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Author Topic: Apology Not Good Enough  (Read 1608 times)
BasementDweller
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 446



« Reply #60 on: January 25, 2018, 04:47:49 AM »

Formflier: I'm speechless. I'm sure your P was too!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fTtgMqUNm4

Cat:

"When people have thoughts that don't fit the paradigm of "I only have eyes for my beloved", then what happens? If, they believe, as do you (possibly?--I don't want to speak as to your beliefs) that they are "selfish"... .

No, not at all. I don't believe anything of the sort. If someone doesn't have eyes only for one person, it is what it is - it's not selfish or unselfish, it just... .is. I'd venture to suggest that someone who is in a relationship and is pretending to be something they are not (or to feel something they don't feel) just to string the other person along for their own gain... .might be selfish. This could entail any number of behaviors, including, but not limited to various forms of infidelity.

I definitely don't have a paradigm of any kind that I could apply to anybody outside my own 1 meter radius, and the four walls of my own home. With nearly 8 billion unique souls out there, all with different preferences, needs, wants, requirements, and expectations, I doubt there could be a paradigm that would encompass even a fraction of them. (And I sure as hell don't want the job of having to define it!)  Smiling (click to insert in post)

"Thoughts of selfishness add further to a "shame-load" that so many of us carry. So perhaps they try "not to think" about some attractive person they've seen." 

Is it like the "shame-cone?" i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/05/14/16/28AA276200000578-3081768-image-m-24_1431617919111.jpg   Smiling (click to insert in post)

But seriously, people can and will think of whatever they want to, and nobody else can make them feel shame about it. Shame isn't something you can draw up in a syringe and inject into someone else's brain. It comes from within the individual and it's up to them to figure out why, and take measures, whatever they may be, to address it.

"I like to allow myself the mental freedom to think anything. I have no fear that I will act out something that is not in keeping with my principles."

As it should be. Sounds like you're in the clear. 

"I will say that people have fascination for behavior they will never engage in. That's why they watch movies with disturbing themes. (I'm very selective about what movies I watch and I have no interest in watching violence because I don't want that imagery in my head.)"

And I suspect just as many people have anything ranging from ambivalence to revulsion of behavior they will never engage in. They know their comfort zone, it's self-perfected, and they are extremely happy in it. Probably many people are also totally ok with violent themes in movies, even desensitized to them -  but recoil in horror at the cheesy romance themes, or gratuitous sex scenes - even becoming insensed when that foolish nonsense interrupts the explosions, car crashes, and decapitations they hold so dear. 

Re: Relationships... .it's up to each and every individual to determine what they want out of a relationship, what they will settle for, and what they can't or won't tolerate. If both parties are pretty well on the same page, they can likely make a go of it.

Generalizations, now:

Relationships are complex, not only the dynamic of the twosome, but each of the individuals themselves. They each bring certain things to the table, and then try to see how they can combine those things to create a co-existence. This process is unique for every couple.

How you relate to the world around you and how you relate to your own partner and those close to you depends on a number of things. We have, for starters, extroverts, ambiverts, and introverts. We have people who are superficial (I don't mean "shallow" - I mean they glean the most information from visual assessment) visceral (the feelers and intuits) and cerebral (the logical, analytical sort, who are often also very intuitive.) Most people probably posess at least a touch of everything at any given time, but most people fall more solidly into one camp or another. Some fall rather heavily into one camp.

Depending on how introverted or extroverted you are, or whether you tend to be more of a thinker, a feeler, or an observer is going to play a large role in how much you want to "see and be seen" and how much interest you have in other members of the human race. Some members of the population really do get energized by human interaction, and really enjoy connecting with others, and have a genuine curiosity about others. They love "people watching", socializing, chatting, flirting, etc. They might have a larger social circle, enjoy dating, even if not interested in "settling down" and can get along with mostly everyone. They like parties and social gatherings. They can be quite aroused by another person's external presentation or "vibe" - because they do like connecting with people, and I guess they do so first with their eyes.

