What About My Other Relationships?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Hello Everyone. I haven't visited these boards since December. Link to first thread if you're interested in getting caught up on my story: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=317450.msg12916928#msg12916928

Things seemed to calm down somewhat, with occasional explosions of emotional drama from my uBPDw, but I felt pretty empowered after reading "Stop Caretaking the Borerline or Narcissist: How to end the Drama and Get on With Life" by Margalis Fjelstad. I got that book after seeing it mentioned in another thread and I found it highly illuminating. Just the stark no-punches-pulled dose of reality that I needed to recognize my caretaking tendencies and work on strategies for ending the cycle of drama. More on this in a second. Quick story time... .

I had an experience with the wife this weekend that just epitomizes why I'm tired of my relationship. I was tired on Saturday and wanted to go to bed at around 10:30. We had been up until 1am the previous night for our date night. But my body always wakes me up at the same time every morning so I can't sleep in. Thus, I was wanting to go to bed so that I could be rested and work toward being ready for work on Monday. My uBPDw had been asleep most of the day as she suffers from anxiety and insomnia and doesn't sleep at night and she had only woken up at about 4 or 5pm. We spent the evening together, watched a favorite show on Netflix, had dinner, etc. And when 10:30 came around I told her that I was tired and going to bed. And she threw a fit about it, trying to guilt me into staying up with her, etc. (she's done this many times before), because she feels lonely and abandoned. In the past I've allowed myself to be goaded into staying up or getting in a fight about it. This time, I simply gave my reasons of being tired and wanting to be ready for work on Monday, and went to bed. And I haven't felt guilty about making choices like this since I read that book.

But I've been asking myself since that experience if I really want to deal with this for the rest of my life. Saying that I'm tired should be enough. It shouldn't be a mentally and emotionally draining experience when I tell my wife I'm just going to bed for the evening--you can imagine what types of conversations we have over things that aren't half as innocent as just going to bed.

Anyway, I started skimming that book again after this experience and came across the following passage:

"Start questioning your way of thinking about your relationship with the [BPD]. If relationships at work and with your friends are pleasant, effective, and enjoyable, why is the relationship with the BP/NP so disturbing and painful? There must be a reason for the difference. The difference is that you think and act differently at work than you do around the BP/NP."

That does put things into perspective for me because I have never had a relationship more disturbing or painful than the relationship with my uBPDwife. I've never had a similar relationship with anyone else before. And my relationships now are suffering somewhat because of how much energy my marriage is taking.

And now, for those who have endured to the end of this post, we arrive at the question I am asking myself today:

What about my other relationships?

If my marriage is the worst relationship I've ever had--if I've been more depressed, more anxious, more angry, and felt more hopeless in this relationship than in any other previous relationship--and if I've never had close to the same types of problems with other people that I'm having with my wife in the way we talk, relate to each other, and get our emotional needs met--why am I still with her?

Has anyone else asked these questions? Where are you at in your relationship with the BPD in your life?

Thanks for your time,
LL

[LameLemer]

Hello Everyone. I haven't visited these boards since December. Link to first thread if you're interested in getting caught up on my story: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=317450.msg12916928#msg12916928

Things seemed to calm down somewhat, with occasional explosions of emotional drama from my uBPDw, but I felt pretty empowered after reading "Stop Caretaking the Borerline or Narcissist: How to end the Drama and Get on With Life" by Margalis Fjelstad. I got that book after seeing it mentioned in another thread and I found it highly illuminating. Just the stark no-punches-pulled dose of reality that I needed to recognize my caretaking tendencies and work on strategies for ending the cycle of drama. More on this in a second. Quick story time... .

I had an experience with the wife this weekend that just epitomizes why I'm tired of my relationship. I was tired on Saturday and wanted to go to bed at around 10:30. We had been up until 1am the previous night for our date night. But my body always wakes me up at the same time every morning so I can't sleep in. Thus, I was wanting to go to bed so that I could be rested and work toward being ready for work on Monday. My uBPDw had been asleep most of the day as she suffers from anxiety and insomnia and doesn't sleep at night and she had only woken up at about 4 or 5pm. We spent the evening together, watched a favorite show on Netflix, had dinner, etc. And when 10:30 came around I told her that I was tired and going to bed. And she threw a fit about it, trying to guilt me into staying up with her, etc. (she's done this many times before), because she feels lonely and abandoned. In the past I've allowed myself to be goaded into staying up or getting in a fight about it. This time, I simply gave my reasons of being tired and wanting to be ready for work on Monday, and went to bed. And I haven't felt guilty about making choices like this since I read that book.

