Wife's Other Man contacts me with 8 Page letter

[Enabler]

My uBPDw has been having an emotional affair with another chap from her church/village for the last 2+ years. After suppressing my anger about this for 2 years due to an attempt to avoid forcing my wife out the proverbial door I finally flipped out at the other man on Good Friday. I had spent 2 years being cordial to the man even though I found the things that he has said and written about me, validating the invalid, abhorrent, this ended abruptly and dysfunctionally at midnight - 2:30am on the street of our village. There were many angry words by me, many names and frankly a lot of rage. What started as a cordial discussion about parenting and relationships ended with a lot of shouting and a coming together of heads... .he claims headbutt but I'm not sure... .lets call it headbutt because it's the very least of the things I would like to do to him.

So, last night I receive an 8 page email from him telling me that I basically validated everything my W had said about me, that I was an angry, rage filled, violent man (towards wife and kids) with demons. That I blamed him for the demise of my marriage and that had acted as a destruction and scapegoat for avoiding self reflection and seeing what he see's as obvious flaws in me. He writes as though he's my friend looking to rescue me from this affliction and he is my white knight. He writes as though he's offering the hand of friendship... .

I am torn, I have an overwhelming compunction to correct the narrative, be heard and correct his understanding of the facts (or the facts as I know them and can evidence). I have a compunction to find out what he thinks he knows about me and what my W has told him (He trusts her implicitly and is assured by her genuine emotional expression). HOWEVER, on the other hand I know this is far more complicated than he can fathom and without him personally experiencing the non-masked Enabler W there is minimal likelihood of him having any understanding or empathy for my experience and therefore re-filter his experience of me over the last few years. He is a very manipulative individual who has acted on self interest in the past. More communication with him could well be a trap or it could be a genuine attempt to make me SEE THE (HIS) TRUTH, to rescue me.

Truth seeking and personal development for the betterment of my family and I is my only priority here. Divorce papers have been submitted so worst case that just continues to proceed. Best case is that he is true to his word and actually wants the best for W and her family and is prepared to listen. He is currently going through a divorce himself (his W is classic Borderline Queen) and has sought very little in the way of personal reflection on his own role in that, so maybe he has something to learn as well.

Is it worth the risk?

What are the risks?

[ozmatoz]

Wow.  Just wow.  First of all good job on keeping calm enough to not let it escalate to where authorities had to get involved.  I know that we nons often have to keep a lot of feelings inside in order to keep the BPD in our lives from using it against us.  Sometimes that hurt, anger, rage spills out.  We're human and can't keep it in forever.

Sounds to me that your W has him fully convinced of who you (they) think you are.  The fact that he spent the time to write you 8 pages sounds to me like another form of classic rescuing of your W.  He can point to how he wrote you a letter and "told you off" and that he has your W's back because you dont... .  Its all BS really.

Writing back or responding in any way is really only going to validate to him.  I know you know the truth and it can be hard to swallow that someone feels wrongly about you.  If you reply it will most likely be received as a letter full of JADE only further validating the OM and W's opinion of you.

The real question is, do you really care what this OM thinks of you?

Perhaps its best to tell him piss off and ignore his garbage.

Good luck

[Enabler]

I very much agree with your suggestion this is a continuation of his attempt at being her white knight to rescue her. It's almost resonant of a kid in a school playground taking on the bully (I'm the bully apparently). However, the fool/mug/gullible/idiot wants to hear what this man has to say. I don't think he wants a fight but he does want to "make me see it", the "thing" I'm missing about me. I want to know what he has to say.

I'm not sure he realises that I have spent nearly 20 years thinking it was me, thinking I was the problem, thinking I had been unreasonable. 20 years living in FOG that I was unreasonable for having needs and emotions, having a bad day, hell having a good day. 20 years feeling like I didn't have a right to decide what I did with my personal resources time, effort, money. If I am controlling, which I know I have been in recent years, it's to stop someone repeatedly kicking me and my kind, loving and forgiving nature in the head.

I want to give him the opportunity to tell me how much he knows me, how much he "gets it", how much I'm hurting my W, how much I don't care, how much it's always been all about me me me me me. I want him to do that so I can shove evidence, facts and rational behaviour at him.