Other folks are extremely inwardly focused, and they are energized by quiet introspection, aloneness, and are far more entertained and stimulated by solitude, privacy, and the ruminations within their own heads. They are actually drained by human interaction. The more they are around other people, the more of their lifeforce they lose. The have to withdraw and tune the world out in order to feel whole again, even after something as simple as a quiet dinner with a few colleagues, which can be quite an uncomfortable chore for them. They can be socially interactive enough to hold a job, or be a member of "polite society" but it's a burden and an impostion to have to do it. They have very little interest in other members of the human race, and very little care or notice of how other peoples' cells are arranged on the surface. When their heart pounds at the sight of a stranger it's because they are panicked that that person might look at them, approach them, or try to talk to them. They do however pick up on a clever mind, when they get to encounter one, and appreciate that, even if they say very little. This doesn't mean they are mean, unkind, anti-social, or even lonely. They are simply far more interested in solitude, and have very little need for external energy sources or the company of others. They are the opposite of unhappy. They are usually quite content and at peace with themselves because they require so little. They have very small social circles, but bond very deeply with maybe one or two people, tops. Most people lie somewhere in the middle of these two extremes, but closer to to one side or the other. And there is actually a good number of people who fall on the extreme far end of the spectrum, on the outer edge of one side or the other.

A really simple overview would suggest that a relationship between two very visual and social extroverts would start off quite physical, have an intense honeymoon period, and later fade to something a little less intense and a little more comfortable. While they might be quite compatible, they may also still require interactions with a number of others to feel really stimulated. They may be curious about other people, and they perhaps get a bit of a thrill, a boost, or a little "recharge" from exchanges with others (visual or otherwise). In general, they are drawn to people, and the more the merrier. People like this might naturally have interests (even if only visually, or superficially) in strangers, or people outside their relationship. Maybe both parties are the same, and that works for them. That's how they interact with the world. With curiosity and interest.

A relationship between two very cerebral introverts may look entirely different. It will likely happen "by accident" based on the fact that some intellectual bond occurs somehow, and that unlike most other people, with whom the thought of accidental eye contact, forced social interation, small talk, etc is... .extremely uncomfortable and avoided at all costs... .this other person... .they can tolerate and actually don't mind interacting with. They might even feel pretty comfortable. They are rarely, if ever, attracted to other people, period, but on the rare occasion when it does happen... .there really are no words to describe it. There is no "initial honeymoon phase" because these people are very guarded, slow to warm, and extremely cautious by nature. If romance is to occur, it is a slow smolder that builds very gradually, suddenly gets ignited, and once that happens, the intense inferno of passion unleashed between these two will melt steel. The honeymoon phase comes later, and the longer they are together, the more intensely focused on each other they become, the deeper and more intense their bond grows, and the more they tune out the rest of the world, because this is their person.

Considering this personality type, and how uninterested they generally are in others, when they find a kindred spirit, the connection is transcendental, and the rest of the world becomes irrelevant. The honeymoon phase doesn't plateau then fade... .it's on a perpetual, eternal, steady upward trajectory for the duration of their time together. The world at large becomes more and more of an intrusion, and less and less like something they care to observe. No, this is not "enmeshing or entrenching" - it's perfect chemistry, with a rather unbreakable bond between two people who feel at odds with the rest of the wold, but at home with each other.

You don't see too many couples like this, because... .well... .you don't see them. They leave the house when they have to, interact with the world as minimally as possible, doing the bare minimum to stay functional in society, and then return home to the comfort of their person and usually spend nights and weekends together at home, staring in each other's eyes over a glass of wine, (of which they can tell you every biological detail of the grapes it was crafted from, including the exact pH of the soil they were grown in, just by smelling it) screwing like jackrabbits, and having 14 hour conversations about string theory and existentialism - and it never gets old. They normally won't even bother to turn on (or own) a TV because the sight or sound of other people is invasive and annoying. They're the couple that turns down 99% of all social invitiations, and the one time they do accept, they show up late, sit in the corner, talk quietly to each other, awkwardly struggle to make small talk with a few people if forced, then leave quickly.

