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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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Author Topic: Small victory  (Read 755 times)
Greencane

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« on: April 01, 2018, 08:02:38 PM »

Hi bpdfamily family, I’ve posted a few times on this board, but mainly I lurk and take strength from reading other’s posts and the good advice that’s offered. I can’t overstate how helpful this community has been for me. My last few posts have been made almost out of desperation, while feeling lost in the thick of drama, anger, and hurt. For this one, though, I’d like to share a small victory.

Things have been pretty rough with my dBPDw for about the last 6 months. She hates my mom, which I have seen is very common with pwBPD. She also hates the fact that I have friends who are women and that I (very occasionally) text with them. I first read Walking on Eggshells a few years ago, which was a great eye-opener for me, and I’ve been trying to practice the lessons and the tools in it and that I’ve gained on this board. Easier said than done, though, right? It’s one thing to think about how you should have acted or how you will act; it’s another to do those things in the heat of the moment. But I think I’m starting to get more of the hang of it.

I think that fact that things have been so rough for the last 6 months has actually helped. It’s made me realize on a more visceral level that I can’t second-guess every action and every word for fear of setting her off. It’s going to happen whether I’m paranoid or not so why put myself through that. It also helps that I’ve realized that if the worst (but would it really be?) does happen and we divorce, that I’ll be ok, she’ll be ok, and the kids will be ok.

The weekend has been rough because she didn’t like the fact that I texted one of my female friends for some emotional support after dealing with a tough situation at work. Then, when I was facetiming with the kids and my mom, my mom mentioned maybe coming up to visit at the end of the month for my daughter’s 3rd birthday party. My wife  got very upset with this, saying that I was making plans without her, wondering what other secrets I’ve been keeping from her, etc. So the weekend has been pretty frosty, lots of anger, criticism, and impatience directed my way. There was no outright abuse or meanness so I just let everything slide, and ignored her attempts to draw me in. I was thinking a lot about where my limits are and how to enforce them, but didn’t need to.

Tonight things came to more of a head. We had to send my stepson back to his dad’s for the week, which is always very hard on her, and she’s been drinking all day: bad combination. Every time my phone dinged with a text message (all family saying happy easter) she would ask who it was. Then she got more angry, saying that she felt like she couldn’t trust me, and that I’m doing things behind her back, and don’t I feel responsible for these feelings she’s having? I stayed calm and said that I could see that she was very upset and that I feel like her feelings are her own, and not my responsibility. She got more angry and accused me of sneaking around behind her back, etc, and I did not JADE, but again I acknowledged her anger and hurt. She then started crying, but stayed on the couch with me, leading me to believe that his was real emotion, but also partly for show, to try to emphasize to me how much I’ve hurt her. I gave her some tissues as a way to again acknowledge her emotions, but didn’t apologize or engage her. I got up to go to the bathroom and when I got back she was on my phone, going through my text messages. I told her that that felt not-right to me and that it was a violation of my privacy and she gave it back. I stayed in the living room until I put my daughter to bed, then came up to the bedroom for some alone time. She’s still stomping around in the living room and will likely be sleeping in the spare bedroom (that has been one limit I have been successful in enforcing obver the years: if she has a problem with me then she needs to sleep somewhere else, I’m not giving up my bed due to her unreasonable anger).

Through all of this, though, I kept my cool, didn’t raise my voice, didn’t JADE, acknowledged her feelings and perceptions, and kept my wits about me. It’s a small victory, in the middle of countless failures, but I think it’s progress.

Thank you, all, for helping me get here. It’s progress.  Smiling (click to insert in post)
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Mikey26

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« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2018, 04:00:52 AM »

I think it is a small victory indeed. I agree with you on "easier said than done" but it's possible to actually "do" it, I reckon. You know the "theory"; it's tough to put it into practice in real life situations, especially when their BPD kicks in, since it's not easy not to freeze. But you must. How long have you guys been together? How old are both of you? Is she having treatment?
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formflier
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« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2018, 06:57:41 AM »

(that has been one limit I have been successful in enforcing obver the years: if she has a problem with me then she needs to sleep somewhere else, I’m not giving up my bed due to her unreasonable anger).

Solid!

Can you share how you pulled this off?  What worked and didn't work?

I had to take a similar stance because of sleep disabilities.  Picking up all my gear and going to another place to sleep is a logistical nightmare... .

