(Lack of) Ownership

[Hyacinth Bucket]

This is mostly to vent but any advice would be sincerely welcome!

My DD20, who is no longer allowed to live with us, continues to poke and goad me with the hope that I will do things for her. Quick background, we adopted her at ~16. I used to do everything for her because she refused to do anything for herself. The last 9 months we have been enforcing increasingly strict boundaries. When she turns 21 she will lose access to funds from the state that pay for her apartment. Every time I see her, she begs me to 'parent' her more, or says something to the extent of 'you are giving me responsibilities that I am not ready for.' These responsibilities she refers to are mainly things like making doctor's appointments. She tells me I know she isn't going to make them. I tell her that's her choice. She is very smart and has (seldom but occasionally) demonstrated that she knows how to do these things she is refusing to do. I continue to try to give her the means to accomplish things rather than doing them for her. She makes exceptionally adult choices (like being a stripper, doing drugs, being promiscuous, etc) but doesn't want the actual responsibilities of taking care of herself. I'm sure you all know what I mean.

She got fired (again) from her job as a stripper. She has been asking us for food money the past 3 weeks. I gave her a little and said 'finish applying for food stamps.' This week I told her no more money. I helped her fill out the application for food stamps a couple of months ago; she lost her phone and so she hasn't heard from them, but literally all she has to do is either show up at the office or call and continue the application process. I gave her access to a phone and I bought her a bus ticket this week. Fewer available excuses to make. She comes up with amazing excuses not to do things. She has a friend who said she'd go with her to the welfare office; I am expecting that if the friend isn't available, my daughter will use that as an excuse to just not do it.

Her (new) drug dealer boyfriend told her that she's not motivated and she got really mad at him. Apparently he has friends at a couple of places she'd like to work (that aren't strip clubs) but he hasn't introduced her to them, so she got really mad because 'no one is giving her opportunities' to find a job. She has a phone and a tablet, but says she can't apply for jobs online because she doesn't have a laptop. She actually resisted me giving her a phone because, as I finally figured out, not having access to a phone is the perfect excuse to not do ANYTHING.

It just gets old. Her 21st birthday will come soon, and she will have no safety net. I have been dreading this day for a long time. She will continue to beg us to live with us, only when she's feeling desperate, and we will keep having to say no. Our marriage/sanity/finances would not survive it. The reality is that she hates living with us, too, she just wants someone to take care of her.  I hate that she's a stripper, but I have grown grateful that that is an option to her because she can show up at a club and just start working. When she turns 21 she will have access to a lot more clubs. Some source of income is better than nothing.

She has been at least thinking more about plans for when she turns 21. That is an improvement. Usually she will do anything to avoid thinking about the future.

One day at a time is really hard!

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Merlot]

Hi hyacinth bucket

I can really relate to your story and its very hard to come to terms with our children limitations of BPD. We want them to grow up and take responsibility.

You are doing the right rhing in setting boundaries. They cant change but hopefully we can gradually elicit changes by making changes ourselves.

My DD27 is high functioning and a good mum to my GD1 but she was so incredibly demanding of my time and input into helping. Her abandonment/rejection issues kicked in when I tried to pull back and I am now cut off.

Hang in there. You are doing a gteat job even uf it teels hard.

Merlot

[Hyacinth Bucket]

Thank you so much, Merlot. I'm so sorry you're cut off right now, hopefully you are able to use that time to recharge yourself.

Sending hugs and thank you again for the encouragement 

[Merlot]

Thanks hyacinth bucket, are you able to go to the Welfare Office with her, or is that outside the boundaries you have set?

Also, do you have any plans after your daughter's 21st?  Just asking as my daughter always seemed to be better when there were events that were all about her and then she seemed to crash in the aftermath.

Take care, I hope we can both learn from each other.

Merlot

[wendydarling]

Hi HB

My DD20, who is no longer allowed to live with us, continues to poke and goad me with the hope that I will do things for her. Quick background, we adopted her at ~16. I used to do everything for her because she refused to do anything for herself. The last 9 months we have been enforcing increasingly strict boundaries. When she turns 21 she will lose access to funds from the state that pay for her apartment. Every time I see her, she begs me to 'parent' her more, or says something to the extent of 'you are giving me responsibilities that I am not ready for.' These responsibilities she refers to are mainly things like making doctor's appointments. She tells me I know she isn't going to make them. I tell her that's her choice. She is very smart and has (seldom but occasionally) demonstrated that she knows how to do these things she is refusing to do. I continue to try to give her the means to accomplish things rather than doing them for her. She makes exceptionally adult choices (like being a stripper, doing drugs, being promiscuous, etc) but doesn't want the actual responsibilities of taking care of herself. I'm sure you all know what I mean.
One day at a time is really hard!

