Conflicted about my own therapy

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

So, something that has come up in my own therapy the past couple of session is the fact that I feel bad about going to therapy.  I wanted to write out my thoughts to try and get some order to them, and thought I'd post here for a little bit of a sanity check.

I don't think there is anything wrong with therapy.  I understand and actively embrace the benefits... .for others.   If not for myself, then why make myself go?

I know I need it.  Especially right now.  I know I need the objective, professional perspective and advice.  No intellectual arguments there, so I go.

I know it's good for me.  Why don't I look at it the same way as I look at exercise?  Exercise is good for me physically, with the added benefit of helping manage stress.

Exercise is uncomfortable, and can even get a little painful (burn in the muscles, hard to breathe).   It can be really hard work.  Therapy doesn't "hurt" in the same way or require the same kind of effort.

Therapy is more like a massage.  Even when a massage gets painful while working out knots in the muscles, I understand the benefits and it makes me feel better almost immediately.  I would get massages at least a few times a year, but they cost too much and feel like an indulgence.   I enjoy them, but I still feel reluctant while climbing on the table.

Therapy makes me feel better.  Even if I don't like some of the things I hear, I like the emotional support, validation, and reassurance.    I know I deserve to feel better.  I don't feel like I deserve it.   Do I feel like I didn't earn it?  Why would I feel like I should have to earn it?

I don't like the confirmation that I am mentally farther along the path of separation than I'm ready to accept.  That whole subject is a big scary mess looming on the horizon.

I really don't like hearing that I'm suffering from anxiety, even if I was already managing to mitigate it on my own to some degree.

I feel like my therapist cares about me.  Even with a loving family, supportive friendships, and (at least on some level) a caring spouse, this is different.  It's the first time I find myself wondering why someone else cares about me and feeling like they shouldn't.  It's the first time I feel uncomfortable hearing that someone else is upset for me, angry for me, concerned for me, worried about me.

I have never had issues with self-doubt, fear, or anxiety before.  I have always been so self sufficient, and never needed this kind of support, validation, and reassurance.  I don't like needing these things.  I don't want to need them.

I know it's human and normal to need these things, and especially so in times of extreme stress or emotional upheaval.  Why do I have trouble accepting that?  Why do I think I shouldn't need them?  And why am I scared they're going to disappear?

It can be really hard for me to do things for myself.  Am I making myself go to therapy, or am I allowing myself?  Either way, I need to figure out how to address these feelings.

[mama-wolf]

So, something that has come up in my own therapy the past couple of session is the fact that I feel bad about going to therapy.  I wanted to write out my thoughts to try and get some order to them, and thought I'd post here for a little bit of a sanity check.

I don't think there is anything wrong with therapy.  I understand and actively embrace the benefits... .for others.   If not for myself, then why make myself go?

I know I need it.  Especially right now.  I know I need the objective, professional perspective and advice.  No intellectual arguments there, so I go.

I know it's good for me.  Why don't I look at it the same way as I look at exercise?  Exercise is good for me physically, with the added benefit of helping manage stress.

Exercise is uncomfortable, and can even get a little painful (burn in the muscles, hard to breathe).   It can be really hard work.  Therapy doesn't "hurt" in the same way or require the same kind of effort.

Therapy is more like a massage.  Even when a massage gets painful while working out knots in the muscles, I understand the benefits and it makes me feel better almost immediately.  I would get massages at least a few times a year, but they cost too much and feel like an indulgence.   I enjoy them, but I still feel reluctant while climbing on the table.

Therapy makes me feel better.  Even if I don't like some of the things I hear, I like the emotional support, validation, and reassurance.    I know I deserve to feel better.  I don't feel like I deserve it.   Do I feel like I didn't earn it?  Why would I feel like I should have to earn it?

I don't like the confirmation that I am mentally farther along the path of separation than I'm ready to accept.  That whole subject is a big scary mess looming on the horizon.

I really don't like hearing that I'm suffering from anxiety, even if I was already managing to mitigate it on my own to some degree.

I feel like my therapist cares about me.  Even with a loving family, supportive friendships, and (at least on some level) a caring spouse, this is different.  It's the first time I find myself wondering why someone else cares about me and feeling like they shouldn't.  It's the first time I feel uncomfortable hearing that someone else is upset for me, angry for me, concerned for me, worried about me.