FF
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Greencane

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« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2018, 09:09:06 AM »

Mikey26: Thank you, I appreciate the support. In answer to your questions, we have been together for about 5 years, married for 3. I'm 43, she's 33. We both have individual counselors and then we see her counselor together (not an ideal situation, but she fired our last 2 marriage therapists so I agreed to see her counselor together because I knew she already had a good relationship with him). I've known she's BPD for years, but only got confirmation from a psychologist that we saw together for marriage therapy about a year ago. That therapist told me individually, but I don't know if she ever told my wife (who, ironically, is a counselor herself). Her current counselor is doing a lot of work with her on distress tolerance and reactivity, it sounds kind of like DBT without calling it that.

Interestingly, we just had a session together this morning, and he counselor acknowledged that some people may have called her borderline in the past but he doesn't feel that she is because there are criteria that she doesn't meet, and he doesn't like the idea of personality disorders anyway. He felt that a diagnosis of PTSD was more helpful. Hard for me to say how much of that was said to appease her, but, BPD or not the tools I learn here remain very helpful.

Formflier: Thank you! Praise from you on limit-setting is huge, as I have learned a ton about the subject from your posts particularly. Not a whole lot to share about that process, I'm afraid. We didn't live together until we got married, after about 1.5 years of dating. The first big fight that we had after moving in together, she went off and slept in another room for a few nights and then complained about how uncomfortable she was there and how there were no curtains so she got woken up early. She said it was then my turn to go sleep somewhere else and I just refused. She would then do passive aggressive things like playing the TV very loud, I would ask her to please turn it down and then when she wouldn't I would take a sleeping pill, put in some earplugs, and roll over. She eventually got the message.

I'll be curious to see how things go over the next few days. She's super upset and I half expect her to pull the plug on this marriage or give me an ultimatum, but with the help from all of you, I'm going to stay strong.
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formflier
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« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2018, 09:47:34 AM »


I would recommend getting rid of TVs and other noise makers in your bedroom... .makes it that much harder for them to do what they did... .

FF
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Mikey26

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« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2018, 09:49:38 AM »

Greencane, thanks. I haven't posted anything for some time and maybe I should. My BPD gf broke up with me (as it were, there was no closure whatsoever, usual stuff) in December. The pain was massive. I struggled fiercely to overcome it: I started to work out, went on a huge trip on my own, giant etc. Still, all I yearned was to have one more chance despite all I'd had to put up with (how come we are willing to tolerate what we tolerate?). Real life is a damn movie: I ran into her on the subway exactly one month ago. We've been back together since then. BUT, there's a big BUT, it doesn't feel real. I seem to be the one who's changed now. The idealization phase doesn't seem to have an end... .but she's jealous, possessive, puts me down, and it looks as though I've decided to lay off all my hobbies and friends since I came across her... .At times I want her to go off like a bomb once and for all to finish the relationship. She's 37... .I thought the age would help... .I thought they got a tiny bit better at nearly 40... .but that's not entirely true, is it? We've had only one bust-up and maybe I should've given up the try right then. All I wanted in the world was to have this chance, in spite of all the voices in my head, the articles I'd read, my friends' advice against it... .and now the penny seems to have dropped for me: I think I want out. There's pain, but a different kind of pain.
In conclusion, we must not put up with anything at all. "Easier said than done," but we'll have to learn. Or leave. Other than that, we may fall ill. I lost 12kg during the relationship. So do take care.
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Greencane

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« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2018, 05:26:58 PM »

Mikey26: wow, all that lost weight, giving up on your friends and hobbies, I agree those are concerning signs. It's so easy to get sucked into their black hole and lose perspective, confidence, and a sense of identity. Take care of yourself, man!

Formflier: the other thing that helped with the sleeping situation was one night when she got hammered and picked a fight with me and then locked me out of the bedroom, saying that she needed privacy. I opened the lock with a screwdriver and said that I will respect her right to privacy in a non-shared space. Good call about the noise-makers in the bedroom, why hand them ammunition?
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formflier
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« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2018, 06:16:03 PM »


  I opened the lock with a screwdriver and said that I will respect her right to privacy in a non-shared space. Good call about the noise-makers in the bedroom, why hand them ammunition?

Dude... .I'm so impressed!   Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

While your journey is likely not a bed of roses... .much better than if you had been a pushover for years without standing up for yourself.

Solid work!