But, you're right, he is meaningless in the grand scheme of me... .so why should I care other than to get my family to a position where we can begin to rebuild, rebuild with greater understanding of what is. Does he hold the key to this? Is he the one (or one of the ones) who prevents my W from facing the uncomfortable truth that she is as culpable as me for the state of our relationship, but then is he just one of a string of people she will roll through to deny her own guilt and shame? Probably.

Which leaves me back to... .should i do this for personal development?

[ortac77]

Hmm

My question is perhaps how this would help with 'personal development' - I certainly get the anger and frustration that somebody wants to 'tell you off' as clearly he is taking verbatim what your other half says about you - yes he probably wants to rescue her and of course as seems to be the case with pwBPD they will flit to a new rescuer once they have 'exhausted' the old one.

Hard as it is - you know your truth and I doubt you will persuade this other party of your truth, personally I tend to agree with ozmatoz  and let it go, I always liked the phrase "your opinion of me is none of my business"

In Peace

[ozmatoz]

Which leaves me back to... .should i do this for personal development?

I fully understand wanting (and having) evidence to clear your name.  This guy is basically smearing you to you.

If this OM and your W think of you as an aggressive controlling person perhaps taking the high road and not responding, or letting it go is really the personal development you are asking about.  Why give them the chance to use your reply against you as evidence they were right?

Frustrating for sure, hopefully you can find some avenues to relieve some of this tension.

[Fian]

Seems to me that anger is a natural response to a man sleeping with your wife.  It does not indicate that you have any psychological issues.

[Enabler]

Fian, there is no concrete proof no confession that they have slept with each other, but 30 WhatsApp a day, secret meetings, romantic messages and talk of attraction were enough for me to have boiling blood. Yes, it is a natural reaction and when anger reaches dysregulation levels it’s very tough to contain. I let myself down, I know that... .but it’s a natural response none the less.

I am currently considering meeting him. No emails, nothing written, just man-o-man. I really want to know nothing more than:

- what do you think you know about me
- what do you think you know of this domestic violence and abuse
- what do you think you know about my wife

The desire to want to challenge him on what he thinks he knows is my desire to JADE... .which isn’t great. But then is JADE and discussion different with a non than with a BPD? He will not dysregulate because I invalidate his knowledge with evidence backed facts. His “knowledge” is based on his evidence, namely from my wife.

[Cat Familiar]

DANGER, DANGER, DANGER.

I understand the desire to set the record straight. Remember he is solidly in her camp. Anything you say to him will be filtered by the information she’s programmed him with, and your words will get back to her. Not a good strategy since you’re in the midst of a divorce.

Also, I’d ask myself why I’d want to talk with him. To clear your reputation? To “save” him from her delusions? To break them up? To prevent further gossip?

And there is a possibility that your anger will escalate and further cement in his mind allegations your wife has fed him.

[Skip]

Ask the Pastor of your wife's church if he would host a meeting of the two of you. Then invite him.

My only question would be, why are you breaking up two families... .

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear Enabler-

I agree with Skip. This is understandably a highly sensitive and emotionally charged situation for you.  Why risk another chance of escalation?

And, It's not really possible to convince someone who's been worked over like he's been of who you are in one meeting.  He's obviously smitten.

So if a meeting of any type is going to take place, perhaps do it with the pastor mediating and ask that question about breaking up two families.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[Fie]

Hello Enabler,

If I were in your shoes, I would be terribly frustrated. I think everyone in your situation would have gotten angry, me included.

You are asking if you could get something out of this guy for self development. I do understand where you are coming from. However ... .Are you going to get any nearer to more self development through interaction with someone who has basically been messing around with your wife during the last two years ?

Moreover ... just wondering ... you probably know this too, but thinking about how self absorbed this guy sounds... You probably know that the classic mix with a BPD wife is a NPD husband ... just wondering. So if this guy indeed is NPD (you never know) than you interacting with him is all he wants. This would mean he's waiting for you to take the bait of his 8 page letter. I would say, don't take the bait, don't fuel him. Ignoring seems like the very best option to me. NPD wants attention, whether it's positive attention, or negative, it doesn't really matter that much. Don't do him this favour.

[Skip]

So if a meeting of any type is going to take place, perhaps do it with the pastor mediating and ask that question about breaking up two families.

