Look of destruction

[Frankee]

My BPH had another step back.  I'm not sure if I handled it right.  He has another morning, coming out storming.  I was in the other bedroom and I hear him holler about his medicine.  Carrying on about how his brother knew he needed it today.  I didn't even react.  I told him that I told his brother and that he was down the street doing yard work. 

He ranted that it's his day off and how we are never here when he gets up.  He yelled about something that we're never ready when he is.  Something about how we spend all his money,  like to see us work 100 hours a week and then not get to spend any of it.  I'm trying to recall the things he said.  Find it a little fuzzy  to remember word for word. Think the whole detachment thing was going on. 

I remember the tone, angry, yelling, he had this look at his face.  Red, eyes teary, hair messy, glaring eyes.  I didn't get upset and raise my voice.  I talked to him like we had a normal conversation.  I saw an excuse to exit the scene.  Told him I would walk down the street to talk to his brother.  He yelled that when he gets back that he better have his medicine.   

When I  returned, he was getting ready to leave.  He asked what did he said.  Told him it would be ready at noon.  Followed up with saying that it was normal for it to be ready at that time.  He said we don't know what normal is, we are a bunch of wierdos.  I don't take offense to that at all.  When I'm actually wierd, it's funny and the kids agree.

I didn't react, get upset, argue,  invalidate anything, just kept calm, talked normally, and was able to step away.  Does it seem this is appropriate when he's blowing smoke out his butt,  saying this and that when I know none of it is true? 

[formflier]

  invalidate anything, just kept calm,   

Perhaps you did invalidate by ignoring the obvious upsetness.  I do agree this was likely a better way to handle it than yelling back or convincing him to calm down.

However... .ignoring obvious distress could ... .likely... .fuels things.

"Hey... .is there something upsetting going on?"

"Can I help?"

"I'm not going to be able to help with yelling between us."  don't accuse him

Good job on leaving... .I would have skipped saying where you were going.  Had he asked you to solve this for him?

More later.

FF

[formflier]

In my relationship I figured out that me staying where she could see me, while she was upset, especially if I was not "participating"... ."reacting"... whatever... .keep fueling her fire.

If I left the room or went for walk... .basically out of eyesight... .the fire would start to burn out.

I know you want to help make things better.  Solving things for him that he has not asked for help with (in a respectful way) is unlikely to help the long term behavior get better.  Although it may solve the "crisis of the moment"

FF

[formflier]

Talking to an upset person.

Acknowledge what you see.  Ask what's up.

"Hey... babe... .your eyes are red and teary.  Are you ok?"

Said in a friendly way can be validating and perhaps soothing.  "pretending" that nothing is going on could "validate" the belief that nobody cares for him... .people ignore him... etc etc. 

Please understand your reactions are not "right or wrong"... .but more of a good... .better... .best thing. 

I think you did better... .still room for improvement.

Thoughts?

FF

[Skip]

There are three ways to handle this:

1. Fight back or run off (not a good idea)

2. Be centered (as in Karpman triangle antidotes)

3. Validate his distress.

You did #2. Formflier is suggesting #3. Both are tools you should use and picking the right one depends on the whats going on in general.

Was he really concerned about his medicine? Use #2.

Was he just being ___y? Use #3.

[Frankee]

The responses are really great.  I didn't think about doing #3.  I guess I felt he was just being ___y.  It seems to be a theme with him on the day's we have off work together.  He wakes up angry about whatever it is, finds something to start hollering about, and ends up storming out. Last week it was my hair straightener that set him off. 

The whole thing with his medicine isn't new.  Everytime we have to get it, its ready after 12pm.  I probably could have acknowledged his state of mind, I guess part of me was thinking it might refuel his anger and restart the rant.

I gave him space and I didn't chase him when he left  he called shortly after 12:30 and was talking like nothing was wrong and actually asked if his brother was done with his work.  He came back home and was chatting up his brother and cracking jokes. 

It wasn't nearly as bad.  I think next time I'll validate his state if distress and see the results.

[formflier]

There is not "one" answer to all of this.  As you gain experience using tools, you will find value in mixing them up so they don't get "stale".
 
Validation can take effort and is something best accomplished when you are at "top of your game".  So, perhaps... .if you had a bad night sleep the right answer might have been "Babe... .I didn't sleep well and I'm having a hard time following this conversation, I'm going to take a walk and be back in 10 minutes"... .that would kind of be a #1 response.