FF
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Mikey26

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« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2018, 08:45:46 PM »

Hey, Greencane... .that was another small victory... .sorry to be candid, though, but it looks like a veritable war in there. How do you get to actually win a war?
Well, let me share this with you... .it finally happened this afternoon. It had been nearly a month. We spent the afternoon in a park, it was a lovely sunny day here. We had something to drink and I had something to eat (she didn't; she suffers from anorexia; there had to be an eating disorder indeedy). We chatted a bit, had a laugh together, then we played cards. Things were running smooth but then she had an intense burst of fury and went like "you dirty cheater, you dirty cheater; I'll no longer play with dirty cheaters... ." (Actually she fell back on some other words, you know).
Well, to make things short, I didn't overreact, but just told her "your reaction is unacceptable... .blah blah"; then I walked with her to her place (egregious mistake), no words whatsoever during the journey. She said goodbye without kissing or hugging or anything.
I would've felt down in the dumps some time ago. I would've even blubbered. Now I'm profoundly sad, but it's a different sort of sadness: this might be the closure I needed a couple of months ago. I feel a bit stronger now. But I know I might feel dejected in a few days... .I know things are not clear at all for me... .time will tell.
Anyway, do take care of yourselves, guys; these are really tough situations we've been going through.
Cheers.
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Survivor09

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« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2018, 01:25:03 PM »

Greencane,

your situation seems identical to mine. I am currently trying to calm myself down after  an hour long conversation with my BPDw. After pretending to be so drained until she could not tend to the children for the past 2 days, she finally called me on my way to work with general conversation. She was trying to act normal but was becoming more and more frustrated and I was unaware of the reason why. After arguing for a half hour about absolutely nothing to the point of my total confusion, It came out, she was angry because I invited a female gospel artist to be the musical guest at our church for Easter. She began to rant about how that was disrespectful towards her. I was totally blown away because I am the director. That's my job.  I'm very tired of arguing and going back and forth with her about foolishness. She also said that she's second in my life and that I don't have as lengthy conversations with her as I do with friends and family. She hates my mother and my sister with a passion as well as anyone else who calls themselves my friend or she feels wants to be my friend. Sunday at dinner, because I was having a conversation with my mother she suddenly became sick and demanded that we leave my mothers house. I could go on and on but I'm too upset right now. Thanks for sharing your experience. Not sure how much more I can take. Its been 10 years. 2 dating and 8 married
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Red5
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« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2018, 02:28:09 PM »

Greencane writes:  … “I’ve posted a few times on this board, but mainly I lurk and take strength from reading other’s posts and the good advice that’s offered. I can’t overstate how helpful this community has been for me. My last few posts have been made almost out of desperation, while feeling lost in the thick of drama, anger, and hurt. For this one, though, I’d like to share a small victory.”

Boy oh’ Boy!… I can concur with that Greencane, yes’ me as well, this site has been a God send to me… I have learned a whole lot over the last fifteen (or so) months here, I too was completely overwhelmed, lost, and out of answers for what was going on in my relationship/marriage, a while back, I went and re-read my first few posts here, and wow (!)… I was in deep troubles back then, but at least now, I think I may have a decoder ring of sorts that helps me to understand much better; as to “why”… and the wonderful folks here have helped me through quite a few mental log jams as I am traveling through this BPD phenomenon.

Greencane writes:  … “She hates my mom, which I have seen is very common with pwBPD. She also hates the fact that I have friends who are women and that I (very occasionally) text with them.”

Yes, another marker behavior of BPD, which is to alienate you for your family (FOO), friends, or any other support structure, or as well any friends period outside the relationship,  … that’s been a difficult boundary for me to enforce, as I became more aware of this happening.

Greencane writes:  … “think that fact that things have been so rough for the last 6 months has actually helped. It’s made me realize on a more visceral level that I can’t second-guess every action and every word for fear of setting her off. It’s going to happen whether I’m paranoid or not so why put myself through that.”


Wow, I still do this all the time, I STILL watch everything I say or do around my u/BPD wife, so as to try and intervene, and prevent her “going off”… always trying to be a few steps before her to remove any and all triggers I may perceive as a “detonator” for her behaviors… utterly, and completely exhausting way to live  … ugh  !

Greencane writes:  … “the weekend has been pretty frosty, lots of anger, criticism, and impatience directed my way. There was no outright abuse or meanness so I just let everything slide, and ignored her attempts to draw me in. I was thinking a lot about where my limits are and how to enforce them, but didn’t need to.”

Ah’ the BPD angst, never ending it seems… frosty (cold shoulder), criticism, and impatience, misplaced, and inappropriate anger, treated as though I were a child… Yes, I know all this too well, this reminds me of one of my preferred methods of punishing of the non (me)… the tried and true silent treatment (ST), an absolute favorite of the pw/BPD, used to punish the non, however (coma)… I have learnt to appreciate the ST over any of the other “punishments”… , as a period (time) of respite from endless cross words, and or paranoid cross examinations/behaviors from my pbd/w… I actually like it we she has retreated to her ST modus operandi (?)… Yes I do   .

Greencane writes:  … “I stayed calm and said that I could see that she was very upset and that I feel like her feelings are her own, and not my responsibility.”