And if he turns it down, which he likely will, this will speak volumes to all three of you.

[Enabler]

Wow guys, thank you so much for the brain reset. I especially liked the point about the NPD and BPD. Ironically when NPD web links were flying around between the 2 of them I thought “hey... .that’s you not me buddy!”. I think the best option is to decline any further “help” from him and park him in the bin end where he belongs. I re-read the 8 pager on the walk up to the pub again, it’s full of manipulation, full of opinions marked as facts and like all good brainwasheds repeats repeats repeats the message of “you’re an abuser!”.

No good will com from his intervention and he’s untrustworthy.

[Fie]

In my opinion, any decent guy would be terribly ashamed in front of you, after having been messing around with your wife.

The fact that he's not, and moreover, is sending you nasty letters with moral lessons, is telling me ... run for the hills. I wouldn't want any contact with him. Ignoring is what I would do. I wouldn't even waste my anger on him.  You are the normal one here. 

And for what it's worth ... you did some pretty awesome self development posting on here !

[Red5]

Hello Enabler,

I am late to the post, but as I read it, wow... .I am angry just trying to take it in.

This “bloke” has absolutely ZERO briskness inyour buisiness... .ZERO!

I would disregard and tell him to “move along”,

He is what I have read of as being a “fly-ing monkey”, in the world of BPD, yes, I’d tell him to go away,

Sorry you are having to edure this, this is “unmitigated gall” as far as I can see,

What hubris !... .ugh 

Like one of the posters wrote above, old supply/new supply, it may well be as simple as that,

Hang in there, and if it were me, I’d tell him nothing, as the fact is, it is NONE of his biusiness... .two years?... .REALLY,

That’s BS, .I would not engage but I may issue a stern warning to stay off my island!

Wow... .still mad just reading your post Brother ugh... .

Red5

[Enabler]

Thanks Red and Fie, others getting revved up on my behalf actually means a lot to me. I was told on Friday night by a fellow villager to stop talking about my marriage issues (despite him actually asking) because "It wasn't what people wanted to spend their evening talking about". I responded to this by saying "thanks for the advice, unfortunately that makes me feel even more isolated and alone than I did before." So, you know what guys, you getting really p!ssed off for me, that's meaningful support. It's not that this chap isn't a good person, it just makes him feel uncomfortable and would rather talk about football, politics and other man things... .not yucky relationships and feelings. "We want fun Enabler back"... .I'm sorry if I'm spoiling your fun mate! Anyway, he has a point but I'd been putting my energy into "Fun Enabler" being shown off on the home front, and thought it was acceptable to vent a little... .clearly not.

It's becoming more and more obvious that the more I converse with others the more frustrated I get. The same chap who told me to stop talking about my marriage started the evening by telling me his pearls of wisdom, explaining how a lot of women have issues adapting to being a stay at home mum, how this is forced on them and they lose their identity and feel controlled by lack of individual money etc etc. He thought he was soo wise, he had the whole situation mapped out in his head, how it was just one of those things. I plugged in a few facts, a few details that he'd not been told, maybe a few details my wife had overlooked when she was explaining her situation based on her feelings. Him and his wife had clearly packaged the situation up in a nice comfortable box, gift wrapped it and put it on a shelf as one of those situational "things" that had happened due to circumstances at the time and place... .rather than something that had been woven through our 20yr relationship like a golden thread, reared it's ugly head time and time again. To bridge the gap of understanding is clearly too much for many even when they can see it play out in front of them in multiple different examples (our village is a cesspit of dysfunctional people). It's like asking people to believe in unicorns and fairies. He did believe that my W doesn't actually want a divorce, and whatever I am doing now, I need to keep doing... .which is odd since she just petitioned for a divorce. This is the 3rd person to say this.

Spent some time yesterday highlighting and annotating the 8 pager. I've give it it's due time and consideration now. Taken what I need to away from it's contents and will leave it at that.

[AskingWhy]

Enabler, I am so sorry this is happening.

pwBPD (or NPD) triangulate--bring others into relationships for the goals of the pwBPD.

Your W is bringing in this man as the number 3 in your relationship.