A big benefit of these boards (at least for me) is to have people look at your situation and ask "what's up with this?"... .many times that's a place you can make a change that "improves" the dynamic.

I'm curious why he doesn't deal with his brother directly, vice send messages back and forth through you?

I'm curious why you are involved in medication for your husband?

Stay strong!  Looking forward to more chats.

FF

[Frankee]

A big benefit of these boards (at least for me) is to have people look at your situation and ask "what's up with this?"... .many times that's a place you can make a change that "improves" the dynamic.

I'm curious why he doesn't deal with his brother directly, vice send messages back and forth through you?

I'm curious why you are involved in medication for your husband?

Stay strong!  Looking forward to more chats.

FF

Something I am learning as I am becoming more aware of things is... he has a hard time dealing with normal day to day things.  I'm not saying he's incompetent by any means.  He is very smart and some of the things he knows astounds me.  It's just when, dealing with things such as bills, rent, childcare, cooking, cleaning, responsibilities with the household... he's very much a pass the buck kind of person.  He focuses on the larger picture.  All in all I guess that is a good balance in some ways.  He stresses about being able to get a mortgage next year when we want to move, finding good neighborhoods, researching homes, locations, making sure the truck is running smooth (we have an older vehicle that requires more maintenance). 

That's why I like to post on here, even if it seems mundane or really not that big of an issue sometimes.  Having someone from the outside looking that is going through similar things, helps me to understand what I can do better to give myself peace of mind.  I get mad sometimes because I feel like monkey in the middle.  I think his whole sarcastic remark about me acting like the queen bee and running things isn't too far off.  I do run things around my house.  If I stopped doing what I was doing, everything would fall apart.  It sucks.  It sucks seriously bad sometimes.  Even on my days off, I don't get a day off.  He doesn't help with household items.  Our oldest thinks the world of him because his interactions with his dad are so few and far that his dad can be the fun cool parent.  I find that at times I'm made out to be the hard ass who catches all the attitude from our son because I have to deal with the "unfun" stuff. 

The whole things with his brother's, I've decided no more.  I'm not saying anything that comes off as nagging about them to my H or my H to his brothers.  I decided to put my foot down and not complain/nag/etc to any of them.  I got yelled at by my H because his brother was bit**in about something to my H about something he didn't like that I was doing.  I had no idea and it pissed me off his brother didn't just come talk to me about the issue instead of complaining to his brother.  From now on, if I need to complain or vent, it's all going to be on here.  Tired of this family drama bs.  Stressing me out so bad.

 

[formflier]

When people b$tch about someone else... .  "That sounds like something to talk to Marty about... "

or

"Oh goodness... that sounds horrible.  What did Marty say when you discussed this with him?"  (this is my favorite... .because "they" are usually like... ."i didn't talk to Marty"

At which point you can remain "authentic" and be shocked and say... ."Oh my goodness... why wouldn't you speak to Marty directly about this?"

Again... bemused... .perhaps a touch of concern.

Maybe end up with "Ok... good luck talking to Marty... ."

So... next FF challenge. 

If you are the "star athlete" on your team and you want your team members to score more points... .you have to let them practice trying to score.

In the short run... .that may result in the total score going down.  You may even loose a game.

Seriously... .think big picture... .how to people get stronger without "going to the gym"... ?

How does that apply to you running the home?

FF

[Frankee]

When people b$tch about someone else... .  "That sounds like something to talk to Marty about... "
or
"Oh goodness... that sounds horrible.  What did Marty say when you discussed this with him?"  (this is my favorite... .because "they" are usually like... ."i didn't talk to Marty"

At which point you can remain "authentic" and be shocked and say... ."Oh my goodness... why wouldn't you speak to Marty directly about this?"

So... next FF challenge. 

If you are the "star athlete" on your team and you want your team members to score more points... .you have to let them practice trying to score.

In the short run... .that may result in the total score going down.  You may even loose a game.

Seriously... .think big picture... .how to people get stronger without "going to the gym"... ?

How does that apply to you running the home?

