Asserting myself

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

This past week things flared up. We have a lot of tension between us and its always typically awkward between us.

This past weekend, some toys were missed and not sent back to my kids moms house. She called me immediately and insulted me as a parent about not having a routine.

I hung up the phone and let it go.

The next opportunity we exchanged our kids belongings, she felt the need to attack me about our kids bed time routine.

The next time I saw our child, our child told me she couldn't walk with me from school because she would get in trouble and that her Mom said she was having too much Dad time.

To say the least, I became very depressed and anxious.

I was supposed to go to a play on Friday night, but my body physically could not be near or in the same room as her. So I opted out.

I also opted out of mutual events given my strong reaction to this.

Right now she is avoiding me and will ignore, play dumb, and give me the silent treatment or perform circular conversations if I assert myself.

I have an email prepared to be firm with her setting some strong boundaries and letting her know this wasn't ok.

I refused to see her during another drop off and she told me I was being immature. Yet, when I ask her to stop or confront her about her behavior, she says she's doing nothing wrong.

I love our kid to death. I love being a Dad, but I'm at a point where I'm like it's not even worth it anymore to keep fighting.

I can predict her responses. She will deflect, avoid, and counter attack and nothing will come from it other than me being pissed off.

Has anyone been in this situation and how have you moved forward? I have been struggling this weekend a lot.

Thanks in Advance!

[columme]

This past week things flared up. We have a lot of tension between us and its always typically awkward between us.

This past weekend, some toys were missed and not sent back to my kids moms house. She called me immediately and insulted me as a parent about not having a routine.

I hung up the phone and let it go.

The next opportunity we exchanged our kids belongings, she felt the need to attack me about our kids bed time routine.

The next time I saw our child, our child told me she couldn't walk with me from school because she would get in trouble and that her Mom said she was having too much Dad time.

To say the least, I became very depressed and anxious.

I was supposed to go to a play on Friday night, but my body physically could not be near or in the same room as her. So I opted out.

I also opted out of mutual events given my strong reaction to this.

Right now she is avoiding me and will ignore, play dumb, and give me the silent treatment or perform circular conversations if I assert myself.

I have an email prepared to be firm with her setting some strong boundaries and letting her know this wasn't ok.

I refused to see her during another drop off and she told me I was being immature. Yet, when I ask her to stop or confront her about her behavior, she says she's doing nothing wrong.

I love our kid to death. I love being a Dad, but I'm at a point where I'm like it's not even worth it anymore to keep fighting.

I can predict her responses. She will deflect, avoid, and counter attack and nothing will come from it other than me being pissed off.

Has anyone been in this situation and how have you moved forward? I have been struggling this weekend a lot.

Thanks in Advance!

[bluek9]

Hi Columme,
      You sound so very tired and frustrated. Welcome to this place. It's a good place of safety, comfort and support by others who know how it feels to have a BPD person in their lives. I hear much love from you to your child but also recognize the tangle of emotions that come from dealing with that childs other parent. I'm a big advocate of boundaries, so I'm so I right there with you on the email. Of course boundaries always piss off BPD's, but it's something we must do for our own sanity. I can relate with the feeling of just giving up; maybe a different perspective(mind set) is needed. That of knowing how much of a level headed, kind, caring parent you are to your child. Try seeing the world through her eyes. What kind of interaction is she getting with her mother? You may be the best infulence in your childs life. Sounds like there is much confusion and choas going on with enchanges, toys, bed times. You have the ability to be the calm in your childs life.
      I'm sorry you have to go through this, it sounds really tough. Keep taking care of yourself and setting boundaries.

[ForeverDad]

Can you imagine some sort of emotional shield to block the putdowns, snide remarks, blaming, etc?  Can you picture having an invisible shield that blocks her verbal attacks and sabotage?  Or maybe an invisible umbrella?  Just putting some ideas out there, she's managing to hit your hot buttons and you need a defense mechanism to not let her get to you.  What perspective would work for you?