But I've been asking myself since that experience if I really want to deal with this for the rest of my life. Saying that I'm tired should be enough. It shouldn't be a mentally and emotionally draining experience when I tell my wife I'm just going to bed for the evening--you can imagine what types of conversations we have over things that aren't half as innocent as just going to bed.

Anyway, I started skimming that book again after this experience and came across the following passage:

"Start questioning your way of thinking about your relationship with the [BPD]. If relationships at work and with your friends are pleasant, effective, and enjoyable, why is the relationship with the BP/NP so disturbing and painful? There must be a reason for the difference. The difference is that you think and act differently at work than you do around the BP/NP."

That does put things into perspective for me because I have never had a relationship more disturbing or painful than the relationship with my uBPDwife. I've never had a similar relationship with anyone else before. And my relationships now are suffering somewhat because of how much energy my marriage is taking.

And now, for those who have endured to the end of this post, we arrive at the question I am asking myself today:

What about my other relationships?

If my marriage is the worst relationship I've ever had--if I've been more depressed, more anxious, more angry, and felt more hopeless in this relationship than in any other previous relationship--and if I've never had close to the same types of problems with other people that I'm having with my wife in the way we talk, relate to each other, and get our emotional needs met--why am I still with her?

Has anyone else asked these questions? Where are you at in your relationship with the BPD in your life?

Thanks for your time,
LL

[Red5]

But I've been asking myself since that experience if I really want to deal with this for the rest of my life. Saying that I'm tired should be enough. It shouldn't be a mentally and emotionally draining experience when I tell my wife I'm just going to bed for the evening--you can imagine what types of conversations we have over things that aren't half as innocent as just going to bed.

And my relationships now are suffering somewhat because of how much energy my marriage is taking.

Has anyone else asked these questions? Where are you at in your relationship with the BPD in your life?

Hello LameLemer,

Yes, I know this well, “conversations”… “you can imagine what types of conversations we have over things that aren't half as innocent as just going to bed.”

… drama drama drama !

I also know that my other relationships, my own grown adult children, neighbors, and other fellow travelers as in professional friends in the work place, can very well tell when things are in a “down cycle” at home, they pick up on it via my mannerisms.

I have heard, and read that you will betray yourself to others when things are out of sorts at home.

Certainly, and yes!

I hear all the time, “I don’t know how you do it man”… and another is, you don’t really know how bad things are until someone on the outside looks into your life, and says wow!, & dude!…

I used to call this losing yourself, the energy/marriage/consumption rate thing, I know that my life with my u/BPDw is utterly exhausting at times, very draining, it is non-stop sometimes, but I am always developing new tactics to “cope”, and get along somehow.

I am pretty much a caretaker now, do I love my wife, hmmm… I am not ready to answer that right now, it was a long weekend.

What keeps me in this marriage, well, if I have to give an answer right now, it’s the acronym “FOG”.

Red5

[formflier]

What about my other relationships?

 

For me, when I started focusing more on my other relationships and MUCH LESS on my BPDish relationship, my life got much better.

Honestly, my relationship with my BPDish wife has gotten better as well.  When my wife gets made or wants to do odd things, I can more easily "shift" to putting more energy into my other relationships and that sort of "insulates" me from the crazy.


FF

[mama-wolf]

Hi LL and welcome back!  I took some time to read through your other thread, and so much of your wife's behavior it sounded so familiar.  I really wish I had been able to recognize some of the behaviors earlier, but here I am now... .years in with two kids to worry about.

That does put things into perspective for me because I have never had a relationship more disturbing or painful than the relationship with my uBPDwife. I've never had a similar relationship with anyone else before. And my relationships now are suffering somewhat because of how much energy my marriage is taking.

