Issues at school with D9

[LightAfterTunnel]

Hi all,

So this evening my BPDw and I met with my D9’s teachers for the presentation of her first semester grades. The country in which we live as expats takes grades very seriously early on and the meetings can be quite intense.

Our D9 has always had difficulty in school. My take on it has always been that she is extremely sensitive, introverted, and most importantly scared to make a mistake for worry of being screamed at (as she is daily by her mother). She is very intelligent but has a wall up from trying and putting in effort at school which I am unable to combat no matter how much time, love, effort I try to dedicate to her with school etc. I continually try to show her how much I love her and how proud I am of her. Unfortunately it isn’t my validation or love she seeks that she isn’t receiving.

Anyway, her teacher this year hit the bullseye with many very astute observations and she was quite honest in forwardly asking how we interact with her. She even went so far as noting that our daughter is very sensitive and needs us to be present for her to help her without judging her or coming down on her hard. She stated that D9 has let her know that she doesn’t like being yelled at. My heart was crying because this is how I have always felt and what I try to do. I was nodding in agreement with the teacher as she spoke and before I could speak BPDw blurts out that it’s because her and I are having marital issues and they’re (i.e. her and kids) never sure if I’m staying or going. I had a startled look on my face from this amazingly false accusation (marital issues yes but I by no means would ever vocalize leaving to the children) and I just shook my head in disagreement. The teacher replied that this definitely could be at the base of the issue etc. Finally I was able to speak and I only said that for sure our unstable relationship has not helped her but that I believed these core issues at hand regarding D9 were separate. I followed up by saying how great of a rapport we have (ie D9 and myself) and that she is very open to me about her feelings. Both very true! Unfortunately I could not say that D9 is desperately needing the aforementioned love, time, and demonstrated effort from her BPDm who is completely absent in these regards!

I have no idea what the teacher is thinking about the situation. But I feel like I should ask for a private meeting with teacher and open up about what is going on (how and what I have no idea!). I don’t want to overstep my boundaries, parent-teacher, and likewise BPDw privacy. I especially don’t want this to bite me later this summer when I expect to go through with separation. However, I feel like I need to somehow convey something about the situation to the teacher. D9 is suffering and her teacher really cares.

Any suggestions? I will be speaking with my therapist tomorrow for more local legal savvy advice.

I was thinking saying something along the lines of “I am very much in agreement with what you said the other day regarding D9’s needing aforementioned support. I have been aware of this for some time and I am trying my best but I am worried that it isn’t enough. She is very sensitive to high emotions that are demonstrated in the house and I am trying to give her a calm loving base as best I can.”

LAT

[ForeverDad]

Does the school have counselors for the children?  Their help may be limited but should surely help for D9 to find someone outside the family to confide in.

Can you find a counselor for D9 outside of the school environment who could be of more in-depth assistance?  Counseling is good.  Unfortunately, most disordered parents avoid counseling, they don't want light shown on the family discord and the Blaming truth be revealed.  Denial, Blaming and Blame Shifting is that powerful.

[livednlearned]

Hi LAT,

If you want to file for divorce, then yes, creating a paper trail of documented incidences can help, at least that's how it seems to work in the U.S.

One thing to consider.

It's very possible that your daughter is struggling because of the intense emotions at home AND because she knows you are planning to divorce her mom. Both can be true. You don't know what D9 is saying to the teacher, but since your wife knows you are considering divorce, and she's BPD, then she has probably shared this with D9, who may have shared it with her teacher.

You don't want to get sucked into a Karpman drama triangle with the teacher. Your wife likely felt very nervous in that meeting and stabilized her relationship with the teacher by throwing you under the bus. Trying to stabilize your relationship with the teacher by throwing your wife under the bus only puts the teacher in the middle of your marriage, instead of focusing on her pupil, which is where her loyalties lie. 

From what you have shared, my guess is that the teacher simply wants you to know that your daughter is struggling. She does not want to solve your home problems, she wants you to do that.

You can tell her that things are hectic at home, and that you share her concerns, and ask her to continue being nurturing -- academics are important, and maybe there is a solution to get her additional help during the summer so she does not fall far behind, etc. Basic problem-solving and potential solutions knowing that D9's world is about to turn upside down (if that's the case).

If you do plan to divorce, the only person (other than yourself and D9) whose opinion counts is the judge.