To use a quote from our good friend formflier;… solid work !
Yes, when your BPD sig – other starts to come unglued, best to not engage, but maybe a small bit of SET, followed by, “well I am sorry about that, let me know if there is anything I can do, you may want to go wash your face, and get a glass of wine, as it IS NOT the end of the world imho dear”… or another I use sometimes, “I am sorry that you are now upset, but my best advice to you is to NOT let this define the rest of your day now dear… you ok there?”

Greencane writes:  … “I got up to go to the bathroom and when I got back she was on my phone, going through my text messages. I told her that that felt not-right to me and that it was a violation of my privacy and she gave it back.”

Yes, nothing seems opsec/secure, what is mine is hers, but not the other way round smh…  my u/BPDw goes through my phone all the time, as when I am in the midst of enjoying the recycle, and thus re-giving her the “new” password(s), because we “made up”  !… email too, and social media…well at least the one she knows about … another marker of BPD behaviors, albeit quite juvenile.

Greencane writes:  … “She’s still stomping around in the living room and will likely be sleeping in the spare bedroom (that has been one limit I have been successful in enforcing over the years: if she has a problem with me then she needs to sleep somewhere else, I’m not giving up my bed due to her unreasonable anger).”

Yes, as formflier says, good solid work, ie’ boundaries, “Sorry UR upset dear, but the couch in the office is very comfortable, the remotes are on my foot locker; and there is a poncho liner in the credenza, it will keep you quite warm tonight; what time do you want me to wake you up?… I’ll have the coffee on at zero six, see you in the morning”,  … yes, solid work !

Greencane writes:  … “Through all of this, though, I kept my cool, didn’t raise my voice, didn’t JADE, acknowledged her feelings and perceptions, and kept my wits about me. It’s a small victory, in the middle of countless failures, but I think it’s progress.”

Yes, anytime you do not allow yourself to be overwrought, or else overrun by the seemingly endless BPD behaviors, it is a good day, a small victory, and the payoff is a few quiet moments to yourself to reflect.
Peace of mind = mental good health and survival.

Greencane writes:  … “(Mikey26) wow, all that lost weight, giving up on your friends and hobbies, I agree those are concerning signs. It's so easy to get sucked into their black hole and lose perspective, confidence, and a sense of identity.”


Losing yourself in the BPD relationship is all too common, I too have experienced this… anything that I used to like to do, hobbies, working around the home, fishing, hiking, woodwork, doing things with my children (second marriage) or just things that I used to enjoy, very much so slighted by my u/BPD wife’s never ending tirades and disruptions/disruptive behaviors… utterly exhausting to constantly try to “keep the peace”… the term you use, “sucked into a black hole”; is very adept here… I called (call) this losing yourself in the relationship, and becoming a shell of who you once were… lets be quite careful NOT to do that shall we !

Greencane writes:  … “one night when she got hammered and picked a fight with me and then locked me out of the bedroom, saying that she needed privacy. I opened the lock with a screwdriver and said that I will respect her right to privacy in a non-shared space.”

Hmmm, one must be careful with that one, you see, I myself have used the ball of my foot instead of a screwdriver, to open the bedroom door, but that was very ill-advised, and I just unlock the door now, if she wants to be alone, she can use the spare bedroom, as it is a neutral space in the home, that can be instantly converted for use as a closed & private secure space, as our bedroom is OUR bedroom, and there is always the office man-cave, but I claim that as my “safe space”, but I am willing to share it, for a time  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post).

Yes, my stunningly beautiful, and quite angry u/BPD wife, .she can go in there, into Red5's layer of masculinity; and close and lock the door, and thusly be completely surrounded by reminders, and mementoes of ME ! ha ha ha !

A guiding rule I live by, .if you cant laugh in the face of ____ then you are indeed quite dead already!

Mikey26 writes:… “do take care of yourselves, guys; these are really tough situations we've been going through.”

Survivor09 writes:… “your situation seems identical to mine.”