It was only recently that I started to really pay attention to how bad things have gotten with my uBPDw... .and to how my other relationships had been deteriorating.  What I realized is that my relationship with uBPDw had devolved to a state that is completely unsustainable for exactly the reason you described... .it takes me so much energy on a daily basis, not only to accommodate her emotions and needs, but also to try and mitigate their impact on our children.  And my relationships with family and friends have weakened because I haven't been able to nurture them (and let them nurture me) in the ways I would want.  I also realized that my circle of friends has gradually shrunk as a result, making me more and more isolated, which suits uBPDw's interest in making sure I'm prioritizing and focusing on "quality time" with the family (especially her).

When I first started seeing my therapist, she encouraged me to seek out and connect with friends, especially those that could help me stay grounded and focused on objectively evaluating what is good for me.  I am fortunate enough to still have a couple of those friendships, but it's hard to get time with them.  I'm also very close to my mom and my sister, both of whom I see pretty regularly, but not usually one-on-one in a way that I can just relax and be me.  Typically one or both of the kids is with us, which is fine and important for the kids to benefit from those relationships, but I have to carve out more time specifically for me.

mw

[formflier]

For me... .I've used the "three-legged stool" analogy.

1 leg is a solid T relationship.  Complete openness with her about BPD... .

2nd leg is involvement with bpdfamily (a group of people that "get it").  I mean... .I can talk here about the baby my wife thought she "found" I had with another woman... .snuck her on our insurance... .and was "hiding her in plain sight" and people don't think I'm making it up.

Tell that to someone who hasn't been around one of these relationships and they will try to send you to looney bin.

3rd.  A solid group of family and friends that I DO NOT talk about BPD to  This is my pathway to normal.  Sure, there are a couple that every so often I will mention an BPD issue to... but that is rare.  Many of them know I have a troubled marriage and know and understand I like my relationship with them... .because we don't talk about it... .because we focus on other good things in life.

Back to the stool... .what happens if you take away one leg?  Yep... .no stability.  Stability is key in life.  For me and for my pwBPD.

I keep myself solid for me.  There is a "side benefit" that my stability helps my wife.

FF

[Red5]

Anyone ever see the old black and white movie "Lifeboat", circa 1944,

“After their ship is attacked by a U-Boat in the mid-Atlantic, several of the passengers and crew survive. Among are a millionaire, an aristocrat, a passenger who managed to survive with her baby, a stoker, and a purser. Not many have much experience at navigation or actually manning a boat. They rescue another person from the water: a German sailor, a survivor from the U-Boat that also sank. He says he can't speak English and the others don't trust him - with good reason as it turns out he speaks English perfectly and was actually the U-Boat's captain. As they try to navigate their small boat to the West Indies some will succumb to death and all will reveal their true nature.”

So I compare this movie narrative of being in the lifeboat ie’ living in a relationship (marriage) along with a pw/BPD, in my case my u/BPDw, and also all the extended FOO’s, and family relationships, both “normal”, and disordered traits thereof ,

So here we are; in a the lifeboat on the high seas of life itself, rolling with the never ending waves of happiness, discourse, and apathy/empathy, and human emotions… there are many personalities involved here in our little boat, other that my u/BPD wife with whom I am trying to maintain (sanity) a relationship with, my number one goal is to survive, and number two is to help others (FOG/Family/FOO) after I am sure I am not going to drown myself, remember the lifeguard rescue swimmer analogy from several posts ago, and all the while there are other entities (others) also in the life boat with me (us), some who are working against me it seems, some unwittingly, some on purpose, after all survival is key here, Some know my (our) situation, some have no clue, some I have told (befriended[dangerous]), some I trust, many I do not (FOO Blood).

It is a never ending ordeal of how much water is left, food stores, navigation (minefields), bad weather, no escape from the elements (life)…

Just trying to survive, and keep the peace, keep everyone safe, healthy, and alive (caretaker).