Picture the general crown on public transit. You have those that dress a little more to impress, stand in the middle of the train, look ahead and scan the crown with curiosity, make eye contact with people they find interesting, and really "own their space". They appear confident. Then you have the ones that sit in a seat, maybe by the window, maybe by the aisle. They dress casually, they glance up from their newspaper occasionally to look at other people boarding or standing on the platform. They appear relaxed. Then you have the ones that are dressed in all black or monochrome. They have massive noise cancelling headphones on, sunglasses, and no descernible facial expression. Their body language is extremely subtle, they take up as little space as possible, they sit by the wall, and face away from the crowd and not once do they glance up from their book, phone, or newspaper. They appear oblivious to the fact that they are on planet earth, and that there are other lifeforms there too. (They are actually painfully aware of it on some level, but have to tune it out.)

The first person is observing everything around them and maybe hoping to be observed a little as well. The second person is aware of everything going on around them and is taking it all in stride. The third person is only aware of the buzz of the hornet's nest inside their own head.

You can probably guess who is who. ;-)

As you can imagine, depending on where you fall on the spectrum, (AND where your partner falls) your level of fulfillment in any given relationship, and your level of interest in other people outside of it can vary wildly. It's likely two people who fall on vastly different ends of the spectrum might have some challenges. They may have a tremendous amount of difficulty understanding each other. They might also balance each other in some ways. Again, it depends on what you want, what they give, if it's enough, and in line with your own standards. This will vary for everyone and there is no "right answer."





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"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." - Eleanor Roosevelt
crunchtime

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« Reply #61 on: January 25, 2018, 05:03:30 AM »

Bullet: comment directed to __ (click to insert in post) Cat

"Another thing is that in the midst of the honeymoon phase of attraction, most people would probably agree that they only have eyes for their beloved. After that phase passes, and sadly it does for nearly everyone--or so I've heard--yes, this is a generalization--I wonder how many people are subject once again to the biological sense of seeing an attractive person and having one's heart skip a beat."


There's a book called "Sex at Dawn" that's pretty interesting. There's another I have yet to check out but seems equally interesting called "The Red Queen: Sex and the Evolution of Human Nature." The Honeymoon phase is pretty aptly summarized, at least in the book I read. It does a good job of pointing out how love, security and intimacy can increase simultaneously with a *decrease* in sexual excitement, and that this seems to be the natural course of sexual relationships.

I will say from experience that the "heart skipping a beat" feeling was the main driver behind the several one night stands I had. It was the *novelty* and *excitement* of them each time. Even anxiety. I would absolutely be lying if I said I didn't miss that. It's one of the greatest feelings I've had in my life -- every single time I had it. I think back on each different girl I was with and each time it felt like a completely new and exciting experience, and they were all amazing. And somehow I would feel invigorated for days afterwards, like a really long lasting positive buzz.

Bullet: comment directed to __ (click to insert in post) Basement

Women approaching men for sex... .it's like a knife in my heart remembering how stupid I was in high school. It turns out it IS true! But hasn't been true for me since high school.

Several girls wanted to get with me but I had so little confidence and so much anxiety I just ignored them. I thought it couldn't be true, like who could want to be with me? Ignored. And then one girl flat out told me she and her friend were talking about wanting to get with me in a threesome to take my virginity. And I was actually really attracted to both of them, like I'd fantasized about them before.

I just kind of derped out of the situation because I got scared. Why? Who knows. I don't know what factory my brain came from, but I am going to have a hell of a talk with the quality assurance manager

Moving on... .

So many good comments. This all has definitely been helping a lot. I also am feeling less crazy having all this feedback and second opinions. I've been feeling more able to loosen up and enjoy my relationship as it is, too. These are tough questions, and the situation is very complex... .what relationship isn't, right? I mean if you dig deep enough into people's most secret feelings and thoughts, suppressions, and all that.

But it doesn't always have to play out so complicated. Taking it a day at a time. I'm also gaining experience, too. I've been feeling less fatalistic about all this lately. Everything isn't going to fall into place at once. It's gonna take some time, and more introspection, more action.

Honesty is tough with or without pwBPD. I'm just glad I mentioned the threesome thing to her, because feeling deceitful and dishonest has been eroding me from the inside out. That, IMO, is the MAJOR take-home lesson in this thread.