[david]

"Your child told you she couldn't walk with you because she would get in trouble" Your daughter is learning coping strategies in dealing with her mom. She is young and this strategy makes sense for her age. As she gets older there will be conflict with her and mom and she will have to learn new and better strategies.

Our youngest is 14 and lives with his mom 50% of the time. All the other brothers are older and all have NC or LC with their mom. His coping strategy is to avoid his mom when he is with her. He also has figured out "how to talk" got his mom without triggering her. The older boys that are LC basically do the same thing with her.

I try finding a solution around ex when problems arise. It isn't always easy but it works better then "co parenting". Also, I discovered ex is not consistent so, given time, she forgets what triggered her and why she said/did what she said/did.

[columme]

I sent her an email. She then attacked me for sending an email since I told her email wasn't the best way to communicate a LONG time (a year) ago. We were fighting via e-mail. Since, she has ignored me discussing the issues altogether.

I told her I did not like being attacked at pick up and drop offs and I did not appreciate our daughter feeling the way she did.

She responded with denying pick up and drop offs were an issue and said I shouldn't take out my issues on her when I ask her not to do something. She never confirmed or denied she said our daughter was having too much Dad time.

Then she told me do not respond to her email, she has zero interest in fighting with me. My tone was in my opinion de-escalating and friendly and trying to make sure those interactions don't happen in the future.

She said it wasn't fair to our daughter since I started protecting myself from her toxic words and behavior. I missed a play at my kids school and refused to go to a mutual kid event. It sucks, but I do feel better.

This does include distancing myself around our daughter and her at the same time (it causes me a lot of distress).

I feel like I put myself in a lot of harms way to give our daughter the illusion things were Ok, and I physically can't anymore.

[bluek9]

Hi Columme,

    Just read your last post,wow on the physically can't anymore. I'm so sorry you have to feel that way, but I'm very encouraged to hear that you know your own limits. Dealing with BPD is exhausting! Having a child in the middle is even worse. I am glad you sent the email, great way to put your boundaries out there. From what you said her answer was it sounds like she has deep defense mechanisms. Sadly that will never change. One of the main reasons we hear on the board that WE must change ourselves.
    You never did share how old your daughter is. Maybe right now taking a break is just what you need. If you feel that you are putting yourself in harms way that may be a sign that re-evaluation is needed, to keep yourself safe. Let me know how things are going.

[david]

"She never confirmed or denied she said ur daughter was having too much Dad time."
I learned that when I divulged info like that to my ex she raged at me in an email and then attacked our boys for telling me. I was concerned that our boys would shut down and stop talking to me. I decided to not share such info to ex. This way our two boys could feel safe telling me anything. That trust grew stronger and stronger as time went on.
It gave our boys a place to safely vent, discuss, have dialogue, etc to help them figure out the best way to deal with their mom. I adjusted as situations dictated but I never communicated to my ex what they were talking to me about.
A few years later, we had a custody eval. The evaluator talked to both boys individually. He then talked to "both" of us about the things that concerned him. I basically sat and listened to his conversation with ex. The two boys description of their time with their mom never included her in any part of the description. They were telling me they were avoiding her when they were with me but it was never in a direct way. It was just in the way they described things to me. I learned to listen a lot and validate their feelings and perceptions. While sitting in that meeting with the evaluator, I realized how strongly they avoided her to stay safe from her wrath and rages. They learned to say what they believed she wanted to hear and not what they actually thought or felt. I remember feeling sorry that they had to experience that whenever they were with her.
The more emotionally detached I became from ex the less she "got me".

[ozmatoz]

I can totally relate to having to step away from your own children when the event includes their mom.  We're still all under the same roof (hopefully not much longer) and even in my own home I won't join in.  When its just the kids and mom going somewhere usually the kids invite me and sometimes I have to say no.

