Need some advice on dealing with BPD spouse with child involved

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Hi all.

I'm new here.  Still learning all the terms and acronyms but will do my best to be clear.

So my wife is BPD -- probably.  She's professionally undiagnosed, but diagnosed by me based on everything I've been reading and learning about the disorder.  (Let's just say that I've been reading this stuff and thinking "How is it that these people are describing my life back to me?"

She is also an alcoholic, again professionally undiagnosed, but diagnosed by me based on my observations of her drinking habits.  She gets through about one 1.75 liter bottle of brandy a week.

I am at the point in the relationship where I don't really see any future. There has been so much water under the bridge, and she is so fixated on past wrongs, that it's really hard for me to see us recovering.  We are both in individual therapy, where I used to spend week after week just complaining about all the crazy stuff she was doing, but now I'm working through my own issues (living with a person with BPD, why I allowed her behavior for so long, and how to manage it going forward). I don't know what she talks about in her therapy. 

Up until recently I thought that our couples therapy session was about how we could at least be on speaking terms and live together in the same house, to try and build a base upon which to recover our relationship.  Now I suspect that she's in couples therapy to a) make sure that I'm not about to abandon her, and b) get a weekly fix of drama that I'm not providing her with at home.

For a long time I have been slowly edging towards the door but FOG has been preventing me from leaving. My number one fear is what will happen to our son.  He just turned nine.  Up until now I have been doing 95% of the parenting.  She barely has anything to do with him -- she doesn't get up to see him off to school in the morning (that's my job), doesn't pick him off the school bus in the afternoon (my job), has never arranged a playdate (my job), doesn't take him to sports practice or come to any of his games -- you get the picture. Of course she insists that it's my fault that she can't do any of these things (which I know now is not true).  She makes his bed, washes his clothes, gives him his shower at the end of the day (most days, unless she's passed out) and that's about it.

All that said, I'm genuinely concerned about leaving because even though we've been together for going on 20 years, I'm still not certain of how far she is capable of going when she is angry. I've had glimpses, but always with the threat that "it could be worse." She knows my vulnerabilities, and she knows that if she really, really wants to hurt me then hurting our son is the best way to get to me.  She has not -- not really -- done anything bad to him yet.  I believe she does love him.  But when she is dysregulated, and if I abandon her, I don't know if that will matter.

I understand intellectually that I have to fight this fear, but actually doing it is another matter.  What I'm looking for is some support and advice from anyone who has had to disengage from a BPD when there is a young child involved.  Some idea of what to expect and how to deal with it.

Thanks for listening.

[BlueJayS]

Hi all.

I'm new here.  Still learning all the terms and acronyms but will do my best to be clear.

So my wife is BPD -- probably.  She's professionally undiagnosed, but diagnosed by me based on everything I've been reading and learning about the disorder.  (Let's just say that I've been reading this stuff and thinking "How is it that these people are describing my life back to me?"

She is also an alcoholic, again professionally undiagnosed, but diagnosed by me based on my observations of her drinking habits.  She gets through about one 1.75 liter bottle of brandy a week.

I am at the point in the relationship where I don't really see any future. There has been so much water under the bridge, and she is so fixated on past wrongs, that it's really hard for me to see us recovering.  We are both in individual therapy, where I used to spend week after week just complaining about all the crazy stuff she was doing, but now I'm working through my own issues (living with a person with BPD, why I allowed her behavior for so long, and how to manage it going forward). I don't know what she talks about in her therapy. 

Up until recently I thought that our couples therapy session was about how we could at least be on speaking terms and live together in the same house, to try and build a base upon which to recover our relationship.  Now I suspect that she's in couples therapy to a) make sure that I'm not about to abandon her, and b) get a weekly fix of drama that I'm not providing her with at home.

For a long time I have been slowly edging towards the door but FOG has been preventing me from leaving. My number one fear is what will happen to our son.  He just turned nine.  Up until now I have been doing 95% of the parenting.  She barely has anything to do with him -- she doesn't get up to see him off to school in the morning (that's my job), doesn't pick him off the school bus in the afternoon (my job), has never arranged a playdate (my job), doesn't take him to sports practice or come to any of his games -- you get the picture. Of course she insists that it's my fault that she can't do any of these things (which I know now is not true).  She makes his bed, washes his clothes, gives him his shower at the end of the day (most days, unless she's passed out) and that's about it.

All that said, I'm genuinely concerned about leaving because even though we've been together for going on 20 years, I'm still not certain of how far she is capable of going when she is angry. I've had glimpses, but always with the threat that "it could be worse." She knows my vulnerabilities, and she knows that if she really, really wants to hurt me then hurting our son is the best way to get to me.  She has not -- not really -- done anything bad to him yet.  I believe she does love him.  But when she is dysregulated, and if I abandon her, I don't know if that will matter.

I understand intellectually that I have to fight this fear, but actually doing it is another matter.  What I'm looking for is some support and advice from anyone who has had to disengage from a BPD when there is a young child involved.  Some idea of what to expect and how to deal with it.

Thanks for listening.

[PeteWitsend]

Hi Jay,

welcome.  I'm in a similar boat as you, but my kids are younger (4&2).  while my uBPD wife is not violent, and not as extreme as some stories I've read here, I've still has some of the same concerns as you have, with respect to what happens
to the kids if we split

In response to your specific question, I'd check under the family law and divorce section and ask the same question again. 