My uBPD H does this with his adult children, especially the daughters.  The children are his narcissistic feed and support him against me when he is angry with me.  It's a mob attack.

I agree with Skip to ask the minister to be a mediator or sorts.  I agree with Red5 on this man being one your wife's flying monkeys.

[Enabler]

It’s wonderful when you can see the theory playing out in practice. My wife and actually her OM mock me when I label various dynamics or attempt to describe theories like the karpman drama triangle to him (he has his own marital issues running in parallel (go-figure!). Funny how he should fit the bill so beautifully.

[Turkish]

It’s wonderful when you can see the theory playing out in practice. My wife and actually her OM mock me when I label various dynamics or attempt to describe theories like the karpman drama triangle to him (he has his own marital issues running in parallel (go-figure!). Funny how he should fit the bill so beautifully.

It's true,  but what will you get out of this? It was very, very hard, but I detached from my ex and her beau... .while she was still living with us, though I wanted so much to talk to him. He wouldn't have believed a word I said anyway. They were and are two independent entities, free to make their own choices. My T told me that.  It was hard for me to fathom emotionally. I still find it difficult.

[Enabler]

Thanks Turkish,

For me real detachment has been like stepping down a step ladder, each level I think I have reached the bottom where I feel no compunction to do certain things... .I feel I'm there. Then it's moments like the argument I had with the OM where I realise I have another rung on the ladder, that I'm not quite there, that I realise that I'm still not quite rid of the compunction to correct his and her narrative about me.

That said, the further I step down the ladder, the more isolated I feel. I cannot discuss things with my W and see that she has to make her own mind. I cannot discuss things with the OM as he is manipulative and has his own agenda. I cannot discuss with village friends as they neither understand and merely report back to their wives who in turn report back to my W. I cannot discuss with my childhood friends as they don't understand.

So having spent time and effort analyzing, being self-critical, self improving and learning... .I have reached the utopia (or getting there) where I have self confidence in that I believe in what amounts to unicorns (BPD) and there's no point in discussing with anyone as they can't fathom that unicorns exist! I have to be comfortable with other people believing I am a terrible person because believing the unicorns were contributory is a step too far for these people. This doesn't feel like it should be great place... .so why does it feel liberating 

[Red5]

For me real detachment has been like stepping down a step ladder,

... .each level I think I have reached the bottom where I feel no compunction to do certain things... .

I feel I'm there. Then it's moments like the argument I had with the OM where I realise I have another rung on the ladder,

... .that I'm not quite there, that I realise that I'm still not quite rid of the compunction to correct his and her narrative about me.

That said, the further I step down the ladder, the more isolated I feel.

I cannot discuss things with my W, she has to make her own mind (or) OM... .he is manipulative and has his own agenda.

I cannot discuss with village friends as they neither understand and merely report back to their wives who in turn report back to my W. I cannot discuss with my childhood friends as they don't understand.

So having spent time and effort analyzing, being self-critical, self improving and learning... .

I have reached the utopia (or getting there) where I have self confidence in that I believe in what amounts to unicorns (BPD) and there's no point in discussing with anyone as they can't fathom that unicorns exist!

I have to be comfortable with other people believing I am a terrible person because believing the unicorns were contributory is a step too far for these people.

This doesn't feel like it should be great place... .so why does it feel liberating  

Good Morning Enabler !

I like your step ladder analogy, and I will compare it to coming down out of the attic on the fold-up stairs out in the garage…

It is precarious enough to pull the damn contraption down from the ceiling and unfold them as it is, and then to “trust’ them to climb up into the attic, as its dark up there, and quite cramped; full of boxes, hazards of all types, sizes and all matter of old stuff we should really get rid of… so I see what I wanted to see, I grabbed a hold of what I wanted to grab ahold of… and so back down I come, backwards, and I cannot see the steps below me, and I only have one hand free to grip the inadequate hand rail… but I am pretty sure I am close to the garage floor now, and as I take the last few steps expecting to be on firm concrete, NO!… it’s NOT there, and for just a moment I have this feeling of being out of control, and beyond the point of no return, I have over extended myself, I am going to lose my footing, and I am going to come crashing down,  … but my foot finally finds the last rung on the ladder, and then I am firmly, safely, and finally back on the hard cold cement floor of the garage… whew !