I have never had issues with self-doubt, fear, or anxiety before.  I have always been so self sufficient, and never needed this kind of support, validation, and reassurance.  I don't like needing these things.  I don't want to need them.

I know it's human and normal to need these things, and especially so in times of extreme stress or emotional upheaval.  Why do I have trouble accepting that?  Why do I think I shouldn't need them?  And why am I scared they're going to disappear?

It can be really hard for me to do things for myself.  Am I making myself go to therapy, or am I allowing myself?  Either way, I need to figure out how to address these feelings.

[formflier]

I used to think that I was solid and others needed therapy... .or that I needed therapy to learn how to deal with broken people.

Understanding that you have hurts to heal... .can be difficult  At least it was for me.

I've been doing the BPD roller coaster since 2009.  Some MC in there... .some individual for me as I started to understand I had PTSD.  Lots of books.  I personally had several victories in T... that were really apart from my marriage.

Anyway... .couple years ago we moved closer to my wife's FOO... .and the BPD thing went nuclear again.  I called a previous therapist PhD level guy... .really experienced.  He talked me through finding a new person.  Again, PhD level... .over 30 year experience. 

In a stroke of luck... .well... I believe it is God's hand, this P has personal experience with a paranoid husband, they later divorced and he died a while after at an early age.  So... she gets what it is like for someone (my wife) to believe that I have a harem or am married to other women.

So... .I've been going weekly for almost 2 years now.  March will be 2 years.  Wow... .  Some weeks we have extra session or phone session.  When things "hit the fan" at home, which is rare now... .I'll touch base to validate my course of action.

Anyway... she reminds me of my Grandma.  Had this way of giving you milk and cookies, have a conversation about life (those hard truth conversations) yet you feel it's going to be OK... .even though it is hard.

Anyway... .I see this continuing... .for a long time.  Not because I'm broken, but because this works for stability in my life... that extends into my kids and wife.  Even though this is not the life I would have chosen.

As life happens, we'll focus on learning points... sometimes relearn things... . 

I am a much better parent because of all the roll play we have done for when children are emotional... .and even sometimes when they are not.

Anyway... .I'm obviously on the conflicted board, yet my story seems somewhat "successful".  I suspect I've reached pretty much the top of marriage improvement, without my wife cooperating.  There are still enough wacky things that happen in my r/s... .and it's entirely possible that a boundary is crossed or my wife will not relent on an issue and we end up in divorce proceedings.

I certainly hope that doesn't happen... .but I am prepared (as best I can).  Having an involved P would likely be invaluable.

There have been several times when we decided in therapy that either my wife backs down or we separate.  I was steadfast and my wife backed down... .or ran out of energy for the flames (conflict)... .either way.

So... long winded story to say that I would encourage you to discuss your feelings and show this post to your T. 

Assuming you like your T and are making progress and feel this is good situation, I would encourage you to embrace this process.

I would encourage you to have and understand two very different opinions.

1.  Where does you T think "you need to go" and why.
2.  Where do you think you need to go and why.

Understanding that different... .reflecting on that difference... .is where you will likely make progress. (which means growth and maturity)

FF

[RolandOfEld]

I don't like the confirmation that I am mentally farther along the path of separation than I'm ready to accept.  That whole subject is a big scary mess looming on the horizon.

Hi mama-wolf and I'm right there with you. I'm working with my T now to prepare for a proposed separation from my wife and nothing scares me more than imagining the fallout. For this part I'm working out a contingency plan to address all possibilities and it's giving me a little more ease of mind.

I know it's human and normal to need these things, and especially so in times of extreme stress or emotional upheaval.  Why do I have trouble accepting that?  Why do I think I shouldn't need them?  And why am I scared they're going to disappear?

Don't know if it's presumptuous of me to suggest this, but perhaps you should bring up your feelings about therapy to your T if you haven't already. It sounds like you have a strong feeling of not deserving the care of others, something that I can deeply relate to. My wife always uses my past therapy visits as a weapon against me during arguments, saying I was just running away and crying to someone else. I think I internalized this quite a bit and it's also why I conduct my T secretly now. You will need the support of others to face what's coming, and if you don't feel that you should have it it may make the situation harder for you.

Hang in there mama-wolf and remember that everyone here has your back!