It's difficult isn't it! My DD lives at home and thrives in a loving, caring, structured  environment, she's taken on responsibility for her BPD so things like health appointments she's on it, vet appointments, she's on it. Like you I don't 'do things for her'. DD does put things off that overwhelm her - calling insurance company took 5 months, filling in form for disability payment took 3 months and I think it's because she's already decided the outcome will not be in her favour - it will be dire (when infact it was a successful outcome vet fees for operation paid for and disability allowance successful). It's confusing when I see my DD is competent in some areas and not in others which I expect/assume her to be competent in. I do ask DD from time to time if she needs to problem solving anything I'll listen, tools etc - this is all confidence and skill building, successes.

Do you think your DD feels loved when you are 'doing things for her'? Have you considered therapy for you and her together to better understand what's happening here?

Merlot my DD is opposite to yours, she melts down before big family events and never want's events that focus on her.

WDx

[Hyacinth Bucket]

Hi Merlot and WD,

Thanks for responding!

We don't have plans for her bday yet, I don't really know where she'll be then as her current lease that I cosigned on ends May 31 (and I will not be renewing) and I'm guessing she'll need money more than anything for her birthday. She wanted to take a trip with us but financially we are not in a spot to do that right now. I'm also not sure i can handle a drunken crazed trip, she stays up all night! I'm too old for that (haha). She does like giant events focused on her. We will definitely try to do something special for her though, assuming she still lives near us.

I have offered many times to take her to other things, like getting a replacement social security card, and she says yes and then finds an excuse not to go. If I have time I would be happy to take her to the welfare office, it's hard though because she lives an hour away and can't drive so I have to drive up there constantly.

WD, it's SO awesome that your daughter can thrive in that environment. My daughter understands that's what she needs but in reality abhors structure and it has been so unsuccessful in the past that we can't do it anymore (her living with us). I wish it had been more fruitful. Our relationship started with me doing things for her because I volunteered with her when she was in foster care, so it has been a hard aspect of our relationship to change. She associates anyone doing things for her or giving her money with love. We have really pivoted the relationship though the past 6 months or so and she has been very understanding of what her dad and I are capable of helping her with.

We have our own mental health problems so it has been useful for us to talk to her openly about our issues and how we deal with them. She is able to see us as people, and she is very empathetic when we are stressed out and unable to help her in that moment with her problems.

Sorry I started rambling!

 

[wendydarling]

Sorry I started rambling!

Rambling is good HB, my life is a ramble and I love it 

She is able to see us as people, and she is very empathetic when we are stressed out and unable to help her in that moment with her problems.
This is significant and I'm glad to hear she's able to understand, appreciate and respond to your personal needs.

31st May and (Lack of) ownership, perhaps she needs to learn by consequence or pull it out the bag at the last moment? Hard to watch!

[Merlot]

Hi hyacinthbucket

It really can be so exhausting... .the constant barriers when we are trying to provide guidance. In the last few months with my daughter before I was cut off, I stopped trying to offer solutions. I just listened, validated and asked questions like "I know its difficult.  What do you think you will do?"

Like WD I think its fantastic that she ahows empathy. My daughter has been unable to show that to my husband and I.

One day at a time. I hope her birthday is a happy day for all of you.

Merlot

[Hyacinth Bucket]

Like WD I think its fantastic that she shows empathy. My daughter has been unable to show that to my husband and I.

Hi WD and Merlot,

Thank you for your kind responses. Getting her to show empathy for us has been so difficult. And when she is really upset she will still say awful things. She has started just hanging up on us instead, which at first I was mad about but then she explained that for her it's either say the most hurtful things ever or hang up. Progress! A few weeks ago I had 4 voicemails from her, and she texted me and asked me to please not listen to them because they were really awful. It is encouraging to see her self awareness improve!

I hope you both have lovely weeks. Thanks for your support. 

[Hyacinth Bucket]

Back to vent!

I always try to set things up for my daughter so that she has the tools to help herself and as few excuses as possible to not do things.

I refilled her phone and bought her a bus pass last week. All she had to do was go to the social security office to get a new card, and call the SNAP office to finish her food stamps application.

Somehow she managed to lose her ID for like the 20th time! I'm not sure she can renew her social security card without it. But I'm taking her her birth certificate and some other papers so she'll hopefully have what she needs to take care of things. I'm not going with her anymore. I really think I have paid to replace at least 8 IDs in the past 3 years. Which ironically she cannot get with out her social security card!

I'm not sure how she's eating and I'm pretty sure she'll ask me for food money. I've always told her I won't let her starve but that she'll be getting ramen if she doesn't do the things she needs to do. So I guess today is ramen-buying day. Sigh.

[wendydarling]

Whoah, go for it. Vent! I'm right behind you 

HB it's unbelievable how they lose things and lose things and lose things ... .they do. My DD has got better though it's taken her time to hold on to important things like bank cards, passports ... .going through the pain of sorting it all out on her own changed her approach, I hope you handing over the birth certificate etc does the same. I say to my DD I'm here if you get stuck, provide emotional support, support her as she problem solves and send her on her way to do the doing bit. And then we celebrate it's all sorted and she feels success, the very important bit. She knows what's coming next time, the same. Ramen it is.