You are going to be alright, someone else said here a while back, “don’t trust your emotional health to a disordered person”… that’s good, no, that’s great advice!

Your relationship and marriage to your wife is yours and hers alone together, and no one else’s (OM)… don’t worry about him anymore, he’s still up in his own attic, on his own "shaky ladder", looking for his own garage floor... .as his own relationship and marriage is “on the rocks”… misery loves company they say, not a good thing to order from the menu, you sound like you are on the right track here, another analogy, you seem to be quite comfortable in your own skin, in your own head, that’s a good thing too… here’s another, don’t let people into your head and take up space (thoughts/time) unless they are paying the rent (healthy relationships)… this OM character… I’d not give him the time of day, and I would also let my (your) wife know, in no uncertain terms that her “relationship” with him is totally unacceptable to you, ie;… set a boundary there, she either will agree, or she will disagree, that’s her business, but I would not let myself me their doormat anymore… NOPE!

And as for friends, neighbors, and relatives, you have to have a secure relationship there, a circle of trust, gossip is poison, I’d avoid it all costs… I am like you in the respect that I really have no one really to talk to about my own issues with my u/BPD wife, and if I do talk to someone about it, I am damn careful as I must beware the ever present “flying monkeys”… and the drama triangles are also out there, especially with FOO, both hers, and mine… I myself have become, after much trial and error, and crashing as I fell off that damn attic ladder a couple of time (ouch), I have come to a point that I am quite self-sufficient, mentally, and emotionally… and I can self sooth, and not let the issues, and perceived shortcoming that others may think they see in me worry me one iota anymore… I can be quite happy, and secure in my own skin, head, personality; or soul, whatever you want to call it… it is extremely liberating as you say,

I say, be happy and secure with who you are as a person, don’t worry about how others may perceive you, its’ really none of their business what is going on with you, and it’s not yours either to know what they what they think about you, I’d let ALL that go post·haste!

You always got us Enabler, we ALL believe in unicorns too !

Hang in there, and be sound, secure, and absolutely comfortable of who you are, and in yourself !

Red5

[Enabler]

Thanks Red5 and likewise I like the attic ladder and heavy load analogy.

My greatest fear from further isolation and banishing other peoples opinions is personal delusion. I have just read a link from another post regarding analysis of estranged parent forums, it was a pretty interesting read. Anyway, long and short is that abusive parents on these boards club together to validate themselves claiming they didn’t know why their SO was estranged from them. I don’t want to be that guy who’s been told by his wife, told by the flying monkeys why his relationship is a disaster, why he’s abusive and yet claims to not get it... .in fact not get it soo much that I accuse her of having a personality disorder.

I have islands of facts, evidenced facts over 20 years... .this can’t be delusional vs the ramblings of a love sick rescuing puppy. That’s not a question and I don’t want cheerleading. Cheerleading is for the delusional estranged parents forum.

[Red5]

I have islands of facts, evidenced facts over 20 years... .

... .this can’t be delusional vs the ramblings of a love sick rescuing puppy.

That’s not a question and I don’t want cheerleading. Cheerleading is for the delusional estranged parents forum.

Good Morning Enabler,

I have to add, a pattern of behavior, documented, .tells the story.

Either good or bad, .there is no real way to put on (fake) this, .over a long period of time.

You just watch someone for a while, they will tell you whom they are by their daily, weekly, monthly pattern of behaviors, .that's a fact.

Twenty years is a long time, and also more than enough time to establish "markers" where a persons behavior traits are.

I have heard it said, ."folks don't generally change, but remain basically whom they are, and true to their inner selves"... .

Another one, ."trust your gut, its always right"... .I wish I'd have listened to mine many years ago,

Best Regards, Red5

[Enabler]

Another one, ... ."trust your gut, its always right" ... .I wish I'd have listened to mine many years ago,

I find it ironic that my W is given exactly the same advice, to trust her gut, to listen to the little voices in her head, to be kind to herself... .

But who's to say that those little voices, that gut and that kindness is reliable. In her case I would be inclined to say that they are unreliable, poorly wired and prone to manipulating facts, evidence and skewed by emotions. She is being advised to rely on the very thing that is causing her pain. Like trusting a burglars advice on where to hide your jewelry.