Having her aware that I am having fantasies about and/or involving other women makes me feel a whole lot better. It was so liberating to tell her that. I would rather her think I'm some kind of sex freak and see me for who I am than think she loves me when she has no idea at all who I am.

It actually reminds me of the time her best friend took kind of a pot shot at me. We were all talking about movies, and then she mentioned one and said something like, "Yeah, you'd probably love it. Because you're a pervert, and all." I just smiled and said "Yep, that's me Smiling (click to insert in post)" Then I turned around and looked at my girlfriend and just shrugged my shoulders.

Felt like such a huge weight lifted off of me. It also made it clear to me that even though I do still use porn, it isn't what I want. It's a habit, and an escapist tactic. I want real sex. That's always what I wanted. Porn is a substitute for living a sexually fulfilling life, whatever that really means to me. And obviously I've been avoiding answering that question for myself, and just burying my head in the sand.

I'm an expert at that, too, which isn't good. As the late Warren Zevon said on Letterman when he was dying of Mesothelioma... ."I think I might've made a tactical error in not going to a doctor for 20 years." I've got to make an appointment soon myself for some health issues I've been having that I have swept under the rug for about 10 years. To be fair I was molested by a doctor when I was a kid so I have a natural hatred and fear of anything remotely associated with doctors, but it still speaks to the truth that I bury my head in the sand a LOT.

The world's out there waiting to be taken hold of. Kind of exciting, actually. I was super surprised when my girlfriend said she felt RELIEVED when I told her I had masturbated to a fantasy of having sex with her and another girl. I had just had it at that point and figured nothing I said would make any difference anyway, so f*** it. I wasn't expecting to hear that as a response. Certainly not.

More take-home messages: shame and secrecy are not good.

There's a Zen story about "loving openly":

A student has a crush on a girl in his class. He leaves a letter for her, insisting on a private meeting. She doesn't leave any reply.

The next day, after the end of a lecture, she gets up in front of the whole classroom. Addressing the one who had written the letter, she said, "If you really love me so much, then come up here and embrace me right now."


Bullet: comment directed to __ (click to insert in post) formflier

The attempted murder with a vibrator. Definitely a first. Hilarious in hindsight, but then again so was my friend's run in with a girl he had a one night stand with pointing a loaded .357 Magnum at his chest while telling him, "So I've heard you've been sleeping with another woman"... .

Okay... .well, it sounded funnier in my head before I wrote it out. x_x

For the record, one girl I hooked up with soon after began telling me she was having uncontrollable homicidal fantasies and was a big fan of cutlery. We never hooked up again. I kinda just faded away from that one. Now that I think about it, hooking up with a girl I met at the psychiatric ward probably wasn't one of the smartest things I've done in my life.

That was years ago, and after a good long while of fooling around pretty intensely, I was just about to put my banana in her fruit basket.

That's when my dad knocked on the door. Pounded on the door. Over and over. "Hey dad, I'm busy right now. Can this wait?" Yelling my name. He knew what was up. He had seen me go into my room with her. I don't know what his deal was. I was pretty pissed at the time, like, come on man. What the hell. That was the end of that. I don't think I'll ever fully recover from those blue balls. Post traumatic cock blocking syndrome. I was a virgin at the time too, to add insult to injury. I had just torn the condom wrapper and hadn't even had a chance to get the condom out before my dad started knock knock knocking on heaven's door.

But I might actually owe my life to him. Thanks dad. I kinda wish I framed the condom. Me and her actually joked about that after. It was funny until she started talking about killing people and stuff out of nowhere. I asked what happened that she was so angry about. She said she wasn't angry at all. That's when I decided I'd take the blue balls and cut my losses.
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BasementDweller
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 446



« Reply #62 on: January 25, 2018, 05:18:31 AM »

Crunchtime, if you somehow fail to become the world's most prolific pud-pulling, porn-watching, cock-block defeating Casanova, there is at least SURELY a brilliant career for you as a writer in the cards.  Thought
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Meili
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« Reply #63 on: January 25, 2018, 10:48:38 AM »

Staff only

This thread has been locked due to length. Please feel free to continue the discussion in a new thread.
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