All the best,
ROE

[mama-wolf]

Hi ROE--thanks for chiming in!  I want you to know I have been following your journey in the action plan thread and think about you often.  You are pulling yourself and your kids through such an extreme situation and I really admire your strength and approach.  My situation is not quite as dire, but I have been getting value out of the different contingencies, thoughts, and actions you have described, and the advice being shared with you.  The way folks have pulled together on this board to offer support is really encouraging to see.  Thank you for sharing so openly with us!

Don't know if it's presumptuous of me to suggest this, but perhaps you should bring up your feelings about therapy to your T if you haven't already. It sounds like you have a strong feeling of not deserving the care of others, something that I can deeply relate to. 

Not presumptuous at all.  My T is aware that I feel going to therapy is an indulgence (I actually used the word and immediately started crying), and she has gently brought it up in the context of reminding me to hold on to things (like therapy) that will help me stay grounded as I work my way through all of this.  But yes, I do think that you and FF are correct that I should share the thoughts I posted at the beginning of this thread with her.  DaddyBear77 also shared an insight on my co-parenting thread that I need to incorporate... .the fact that years of interjections and criticisms have likely worn down my sense of self esteem (and self confidence).

And FF, thank you for sharing your own history and perspective on therapy.  Your two questions about exploring where I need to go and why really got me thinking.  I will definitely bring this up with my T as well.

mw

[RolandOfEld]

Thanks, mw and glad the thread is helpful to you! The other members have helped me to understand it can be psychologically helpful just to have a plan even if you don't plan to follow through on it. When you think something scary through it's not as scary or unknown. This is something else you could potentially work on with your T.

All the best,
ROE

[mama-wolf]

A bit more introspection that I felt like throwing out there for any who might have some insights... .

I was driven to therapy for intellectual reasons.  It may have been delayed, but my sense of danger--to my own and my kids' mental and emotional well-being--drove me to seek clarity.  I was focused more the emotional side for my kids, and more on the mental side for myself.  I was not prepared for the emotional aspects for myself.

Physical needs are easy and make sense.  Need air to breathe.  Need food and water.  Need shelter and warmth.

Mental needs are also understandable.  Need to learn.  Need to understand.  Need to be challenged intellectually.  Need to problem-solve and make things better.

Emotional needs are much more difficult for me.  Especially if they depend on anyone else but me.  I make myself happy.  I soothe my fears and calm my nerves.  At least, I have been able to in the past.

I don't like to need anything (emotionally).  I don't need comfort from others.  Well, I haven't needed it before.  The comfort I receive now from a therapist... .it's hard to know what to do with it.  I don't want to need it.  So I don't want it.  But I also don't want it to go away.

When it comes to others, I don't want to be needed... .not in the sense that someone else desperately needs me to be happy and whole.  That's what I sense from uBPDw.  Like her entire ability to be happy and her sense of self is dependent on me and our marriage.  I don't think it's healthy, and I don't want to contribute to that.  I never wanted that, and yet by supporting and caring for her over the years I have enabled her behaviors and these needs.

I don't need someone else to be whole myself.  I don't even like needing someone else for comfort.  Setting aside the question of vulnerability (I don't "do" vulnerable--and I'm sure I'll be working on that with my T), I don't think depending on someone else for my happiness and fulfillment is healthy.  Yet many aspects of my relationship with uBPDw would qualify it as a codependent one.

I naturally like to help others... .but I have a strong sense of self and that doesn't jive with codependency.  But as I look back over the years of my relationship with uBPDw, I think my sense of self has gradually eroded.  I like to think it's still somewhat strong, but behaviors like neglecting my own needs, setting aside my own interests, gradually increasing isolation from family and friends, and subordinating my values and opinions to my partner's more and more... .that's a path I didn't know I was on until recently.

Through working on better boundaries, educating myself about uBPDw's behaviors. and modifying my own behaviors, I know I can get off that path.  I worry about what damage has been done already, though... .and what the new path will bring.

[formflier]

  I was not prepared for the emotional aspects for myself.

 

Be very upfront with your T about this.  I see this is similar to my journey.

I found it easier to go to T to understand "how" to do emotions (with others ) how to show empathy, be supportive, validate... etc etc that I did to process my own emotions (especially strong ones).

Granted... .I had some very very strong feelings (and still do) about some things. 

Now, I'm deliberate about pausing to be with myself and my emotions... the memories.

