.   and he should feel the consequences of his decisions, both the good and the bad.

The major issue is loose loose setuation. If I try to save him, I’m being cursed and told off, at best. At worse he rejects me and enforced the silent treatment onto our relationships. If I don’t, and just carry about my own business, I don’t care about him, we are two different people, and he wants to divorce

First you can't 'save' him.   You can offer support,   give advice, help troubleshoot options.

And second,   what you are describing is a double bind.    a double bind works because one of the choices is frightening.   as long as the idea of divorce is frightening and one that you want to avoid facing than the circular conversations will continue and you'll be trapped in the cycle of conflict.

Please understand I am not saying divorce shouldn't be scary.   It is.    I am not saying you are either right or wrong to avoid it.    I am saying as long as it exists as the boogie man you'll be hamstrung with your ability to communicate with him.   Silent treatment, threats of divorce are bait, to keep you both, as couple operating, within his maladaptive coping techniques.

Can you see that?

to break the cycle of conflict requires emotional strength and resilience.    How many times have you tried to save him?   How many times has he threatened divorce?   and yet,   here you both are having the same conversation over and over.    in this same conversation he gets to create a scenario where everything else is someone else's fault and responsibility.    He gets to assume the victim role on the triangle.    he creates a self fulfilling prophecy that re-enforces his view of the world and operative from within his distorted world view.    

just as someone else said in your other thread continuing this over and over is a form of enabling.

Let me ask you,... .if you could identify one thing,   just one thing,... .that you would like to see change in your relationship,... .something that would make you feel more comfortable,   better,... .what would that be?

'ducks

[evanescent]

Please understand I am not saying divorce shouldn't be scary.   It is.    I am not saying you are either right or wrong to avoid it.    I am saying as long as it exists as the boogie man you'll be hamstrung with your ability to communicate with him.   Silent treatment, threats of divorce are bait, to keep you both, as couple operating, within his maladaptive coping techniques.

Can you see that?

to break the cycle of conflict requires emotional strength and resilience.    How many times have you tried to save him?   How many times has he threatened divorce?   and yet,   here you both are having the same conversation over and over.    in this same conversation he gets to create a scenario where everything else is someone else's fault and responsibility.    He gets to assume the victim role on the triangle.    he creates a self fulfilling prophecy that re-enforces his view of the world and operative from within his distorted world view.    

just as someone else said in your other thread continuing this over and over is a form of enabling.

Heed this. It is okay to not want a divorce, but when it is used as leverage, nothing healthy comes of it.

I am guilty of having enabled the same behavior in my spouse as my own form of avoidance. I forget how many times it was threatened. It always ended the same, getting us peace for a short while, but ultimately stacked back onto the deck to be used again by 'the victim'. She didn't understand any other way to handle it.