Some people have handled this as well as could be expected, given the circumstances.

seems like as kids get older, conflict with a BPD parent increases, as the child asserts more of their own independence.

fortunately, at least from the accounts I've read here, kids seem to figure out on their own who the stable parent is; you just need to make sure you provide them with as safe a place as you can, and let them make up their own minds.

spousal alienation of the children is a big concern.

the potential of physical or mental harm is horrifying; obviously no one can guarantee against that.  but I don't know how common it is.  there's a chance that if you remove yourself from the situation, there will simply be less conflict, and she'll leave your son more or less alone.

if you split custody, but she 's not making sure he gets to school, takes care of him, etc. & you document this, it's quite likely you could get near enough full custody. 

hard to say.  but you have to focus on what you can control and stay diligent.

[AskingWhy]

Dear JaySG, welcome to the boards.  It is good that you are in some form of therapy.  Addictive habits (drugs, alcohol, social media, promiscuity, etc.) are common in pwBPD.

Your story is very familiar to many of us.

First off, protect your son.  

You understand well the dynamics of BPD and you know your wife fits the diagnostic criteria.  :)o not let your son be damaged by his mother's behavior.  If he has been witness to the drama and rages that are common in BPD families, he may have already been "tainted" by his watching the unhealthy interactions.  You are his rock and sanity.  As you seem to be his main "caregiver," you may be able to get custody of him in the event you file for divorce.  You might be able to argue that your wife has mental conditions that might endanger the child.  Be aware that some courts default custody to the mother.  :)ocument everything that you observe or even record the rages when they occur.

You describe that your wife is not too emotionally invested in your son.  She seems to me to provide some level of care for your son, but she is emotionally unavailable to him.  She is not giving him the love one expects from a mother.  This in itself can cause mental problems as he grows into adolescence and beyond.  

Does this seem to be the case?

As for yourself, read the communication techniques and articles you will find here that will help when your wife does dysregulate.

You are not alone in this.

[BlueJayS]

I feel like I'm at a "tipping point." I'd say that I'm definitely just tolerating our relationship at this point and it wouldn't have gone on this long if it hadn't been for our son.  The situation now in the house is best descibed as "icy" -- we both communicate fine with our son individually, but we barely communicate with each other, and this occurs in front of him.

Ironically the situation is actually better than it was.  My wife's mother used to live with us -- she has Alzheimer's, and they would frequently get into raging arguments during which my mother-in-law would threaten to commit suicide (which makes me think that there might be some BPD going on there too, but that's another story).  This would occur in front of our son, and at the time I said we had to separate because I couldn't tolerate that any longer.  We went so far as to see a mediator to talk about a divorce, but my wife then moved her mother out to an assisted living facility and asked me to stay and "see how things went." I got sucked back in, stayed, and things continued to deteriorate from there.

I'm less worried about what she might do to our son physically and more worried about what she might do to him psychologically. She has from time to time involved him inappropriately in our discussions/arguments -- for example, we were once discussing plans for his fourth birthday party while he was out of the room.  I suggested that maybe we didn't need to do a big birthday production for him that year and just do something quiet instead. When he came into the room she turned to him and said, ":)addy doesn't want you to have a birthday party this year." Another time, when I was angry about her cheating on me, she threw us both out of the house, telling my then five-year-old that he would "have to help daddy find a new place to live."

But the point about "kids seem to figure out on their own who the stable parent is" is well taken, and I think I will have to rely on that to get me through, although what troubles me is not just that she might tell him negative things about me, but that she is very good at gaslighting. No matter what the true reality of the situation is, she may create a new "reality" for him that will do lasting damage and take him years to overcome.

I do think she is aware that she has the potential to damage him though.  I used to believe that her not spending time with him and essentially abandoning him to my care was just her being a bad mom, but I'm starting to come around to the idea that in fact she knows that she could really screw him up and she has basically trusted me as the "stable one" to take care of his upbringing.  So I'm weirdly grateful for that, in a way.  Although yes, I know that having a distant mother is not necessarily going to be great for him emotionally as he grows older -- I'm just not sure what to do about it, or if there's anything I *can* do about it.

Anyway, thanks again for the replies.  Just being able to write this stuff down is very helpful to me and I appreciate your kind responses.

[PeteWitsend]

it terms of your spouse " gaslighting" your son (a term that I understand this board does not like using), I've read some people handle this by simply saying to their kids, "your (parent) has their own opinions about things, as do I.  it's up to you to decide what you think is correct."

that allows the child/teen to think it through for themselves, and doesn't drag them into a he said/she said situation like it would if you responded with "your mom is wrong because... ."

kids can recognize the difference between a parent telling them what to believe and one respecting them enough to allow them to come to their own conclusion (and respect it, and not punish them for disagreeing)

In terms of the MIL situation you just endured... .YIKES!

I may be getting into that myself.  plan is my MIL will come live with us sometime next year.  she's from another country and doesn't speak English, but from what I understand & have seen, she is a high conflict person as well, and she and my wife fight like cats and dogs when together (yet of course wife wants her to come live with us & near us, and reacts angrily whenever I try to express my concerns about it).