Got some "tough love" from him.  Really wanted to tell him he was being an unsupportive jerk.  I've been tired, stressed out, and just short patience last couple days.  Decided that when he calls me at work, I'm not going to answer unless I have real time to talk and I'm in a calm state of mind.  Snapped at him about how last couple days have been stressful at work and dealing with crappy people.  That turned into about him.  How he always has bad days at work, how he didn't want to hear about how I'm putting my job in jeopardy, how he isn't going to support everyone if I lose this job because I'm stressing out, how he has to deal with drunk people coming in and doesn't let them get to him. 

Says he's trying to work on his stuff and when his stuff gets better, my stuff gets worse.  How he's trying to talk to my calmly and I keep getting an attitude.  Asked me if I want him to go back to yelling and screaming.  Felt my lid blow.  What an insensitive prick.  Has nothing to do with him and his "stuff".  I told him that I have been really tired, I have been stressed out, my job isn't in jeopardy because I am fully capable of acting like everything is fine to guests and my employer.  I had to make a couple calls at work.  He calls back twice and I refuse to answer.  I don't even call back until I've calmed down, collected myself, and was in a quiet space.  He had changed his tune.  Asked if I was okay to talk.  He still had a way of making me feel like I couldn't talk to him about stuff going on at work because all thought forbid he has to worry about me losing my job. 

I'm thinking of passing the ball.  I get into the mentality of it will get done faster and how I like it done if I just do it myself.  I don't like mess.  I try so hard to keep a clean house, but it's starting to feel like an uphill battle.  I feel like I'm back sliding.  I was in the "geared up from improvement" to now back to feeling tired, strung out, tossing the tools and tips out the window.  I have to do something different.  On the upside is, I've been catching myself sliding back before I get the point where I'm contacting the abuse hotline.  I don't want to feel that way ever again. 

I have to admit, I think it's lingering feeling of loss.  I wasn't like best buddies ever with my friend that passed away, but she always seemed to have an upbeat attitude, even in her dire situations.  I admired how she was always thinking of her kids, trying so hard to get her life back together.  Another friend from back home was supposed to come visit for the holidays.  Her current boyfriend was being a jerk and told her no, even though she made up some bs excuse.  This forum is good, but it would of been nice to see a couple familiar faces. 

[Cat Familiar]

Frankee,
What I read in your posts is that you're working so hard, keeping things together at work and at home with very little support. And without any acknowledgment and appreciation. So I get it. I see how difficult this is for you and how you really don't get any breaks, with kids and all the responsibilities you have.

I understand. I do so much around my place too: rural ranch land with lots of animals. My husband has no skills for carpentry, plumbing, fencing, veterinary stuff--so I do it all and if it's beyond my pay grade, I hire someone to do it. Thankfully he can easily afford to pay for it, but he still tries to guilt trip me about the expense.

I think he's somewhat guilty because I'm so handy and he's not, but I never really get any appreciation for the work I do, so I have to make a mental note to tell myself how great it is that I've accomplished something, or that I keep something together, or that I've cooked something--he's also incompetent in the domestic arts too. Thankfully he washes his own clothes.

But it really gets to a person to never get acknowledgment or appreciation for all those things you do everyday. When they just go unnoticed and unappreciated, it feels like one's partner just feels entitled to being taken care of without even noticing all that goes into it.

Anyway, just wanted to let you know that other people understand.

[Frankee]

Frankee,
What I read in your posts is that you're working so hard, keeping things together at work and at home with very little support. And without any acknowledgment and appreciation. So I get it. I see how difficult this is for you and how you really don't get any breaks, with kids and all the responsibilities you have.

I have to make a mental note to tell myself how great it is that I've accomplished something, or that I keep something together, or that I've cooked something.

But it really gets to a person to never get acknowledgment or appreciation for all those things you do everyday. When they just go unnoticed and unappreciated, it feels like one's partner just feels entitled to being taken care of without even noticing all that goes into it.

Anyway, just wanted to let you know that other people understand.

Thank you Cat.  Sometimes that all a person needs to hear is that they aren't the only ones feeling a certain way.  That feeling of "I'm completely alone" is sometimes worse than what's actually occurring. Our 7 year old tells me I'm the greatest mom ever, he loves me, likes to be around me.  Our youngest can't talk yet, but he shows affectionate in other ways.  That does help lessen the feeling that I'm completely unappreciated it.  I can't however always count on my kids for that crutch. 