There is just so much animosity and seething hatred that is directed towards me that it really makes me uncomfortable, especially around the kids.  I don't want them to see how their mother treats me.  Sure I could probably do a better job with my attitude, but I'm just so utterly exhausted with every boundary I try to put up getting completely bulldozed.

When I try to bring that up I am also met with the thoughts and feelings that she has done nothing wrong.  Or that any of her actions are a direct result of how I treat her.  Basically nothing can be her fault.

Its so exhausting.  I get it.

Be well,
-Oz

[kells76]

Hi columme,

Yeah, shared events are tough. What a hard feeling -- either take care of yourself and not go, or take care of your kid and go but feel beyond stressed, and have your kid see how Mom treats you. Ouch.

We've been there, too. You're not alone in how hard this can be! SD12 used to be in an activity that involved day-long events. DH and I went to a lot of them (but not all), and our stress level was usually through the roof. We couldn't really handle sitting next to or even near Mom and Stepdad, so we didn't. Stepdad is a yeller, too, so that made it... .fun 

We also all went to the same small church. Lots of tense times there, too.

OK, so, practical strategies for you to try, because if I'm hearing you right, you don't want to be stuck between the Rock of Mom's behavior and the Hard Place of not going to see your kid's events.

FD's idea of the umbrella/impenetrable shell/bubble around yourself may work. Another thing I've done is at church, where we had a lot of friends who knew more of the back story, whenever I saw Mom or had to listen to Stepdad, I would make sure to look around the room and -- I don't really know how to explain this -- really focus on those people, and imagine getting strength from them, and imagine knowing that they were listening to all this BS too but were supporting me and DH.

A third strategy would be to bring friend(s) with you to these events -- do you have a sibling, work friend, parent of your kid's friend, someone from church, etc, who would come with you? That can take a lot of the tension down for you. You have someone you can kind of lean on so you're not all alone in that situation, if that makes sense.

Hope this helps... .

kells76

[columme]

Lots of good feedback. I appreciate it.

For the past couple weeks her anger has been through the roof.

My kid vented today about it all. I will keep what she tells me between her and I from now on. That's great advice.

I've asked my kids Mom, so many times that if she has an issue or concern to write an email or address it differently.

The only time she legitimately attacks me is pick up and drop offs or our kids mutual events.

Today for instance, she just dove right into our daughter and then tore me a new one. And then when she didn't get her way, got so pissed off.

The physical reaction I get is so intense. My heart shoots through the roof. My body is so tense and it's like tunnel vision. Prior to these situations, I have anticipatory anxiety in being around her.

It's a really exhausting thing to deal with.

[JNChell]

Hey there, columme.
I can relate to the feelings you’re describing here. The anticipatory anxiety. Yep. It just plain sucks. I really do feel for you.   The physical responses that I was having sound very similar to your’s, and it just became too much. Our Son is only 3, so I haven’t had to factor in attending mutual events yet, but I dread it. I have our current situation set up to where we don’t see each other face to face for exchanges. I haven’t seen her in about a month and a half and it’s helped me to decompress a little more. It hurts when they call us bad parents and the like. Please realize that that is nothing more than projection. I know it’s hard, but just let it roll off of you. If you were a bad parent, you wouldn’t be here seeking help with this.

I wish I had some solid advice for you on this, but I’m trying to navigate this as well. I just want to extend my support to you. We’re surrounded by good people here. Hang in there.

[Panda39]

The only time she legitimately attacks me is pick up and drop offs or our kids mutual events.

Today for instance, she just dove right into our daughter and then tore me a new one. And then when she didn't get her way, got so pissed off.