If you want extra documentation about your role in D9s schooling and well-being to satisfy a judge, then next step is to think strategically about how to capture that information without setting off alarm bells.

My son (age 8) told his teacher his dad was mean to him because n/BPD drank alcohol. Teacher told him his dad could go to AA. My son came home and told his dad to go to AA, and all hell broke loose, including n/BPDx emailing the teacher, making the teacher feel exceptionally nervous about talking to either parent. All of our school meetings going forward were intensely hostile, with triangles popping up everywhere. It was a mess and I wish I knew then what I know now  

I hope things go more smoothly for you.

[LightAfterTunnel]

ForeverDad and livednlearned,

Thank you for your replies. Both of you made pertinent points that matter.

So I spoke with my T today about what happened. He believes that I should definitely speak with the teacher. First and foremost to be there for my D9 but secondly to make her aware of the underlying issue. He said that I should not get into details but that I should say something along the lines of “I’m very worried about my D9’s performance in school and the influence of what is going on at home on her. I have been and I continue to try to support her psychologically to the best of my ability but the situation is difficult and my feelings on the matter aren’t shared. I’m very worried that this isn’t enough and is there anything you feel might help D9 in this difficult time? Is there someone with whom she might speak?”

I thought that this take was quite nice and I think it is quite in line with ForeverDad and livenlearned comments.

@livednlearned,

I am very worried at putting the teacher in the middle, as you stated, and this is something I will try my best to avoid. I guess what I have been most worried about is having the exact words to use so as not to provoke questions or prying. I want what I say to be concise, understood, and to focus on D9.

I want the teacher to see me as an ally in helping D9 succeed and not to focus on details of what is going on at home.

Thanks again for your replies... .they are always greatly appreciated!

LAT

[livednlearned]

I want the teacher to see me as an ally in helping D9 succeed and not to focus on details of what is going on at home.

One way to do that is to ask the teacher questions instead of offering answers.

What can I do, personally, on my own, to support D9?
Do you have any questions for me?
Do you have a sense about what would make things better for D9?
Have you noticed something working in the classroom that I can try at home?

When I went to see then S8's teacher, I let her know that he was going through some tough times, and that I knew he was capable of doing much better academically. S8 was labeled gifted, and was not handing in assignments or doing in-class work. I wanted the teacher to know that what S8 needed was the exact kind of nurturing that she was providing, and to let her know that I was trying to support him at home.

She reached across the table to take my hand and I teared up. Sometimes what you don't say is what gets conveyed.

Her suggestion was to introduce S8 to the school's guidance counselor, so I did that soon after. I made a connection with the family specialist at school, too. In the US, these are the social workers who work with families, and they have typically seen far worse than what I brought her. Together, we put together a plan to get S8 evaluated. I ended up bringing in an outside psychologist because schools don't typically test for psycho/emotional in their assessments, and I knew that part was going to be important to capture. We did all of this under the auspices that S8 was struggling in school, which allowed me to get him in to see a therapist, something n/BPD had resisted for years.

Also in the US, correspondence with these public school professionals becomes part of a public record. I met with them f2f to feel them out, and then wrote strategic emails -- I suspect they had to take notes after our meetings, too.

The custody stuff makes supporting our kids a bit complicated  

Glad you have a therapist to help you through this, LAT.

LnL

[LightAfterTunnel]

Hey everyone,

I thought I would update on the situation.

My D9’s  teacher responded to my written note asking for a face-to-face and she set up a meeting that took place yesterday. In the week interim waiting for the meeting I had my appt with my T who felt I should seize the moment. Very similar to what you experienced livednlearned, I had asked BPDw repeated times for us to have D9 see a therapist herself but she would never consent. So similarly my T thought that this might be a perfect occasion to have D9 teacher aware of the situation and have the school suggest D9 sees a therapist.

So, yesterday I met with the teacher and pretty much stayed completely clear of our relationship issues and focused on D9. The teacher was extremely receptive of the whole conversation. The only points I divulged regarding my wife was that she refuses to consent to D9 to see a T. I told her that I thought D9 needed this extra support and asked the teacher what she thought. Teacher responded that she was very happy to hear me in support of this idea and that she was wanting to propose it but wasn’t sure of our family situation or how we would respond to the suggestion. I told her I was in therapy and that my T had a specific pediatric psychologist in mind and would she openly suggest this person to my BPDw. She said sure and will be sending a letter to us soon to have another meeting where this information will be shared with wife present. The only other point I divulged was in response to teacher questions as to what the situation was regarding BPDw. I said it’s a very difficult situation and that BPDw could be emotionally unstable and severe with the kids. My T suggested I say more but I thought this was enough.