I'm feeling a little wounded. Posted a separate topic today about some concerning text messages.  My H lives by such a double standard that sometimes is so "in my face" obvious that it astounds me that even he doesn't see it.  It seems ever since I've joined this forum, the FOG has been greatly lifted and I'm becoming more aware of things that are actually happening.  It's also given me clarity on how to better deal and get past a lot.  I pat myself on the back for being able to self soothe.  Finds things that can inspire, motivate, bring me back to center point, and can change my attitude in a snap.  Last night I was feeling sassy and my H definitely picked up on it.  Asked me what was wrong with me.  I simply paused, shrugged, and said nothing and carried on with what I was doing.  I did really well at keep a calm center last night. 

Another double standard.  I'm tuned into his crazy emotional swings, but I adapt, go with the flow, and make changes as needed.  When he picks up on when I'm acting "weird" or "what's wrong with me", its usually because I've switched to a state of mind that throws him off and he doesn't know what to think.

I agree though.  He definitely feels entitled that I need to cater to his emotional need and when I'm on the down side of feeling well, it gets twisted to where it's about him and how I'm putting stress on him, I'm going to lose my job because I'm acting sick/tired/stressed, etc.  One entity right?  I feel at times I'm the female mirror version of him.  When I'm not strong, kicking butt, holding down stuff, getting things right... it reflects badly on him.

[formflier]

A quick note about double standards that are "in your face".  Usually, especially if it is via text, there are ways to keep it out of your face, with appropriate boundaries.

Note:  Most "nons" get confused because they hope there is an option to "do" boundaries and have their pwBPD "like" it... .or "accept" it. 

The critical thing is to get the boundary busting behavior "out of your face".

Thoughts?

FF

[Frankee]

I got this reply on one of my posts.

My uBPDw used the term "righteous anger" when describing his/her own anger when I called it out there and then. No, they cannot see it at all as they have limited ability to self-reflect even in hindsight.

Can you elaborate of the critical thing is to get the boundary busting behavior "out of your face"... ?

I keep hearing about setting boundaries, but then as others say we set boundaries and expect of pwBPD to like or accept it.  It's damn hard to enforce boundaries.  They are times where I don't have the energy to keep boundaries I'm trying to set for myself and I know that's not a good thing.  What I will or will not accept. 

I do have to admit that I feel I'm getting better at separating what anger is direct at me and what I'm getting as just aftershocks of other reasons he's getting angry.  Last night I was feeling the aftershocks of his rage from a problem that had nothing to do with me.  I knew I didn't cause it, couldn't control.  I listened, validating his feelings of frustrations.  Asked him if there was something I could do to help.  He had to leave for his second job and by the time he came back, his head seemed to had cleared and he was calmer.  If the rage is not directed at me, but I'm just in the blast zone, it feels a little easier to apply the tools recommended.  I don't feel as attacked and like I'm the one to blame for anything.

[formflier]

Pretty much take it literally. 

If you don't like what you see... .It's YOUR responsibility to take your eyes somewhere else.

If you don't like what is going in your ears... .it's YOUR responsibility to take your ears somewhere else.

So, if you can give me a couple examples of what you "would like to get out of your face", I can try to make it more real.

FF

[Frankee]

Pretty much take it literally. 

If you don't like what you see... .It's YOUR responsibility to take your eyes somewhere else.

If you don't like what is going in your ears... .it's YOUR responsibility to take your ears somewhere else.

So, if you can give me a couple examples of what you "would like to get out of your face", I can try to make it more real.

FF

I get that I shouldn't had looked at the text messages from his coworkers gf, carrying on about how horrible her bf treats her.  How he is sensitive to her situation, but doesn't realize he's done same or worse things.  I know that he is capable of being sensitive, compassionate, lending an ear.  I feel this was "in my face" about how he's capable of these things, but chooses to not apply them towards me majority of the time.

I'm not sure how to take my ears somewhere else.  It seems that falls under not taking the attacks personal.  He accuses me of cheating.  Makes snide comments like...   I have a secret email... .  I work for a privately owned resort, my bike tire blew out and I was late getting home from work, so he asked if I was f**in someone up at work.  Saying how I have access to the rooms and a couple weeks ago he thought I was getting dressed up nice for somebody else.  Then some guy was talking to him at the gas station he works at and said something about not meeting his wife or kid.  My H said the guy was adamant that he hadn't met his wife and thought that wasn't coincidence. 