Was this at an event or drop off/pick up?  At drop off and pick ups I would just pull up let daughter get out and get in the house and leave.  If you're dropping her off and mom comes out before your daughter makes it to the front door just leave your ex is there and can get her inside. There doesn't need to be any contact between your ex and you during the exchange.  If she does make it to your car and starts something.  Don't engage tell her you have to leave and to please send you an email about "her issue".  Then leave.  If you get an email, then review it.  Is it about your daughter? or is it just 3 pages of bashing you?  If it's bashing don't respond (don't JADE Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain all this does is feed her more to argue with you about), if it's about your daughter and is a legitimate concern then respond using BIFF.  Brief Informative Friendly Firm.  In other words keep it short and sweet. 

Keep all emails as documentation you may need them if you ever have to go back to court. You can show a pattern of behavior.

More on BIFF & JADE... .

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=134124.0

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=139972.0

Panda39

[david]

Find out what the laws are in your state. If you are allowed to record, then do so. If her knowledge of the recording is not necessary then she doesn't need to know.
My ex accuse me of assault years ago. I left and went to the police to report what did not happen. Big mistake. They arrested me andI went to court. I was found guilty of disorderly conduct and jailed for two weeks. Lost my job until I could get my record expunged (5 years). When I got out of jail I purchased a video recorder and also a small audio recorder for when I was physically around ex. Our court order states that ,during pickups, ex is to stay in her residence until I drive away. I never made a big deal of it but jail changes your thinking. The first time I went to pick up our boys at her place. She came out and started walking towards my vehicle. I turned the video recorder on and pointed it at her. As soon as she saw it she turned around and went back into her place. Same thing the second time.
We went to court quite a few times back then. Ex brought up the fact that I was recording and it is not allowed in our state. The judge yelled at me and that was it. Eventually my attorney said I needed to stop recording because a judge will eventually do something to me. It took a few days but I decided to point the video recorder at myself. It may seem weird but it is not illegal. I talked to my attorney and he thought it was a good idea and it could be argued in court. He told me to do it whenever I thought I should. Ex has not approached my vehicle since. She will exit her residence but stays a good distance from me and my vehicle.
The recording protects me from being arrested. If ex makes another false allegation I can let the police see the time and date stamped video of me sitting in my vehicle and hear ex screaming at me through the closed window.
Doc visits, school meetings, etc I place the small audio recorder in my pocket and turn it on when I exit my car. I put a radio station on that gives the time, etc and have that at the beginning of the recording. I also have the video recorder in my pocket just in case I think I need it. When I exit the building I take the video recorder out of my pocket so everyone ( ex ) can see it. She doesn't come near me anymore. She knows nothing about the audio recorder. I can't use that in court but I can let the police listen to it. Keep the recorder on until I am driving away and the radio station announces the time, date,etc. It corresponds to the time and date that the recorder is keeping. I don't want to go to jail again.
Ex keeps her distance. The only thing that she was doing after this was to send nasty emails. I save and don't reply. With no exchange from me she lost interest in that too. Things have been silent for a while now. Our youngest is 14 so I still have some time to go.

[columme]

I will research some of these options provided.

Anticipatory anxiety has become an issue as of late. It seems like these past three weeks she has been off the rails. Every interaction is some kind of nonsense. I hate to say this, but I'm glad she's been tough consistently. I can get use to it. It doesn't bother me after three solid weeks of, ":)ad doesn't have college money", "too much dad time", "throws me under the bus to the school", "blah blah bah", "i don't know why our kid is mad, but its your fault".

This weekend I had a little heart-to-heart with my kid and she goes, "she always says bad things about you", "it's hard to know what to believe". Then she told me not to say anything, but I feel like that was the validation I needed after enduring so much bull___ from her Mom. I know it's not right, but I can't change it. I know it impacts my relationship with my kid and makes things distant. It's been so stressful.

The anger that I feel from being robbed is like a form of PTSD. Financially robbed. Emotionally robbed. Imprisoned in life. I've gotten a lot better in releasing this. This weekend she said, "I need to get over it". I'm like, I will never get over you treating me ___ty with my kid. She's like, "I don't give a ___ what you need to get over". It's been a traumatic experience.  This is my kid and you're messing with me, anyone is going to be pissed off. I'm not like, "oh baby I want to be with you and get back together", I'm like, "you're screwing my relationship over with my kid and my life".