Again... .make sure you "unpack" your sentence above with your T... .

FF

[Daffodill]

I've had a hard time finding a therapist who can understand what I'm dealing with and truly help me with my issues, the things that brought me to relationships with BPDs and the issues I struggle with after the relationships.  Their answer is always just get out and drop the guy, easier said that done, and doesn't begin to address my co-dependency or emotional issues.  I found a place in the area that deals especially with BPD and other personality disorders that has group therapy programs for family members of pwBPD so I'm going to try that. 

Any tips on finding therapists that know how to help family members/significant others?  I'm in the process of extricating myself from my 2nd BPD relationship and it's not easy.  I've seen a PhD Pyschologist and a LCP counselor so far, but the YouTube videos I've seen on BPD and Codependency have helped more than anything.

[mama-wolf]

I actually found my therapist before I even learned of the possibility of BPD being a factor with my pwBPD.  My main goal was to find someone who was openly LGBT friendly.  As for the rest, I think I kind of lucked out in that regard... .not that she's all that experienced in BPD or its effects on family members, but so far I have found our dynamic to work out very well.  The dynamic and her experience are not the issue for me... .it's how I feel about the process in general that I'm trying to work through.

I'd have to look to other more experienced members on the board to make recommendations about best approach to finding the right therapist... .

mw

[zachira]

Thanks for sharing about your therapy. I have been going to therapy for years and have found it very difficult to face all the pain of growing up as the scapegoat in a borderline family. For many years, I was just oblivious to everything, and I guess it was too painful to face. Now, I am at the point that after years of therapy, I am much happier in some ways though still facing a lot of pain because as I have become more self confident, certain members of my family have started to treat me worse than ever. It seems they really resent my feeling better about myself. Now, I am doing my best to limit my contact with the family, and create more positive relationships and activities.
I admire your courage! Keep us posted and let us know how we can help!

[mama-wolf]

Interesting session with my T yesterday, which brought a few things to light for me... .

She observed that maybe it's so difficult for me to deal with my emotions right now because I have never trully had to deal with them before (particularly negative ones).  Emotional detachment would definitely be a term used to characterize me from pretty early on in my life... .usually someone might say "reserved" or maybe "laid back," but that's just how it presents on the outside.  I'm not completely detached... .I do have emotional moments, but I generally operate pretty far on the calmer, practical, intellectual side of the spectrum.

So my T said that I was probably always able to deal with things happening in my life on an intellectual level, and that emotional detachment helped keep me insulated from the rest.  But now that my marriage is falling apart (a strongly and unequivocally emotional event), I can't help but have to deal with the emotions... .and it's only natural that this causes me anxiety.

She was of course very reassuring to me about needing emotional support right now, and we took a little time to explore why I might feel bad about it.  She asked me if it made me feel too much like uBPDw (who needs and takes all the support she can get).  I hadn't ever thought about it like that.  It is true that I don't want to be anything like her in that regard, but my feelings about emotions and emotional support come from way before meeting uBPDw.  So what is it then?

I was able to acknowledge that I don't want to have it help me feel better, for me to become dependent on that, and then for it to go away.  That finally got me choked up... .fear of loss and fear that depending on something will then leave me unable to handle things on my own as I have always done before.  For the moment we'll set aside questions of how well I actually handled them previously.

And why would I be so fearful that the support will go away?  A lot of my current support comes from my mom at the moment, and there will always be an undercurrent of fear about when I will eventually lose her.  An aggressive lymphoma scare from a few years ago didn't help on that front.  But that fear of losing her was only brought to the surface relatively recently.

Then it hit me on the commute home yesterday... .I think I came about as close to emotionally vulnerable as I have ever been with my first girlfriend, who ended up cheating on me and then broke up with me.  It was in my last year of undergrad, my first "real" and adult romantic relationship, which was also when I came out to my family.  And she was my only other serious romantic relationship before I met and started dating uBPDw.

So, however I may be pre-wired, and whatever my childhood may have brought with it, I take it this experience had its own influence.  I haven't thought about it in a very long time, and I would have thought that I’d be over something from almost 20 years ago, but I know it’s not that simple.

And none of this even has anything to do with uBPDw and her own issues, or dealing with how those issues impact me, our children, and our relationship.  This is all just me trying to figure myself out.  Seems I have quite a bit more work to do than I thought... .