That's some breakthrough your DD letting you know she'd left voicemails and she did not want you to listen to them, hanging up in order not to be hurtful. Communicating to you her feelings driving behaviour, thinking of your feelings is brilliant progress.

Keep doing what you are doing HB providing her emotional support to walk forwards.

Let us know how it goes.

WDx

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Daisy123]

Hello all,
I’ve read your posts with envy. Your DDs are doing somethings, like making it on their own or calling doctors for appointments. You’ve all managed to set boundaries and there are small movements forward. Yet, I really hear just how frustrating it is for us, moms, as our DDs are still so dependent or lack ownership in their ability to take adulthood, rather the steps to independence
seriously.
I share in your frustrations. My Dd sleeps all day, won’t take meds unless they are literally handed to her. My husband and I have had days where she’s not taken meds and have had to call police and hospitalize her. You’d think she’d have learned by now that she is a wreck when not on her meds. And, the sleeping all day or fear of talking on the phone can be maddening! She is supposed to do a phone intake for a PHP but is too anxious to speak on the phone. I just brought up th fact that she’s not in school, not has held  a job and I think it’s time she move forward for SSI. She was very much against this idea and said she didn’t want to live off of the government, yet I see her making no movement forward to be able to have a independent life. Doing so much for her is becoming too much.
My thoughts go out to all of you, moms, who move heaven and earth for your children.
Thank you for sharing. It helps to read about your experiences.

[Hyacinth Bucket]

I showed up at the time we discussed and she was surprised to see me haha. Oi.  I handed her some paperwork and $20 ( I wimped out on the ramen ). She broke with with her drug dealer boyfriend of 3 weeks because he was sleeping with her friend. But she didn’t call me melting down so i would call that progress!

Daisy, my daughter only has an apartment because we get adoption assistance for her and it goes to that. It runs out in 3 months and it won’t go well. When she lived with us she either slept all day or stayed gone for a week shacked up with a boyfriend. She has definitely made improvements but they’ve mostly come since we more or less kicked her out. I’ve so been where you are, it’s exhausting. You are awesome!

WD, thank you for the encouragement. It’s hard knowing she needs her id to do anything (maybe including getting food stamps?) if she asks for my help I’m going to try giving her one step to do at a time and then report back to me.

It’s amazing how many barriers she creates for herself. I happens so much it’s hard not to think that her subconscious does it intentionally.

[Hyacinth Bucket]

I just brought up th fact that she’s not in school, not has held  a job and I think it’s time she move forward for SSI. She was very much against this idea and said she didn’t want to live off of the government, yet I see her making no movement forward to be able to have a independent life. Doing so much for her is becoming too much.
My thoughts go out to all of you, moms, who move heaven and earth for your children.
Thank you for sharing. It helps to read about your experiences.

My daughter is the same! She doesn’t want to live off the government but won’t do basic things to help herself. My thoughts are with you, I identify so much with what you wrote. Thank you for sharing!

[Lady Itone]

Somehow she managed to lose her ID for like the 20th time! I'm not sure she can renew her social security card without it. But I'm taking her her birth certificate and some other papers so she'll hopefully have what she needs to take care of things. I'm not going with her anymore. I really think I have paid to replace at least 8 IDs in the past 3 years. Which ironically she cannot get with out her social security card!

Omg my exgfBPD lost her bank card constantly. She put her birth certificate boat title and motorcyle title in the recycle pile then got mad at me when I recycled them. Is it ADHD or subconscious self sabotage?

[wendydarling]

Hi HB

She broke with her drug dealer boyfriend of 3 weeks because he was sleeping with her friend. But she didn’t call me melting down so i would call that progress!

I wish I'd kept record of all the successes like this, it helps build a picture of all the wins and give confidence there is progress, yes they'll be set backs, it's the wins that fill in the setbacks, well they did me. 

For my DD I think her mind is just elsewhere, lack of focus, order.  Well we talked this one up between us, my DD came downstairs this evening and asked if I could pay for a flight before it went  - she'd pay me back, she couldn't find her bankcard, she's not seen it for a week   was assured it's in the house. Find it then and she did - it was in her dressing gown pocket?

Sounds like a good idea to go step by step with the ID card, its important she gets it. Bet you'll feel like tagging this one on her   Good luck.

WDx

[Daisy123]

“Daisy, my daughter only has an apartment because we get adoption assistance for her and it goes to that. It runs out in 3 months and it won’t go well. When she lived with us she either slept all day or stayed gone for a week shacked up with a boyfriend. She has definitely made improvements but they’ve mostly come since we more or less kicked her out. I’ve so been where “

Hello HB,
So sorry I had misunderstood. You’ve worked so hard to take care of yourself and your marriage! That’s quite a huge step forward. My marriage is totally challenged by our DD’s illness. For my husband and I , well - we can be at each others throats when DD is doomspiraling. I’m in awe of your strength. I am taking note as to how you meet your DD at a certain point giving her the opportunity to take ownership. How else will our loved ones learn if we don’t give them that opportunity? I hope your DD gets her ID.