Thanks for all the feedback everyone. Much appreciated.

[JNChell]

This weekend I had a little heart-to-heart with my kid and she goes, "she always says bad things about you", "it's hard to know what to believe". Then she told me not to say anything, but I feel like that was the validation I needed after enduring so much bull please read               | from her Mom.

Perhaps your kid is catching on?

[david]

Sounds like your kid is figuring things out. I had the same experiences in that area. The courts don't like to totally take away parental rights from either parent unless you can prove it is the only solution.

I learned that the less I reacted to exs' rages the sooner things got better and also the less ex actually raged. It took years (about three) before things started to improve in a significant way. I became so boring to ex and she couldn't get a rise out of me in any way. When I first started being boring ex ratcheted things up a bit. It did take practice on my part but I did get better.

Our oldest graduated high school and moved in with me full time. He talks with his mom rarely as far as I can tell. Our youngest is 14 and we have 50/50. From the stories I hear from s14 his mom is severely depressed. She sleeps most of the time when he is there. Kids do figure it out as long as someone is there that can listen, validate, and help them through some of the tougher parts. It isn't ideal but it is what it is.

[columme]

You guys are right.

I think in time the whole thing does come to light one way or another.

I try hard not to impose comments (bias) or do stuff that exasperates the situation for my daughter, but I'm not perfect and I think I feel bad about that because I do sometimes say stuff or I'm on edge or stressed out about all of it.  I have to work on that next at therapy.

I know. My kid knows. With her Mom's intense anger, she goes, "I'm just use to it". And I think we're both just trying to survive it sadly. I can't go to court and be like this woman is nuts. The courts don't care about that. They don't take into consideration all that invisible pain one endures with stuff like this. I have gone through the whole court fiasco 3 times and each time it just takes a piece out of me. As I'm sure you guys know.

I worry about my kid a lot. I know everyone here does. Otherwise, we wouldn't be here. I know my kid has been coached to not tell me anything and she admitted it very recently. I know. I know a kids not supposed to be the way my kid is towards a parent.

I know the stuff her Mom does to her behind closed doors, but I can't prove it. She's not physically abusive, but there is some serious emotional torture going on. The emotional stuff is so nasty.

In my mind I'm like who does this? Like this weekend... .She hadn't seen or spoke to her daughter in a couple of days. We are at a mutual kid event and she just goes, "the teacher saw you back talk to me at school and he said you were back talking him" and my kid is just like, "whoa... .I just saw you for 2 minutes and this is what's coming my way". No wonder why my kid dismisses her the way she does. It's not back talk. It's like leave me alone.

She goes back to her moms house last night and I pick her up in the morning to take her to school and she's in a foul mood. Her Mom is telling me she has no idea why our kid is in a bad mood. Cool, right? My kid tells me her Mom was telling her she was being mean and wrong about something before bed and then giving her grief in the morning. Who wouldn't be pissed off or annoyed about that?

It's like give the kid some space. Why attack the kid emotionally after 2 minutes of seeing them? Why attack the kid before bed? My daughter was just annoyed by the drama and her Mom being up her butt so much. It's too much. And this woman is oblivious to her behaviors impact on others.

As long as like you guys are saying I can emotionally detach, I can remain focused on what's important.

Thanks for chatting.

[ForeverDad]

Validation is important but be care to do it smartly.  Invalidation can be a risk.  An example may be if your child relates some bad behaviors of his other parent.  If you say "ignore it" or "... .but she still loves you" that would probably be invalidating, telling him to ignore his memory, his feelings, his objective conclusions of that bad behavior.

Yes we do want to wash away their tears and distress, but there are some ways that seem kind but aren't.  We have articles here that explain invalidation versus validation.