That’s it for now... .

Thanks again ForeverDad and livednlearned for your prior responses. They helped me greatly!

LAT

[livednlearned]

I hope the next step goes well for you 

Sometimes, professionals phrase things in ways that are so skilled. The psychologist who treated my son (who also did the eval) had a way of making n/BPD less defended. She focused on then S10's strengths and played them up. I suspect she praised n/BPD, or said something along the lines of how proud he must be having a son who was so bright, and that bright kids often feel bored in class, and that there are skills that can really help.

Looking back, I realize she probably knew n/BPD was narcissistic or at the very least extremely defensive about therapy. n/BPD interpreted the conversation to mean that our son was too gifted for school   or something along those lines.

I believe she knew his narc traits would be activated when it came to therapy for S10, so avoided too much discussion about what was problematic, shifting the source of the problem to the school environment. Kind of masterful 

[ForeverDad]

I believe she knew his narc traits would be activated when it came to therapy for S10, so avoided too much discussion about what was problematic, shifting the source of the problem to the school environment. Kind of masterful 

This reminds me of my first post-separation vacation with our preschooler.  Mother of course said No.  I replied this was a notice, not a request.  I was smart enough to start the vacation on my parenting weekend.  Once the weekend ended she tried to get an Amber Alert on me.  I read the sheriff's deputy's log.  He told her "It didn't fit the criteria of Amber Alert."  He made it all about the criteria, not him or his opinion.  How could she argue with the criteria?  (Well, she did anyway, no surprise.)  Kind of masterful too

[LightAfterTunnel]

So the meeting took place yesterday late afternoon with D9’s teacher and my BPDw and myself.

The teacher was truly great in how she prefaced the meeting, how she built up her worries about D9, and finally in how she spoke about getting our D9 an individual space away from school and home where she can get support and speak her mind.

BPDw was smiling and nodding the whole time and after the teacher finished speaking the teacher added, what do you two think about her getting this kind of help? Have you two thought about this as well and whether she could benefit from such therapy?

My wife answers (as I should have guessed by now) that “yes I’m in agreement and I have wanted this for years... .only that such therapy requires both parents’ signatures and... .” she didn’t finish the sentence but shrugged her shoulders, rolled her eyes, and nodded her head toward me trying to insinuate that I’m the one not wanting D9 in therapy! Her throwing me under the bus with a blatant projecting lie didn’t faze me the least... .I smiled at the teacher and said “great, I’ve wanted this too!” I couldn’t tell whether or not the teacher believed her reaction or what she said, but afterward I was thinking these situations must be hard for someone to have to evaluate and comprehend. If I was the teacher I would be confused.

Anyway, BPDw follows it up with “I’ve been wanting her to join an art therapy class but couldn’t make it work, or else I was thinking of her coming with me to my T”... .the teacher cut her off and said “oh no no, D9 needs her OWN space and one-on-one without the parents initially.” I just smiled. The only other thing worth noting was BPDw abruptly asked to the teacher, indicating the recommended specialist groups, “are the therapists women or men? Because D9 doesn’t like men and she didn’t like her male pediatrician before so I had to switch her to a female pediatrician.” Obviously this is my BPDw’s crazy projection onto D9. In fact our D9 didn’t ever dislike the pediatrician and my BPDw had a paranoid blowup years back over D9’s male pediatrician insinuating that he might try to sexually touch D9. The teacher wouldn’t know any of this but I just smiled as I listened to her projection.

Anyway, I’m very happy with how it went overall.

Now we need to set up an appointment for her with one of the recommendations and the teacher asked that she be informed of who we decide upon. She asked that if we are okay with it that she would like to be able to communicate directly with the eventual therapist. She followed up by saying that this direct communication is often useful and she has worked with many Ts with past students in this fashion. I don’t know if this is true but I don’t see any reason why not to allow her direct communication. Quite possibly it could be a ploy for the teacher to be informed of any abuse going on. Teachers here have quite a bit of authority in abuse evaluations my T explained to me so there might be more behind her request.

Thanks again for everyone’s help.

LAT