Then I find those text message from the woman lusting after him saying all those things.  Awhile back I found some nude photos he took and had emailed a couple craiglist ads women posted.  The things he's accused me of doing are things I have seen him do.  I understand the simple solution is not to snoop, right?  I would save myself a lot of headache and frustration if I just didn't know. 

There are things where he makes a mess and then calls us filthy slobs who can't keep a clean house.  I'm the woman, it's my job to clean.  IF I say "whatever" in response when he does it, he flips his lid and all of a sudden I'm a bi*** with an attitude.  If I get short with him because I'm stressed, ill, tired, etc. then I'm not working on my stuff when he's working on his.  Yet if he gets a sh*tty attitude, I'm supposed to apply these tools.

I understand this is all part of having a loved one with BPD, it just feels so damn unfair sometimes.  I get tired or being the "healthy" one, the one who can analyze and read between the lines.  I get stressed, I get hurt, I feel lonely, I get tired, I want to get a little crazy sometimes, I want to just walk out of the house when I get angry, I want to just drop my guard and act crazy silly stupid. 

[formflier]

First of all... .it is unfair... .it is unequal... no need to use "seems".


I've got some comments below... please don't take my succinctness as an attack.  It's very helpful to view boundaries as literally as possible... .to help them make sense.

  I feel this was "in my face" about how he's capable of these things, but chooses to not apply them towards me majority of the time.

This is on you.  Talk to the person that decided to put those messages in your face (hint... mirror).  He put those messages in his private phone, instead of forwarding them to you.  That means... .most likely... .that the content of those messages is more about him... .than any attempt to "get a reaction from you".

Thoughts?

I'm not sure how to take my ears somewhere else.  

Umm... .again... literal.    Ears connected to body... .body connected to feet... .feet go to another room... .ears tend to follow.

     

Questions?

So... .from a boundaries point of view.  "Blah blah blah... .you have rooms at work... .you thonged a guy and did the nasty with him like an Olympic gymnast... ."

That is a shocking thing to say... and to hear.

So... express shock (be authentic)

"Oh my goodness babe... .I'm speechless... .I have no words... "

Soften a bit... perhaps touch his arm gently... .":)o you need reassurance of my commitment to you?" (use variations of commitment, feelings... etc etc... .best to stay away from word "love"... likely too invalidating)

Now... .you have "leaned in" to him, showing how important he is to you.

Should he continue an attack... .firmly say you won't be part of such hurtful talk and walk away.

Perhaps

"I won't be part of such talk.  I'll be back in 10 minutes."  (gone)

wash... .rinse... repeat... .

The second time around skip the shock and concern... .see if he is ready to continue a reasonable conversation... don't bring up the past...

FF

[Frankee]

Those are good ideas.  I need to repeat them over and over in my head.  A lot of the feedback I get it really helpful, just sometimes go a little blank when the situation arises.  If I drill it into my head, I should be able to remember it.

Yesterday he caught me fibbing.  I knew the banks were open.  I worked for a mortgage company and remember they are open.   He asked if I checked to see.   I made the mistake  of saying I did.  He heard it in my voice that I wasn't sure.  So he got the death grip on that and is now shaking it like a rabid animal (hypothetically).  Now of course I am the absolute scum of the earth who can't stop lying to save my life.  On top of that, I forgot to mention we needed bread till late last night.   That of course turned into a whole big ordeal about how I always wait to the last minute for everything.  Set him off on a rage.   So last night and the lie, he's been doing nothing but screaming about how I mess everything up on purpose, can't do anything right,  etc etc.   Spouting same old angry BS.

I was able to distract myself when putting away groceries, making the kids food, cleaning up.   I didn't get upset or yell.  He asked a question, I answered plain and simple.  He accused me of lying, I didn't acknowledge it.  I knew nothing I could say would change he believed that.  When I tell him something he doesn't understand about credit cards, banks, or bills... I'm automatically lying.  Carrying on that he's going to act this way (screaming) until I stop lying.  I had apologized sincerely before, but he refuses to accept it.

I know that the things I've lied about or messed up, isn't the whole reason he's acting this way.  There is a lot of other factors.   I'm just the excuse and a target for him to TRY to blame me.

I didn't proof read this so it may seem all jumbled.