Yeah, we are in a life boat, being tossed about on the sea of life… and some of us are a little crazy(?), and some of us are trying to “be in charge”, and to “lead the others”, and some are very destructive and act out as such in our small little boat, without regard for the safety of the others, if we swamp, none of us will make it, and some may try to drink all the rest of the water, and eat all the rest of the crackers, while the others may be sleeping or not paying attention, and then there is the one who gives up, and drinks salt water, and tries to heave themselves over the side when nobody is watching…

Maybe a silly analogy  , but thats how I feel sometimes… but who am I (from the movie), the millionaire, the aristocrat, the engine room stoker, or the ships purser, or just an average passenger (bad luck) who managed to survive the sinking ship,, OR!… am I the U-Boat Captain himself; who is masquerading as a poor –almost- drowned sailor who just escaped with his life from his Kamandante Mein Capitain /Masters “predator killer submarine”, who started this whole ordeal to begin with.

Thoughts…

Red5

[Skip]

You're a reader. I'd buy this:

Loving Someone with Borderline Personality Disorder Author: Shari Y. Manning, PhD Publisher: The Guilford Press; 1 edition (August 15, 2011) Paperback: 253 pages ISBN-10: 1593856075 ISBN-13: 978-1593856076

You're 20 month in. The first priority has to be to learn tools and adopt a mental attitude that will start stabilizing your life today. I strongly recommend making this s first priority. If you don't try to stabilize, you will regret it later.

Margalis' book is a good book. There are reasons people stay in relationships. There are reason to go. It's an important decision to make. You want to be in the most stable place when making life changing decisions.

A thought... .

[ozmatoz]

"Start questioning your way of thinking about your relationship with the [BPD]. If relationships at work and with your friends are pleasant, effective, and enjoyable, why is the relationship with the BP/NP so disturbing and painful? There must be a reason for the difference. The difference is that you think and act differently at work than you do around the BP/NP."

LL, welcome back, I am glad that you have reached back out to everyone here.  I have this book downloaded as an audio book and listened to it on my commute for about a week.  This exact passage hit me like a ton of bricks and I hit the 30 second rewind at least twice and then paused and let it sink in for a few minutes.

Like you the worst relationship I had in my life was with my uBPDw.  Folks at work?  Great.  Family? Great.  Friends?  Great.  Until at one point they were all no longer "great"  the worse my wife got the worse my relationships with the rest of the world suffered.  I've lost friends, I've lost confidence from some of my co-workers... .heck I almost lost my job (still might) because of BPD shenanigans.  Like Red5 said, many of my "network" can tell when things are particularly bad at home.

Many on here have found ways to insulate themselves and put the work into other relationships to create the 3-legged stool.  I admire all of them for their efforts and abilities.  Everyone's situation is different, and in my case it has been that my uBPDw has come at my stool with an ax every time I try to replace one of the legs.  In short, the more I put stability into the rest of my life the less control she has over me, and this is NOT acceptable to her.  To the point of sabotaging just about any chance we had left in hopes of bashing me back into compliance.

But to answer your question about why are you still with her?  Only you can answer that, but I can tell you in my case it was FOG.  I took the blame figuring, well I can deal with everyone else in my life ok... .it must be something that I am doing wrong at home.  I know I'm far from perfect and certainly have my share in the dysfunction but at the core of it is her BPD.  I can't explain it away, I can't reason with it, I can't really understand it.  I have the choice to live with it, or fight to get out.

At some point there will probably be a "switch" in your feelings and thoughts on what you want to do.  Many of us recently have had the "straw that broke the camel's back" and when you can start to step back and see through the FOG many things will be come clear in both what her behavior has been and most importantly how YOU have been reacting to the drama.  Once you really start to feel control over your choices and what you are willing and not willing to put up with your relationship will start to move in one direction or another.

Stay with us, we're all here for you.

-Oz

[formflier]

adopt a mental attitude that will start stabilizing your life today. I strongly recommend making this s first priority. If you don't try to stabilize, you will regret it later.

 

This is so critical.  I used to think there was a wham bam she's diagnosed it's all fixed thing... .and I chased it for a while.

Once I got to the point of doing what I needed for me... being specific and deliberate about that... .things got better.

My wife still does odd stuff... .and I kinda notice it, but things rarely "fall apart".

It's also a mindshift to go from "let's fix this" to "let's stabilize". 

FF