As I read through all these boards, and as I mark the time that I have been coming here, and as well reflect on the last fifteen or so months that I came across the borderline personality disorder (et’ all) phenomena, I see that I, we; are certainly not alone in our travels through this paradox… am very glad that I know now; what I perceive to be the cause, the answer?… yes I do, but it still saddens me to know that I am in this situation, and I wish it would stop… but at least, maybe I now understand just enough not to founder within this  …
Red5
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“We are so used to our own history, we do not see it as remarkable or out of the ordinary, whereas others might see it as horrendous. Further, we tend to minimize that which we feel shameful about.” {Quote} Patrick J. Carnes / author,
Greencane

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« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2018, 07:29:02 PM »

Hey, Greencane... .that was another small victory... .sorry to be candid, though, but it looks like a veritable war in there. How do you get to actually win a war?
Well, let me share this with you... .it finally happened this afternoon. It had been nearly a month. We spent the afternoon in a park, it was a lovely sunny day here. We had something to drink and I had something to eat (she didn't; she suffers from anorexia; there had to be an eating disorder indeedy). We chatted a bit, had a laugh together, then we played cards. Things were running smooth but then she had an intense burst of fury and went like "you dirty cheater, you dirty cheater; I'll no longer play with dirty cheaters... ." (Actually she fell back on some other words, you know).
Well, to make things short, I didn't overreact, but just told her "your reaction is unacceptable... .blah blah"; then I walked with her to her place (egregious mistake), no words whatsoever during the journey. She said goodbye without kissing or hugging or anything.
I would've felt down in the dumps some time ago. I would've even blubbered. Now I'm profoundly sad, but it's a different sort of sadness: this might be the closure I needed a couple of months ago. I feel a bit stronger now. But I know I might feel dejected in a few days... .I know things are not clear at all for me... .time will tell.
Anyway, do take care of yourselves, guys; these are really tough situations we've been going through.
Cheers.

Man, it sounds like you are going through a ton right now. Are you getting any help or support? I hear a lot of sadness from you but the weight loss and the turning away from other things you enjoy has me worried. Do you have a therapist or someone to talk to? Do you feel safe?
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Greencane

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« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2018, 07:35:22 PM »

Greencane,

your situation seems identical to mine. I am currently trying to calm myself down after  an hour long conversation with my BPDw. After pretending to be so drained until she could not tend to the children for the past 2 days, she finally called me on my way to work with general conversation. She was trying to act normal but was becoming more and more frustrated and I was unaware of the reason why. After arguing for a half hour about absolutely nothing to the point of my total confusion, It came out, she was angry because I invited a female gospel artist to be the musical guest at our church for Easter. She began to rant about how that was disrespectful towards her. I was totally blown away because I am the director. That's my job.  I'm very tired of arguing and going back and forth with her about foolishness. She also said that she's second in my life and that I don't have as lengthy conversations with her as I do with friends and family. She hates my mother and my sister with a passion as well as anyone else who calls themselves my friend or she feels wants to be my friend. Sunday at dinner, because I was having a conversation with my mother she suddenly became sick and demanded that we leave my mothers house. I could go on and on but I'm too upset right now. Thanks for sharing your experience. Not sure how much more I can take. Its been 10 years. 2 dating and 8 married

It never ceases to amaze me, reading the posts from our family here, how similar a lot of our situations are. That sounds like a totally infuriating day and I can only imagine how drained you might be after 10 years. Has it been like this for the whole time?
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Greencane

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« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2018, 07:41:46 PM »

Red5: thanks for that reply! I've read quite a few of your posts on this board and it really does sound like you've come a long way in 15 months. It's still a bewildering daily struggle, but I feel like I have a framework in which to understand her actions a little better. I'm so, so grateful to everyone who posts here.

You know, I had a realization the other day. I work a lot with dementia patients and their families. My one biggest piece of advice for caregivers is when the patient accuses you of something you didn't do or says they just showered today when you know it's been a week, or anything that is plain out of touch with reality is not to engage. Why bother? You're just going to have the same argument again in 5 minutes anyway when they forget. Why reason with the unreasonable? It's like Peppa Pig (my D2's favorite show) asking, "How does that work, Daddy?" and he says, "Well, the load bearing tangent... ." and she says "you mean it's magic?" And he says, "Yes, Peppa, it's magic."

As I was saying this to a family member the other day I though, "Holy <expletive> that's the same thing they tell me to do on bpdfamily."
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Mikey26

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« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2018, 10:42:46 PM »

Hey, Greencane, thanks for your words. Actually I feel a lot better now than I would've felt some months ago under similar circumstances. She hasn't turned up at all since Monday afternoon... .I won't text her, let alone ring her up. I've won this second "round" though (we'd broken up in December; ran into each other on March 4th), as it were: I've shown her a massively bigger sense of self-worh and a stronger personality in general. This might be the reason why we got on pretty well for a whole month. A world record. But I knew I was in for a storm, and then it came, and now I can't help but wonder: do I want to live like this? Shouldn't I turn her down when she shows up ('cause she will, and pretty soon)? Is it possible to ever have a healthy, harmonious relationship with such women?
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Greencane

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Posts: 26


« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2018, 05:53:49 PM »

Hey, Greencane, thanks for your words. Actually I feel a lot better now than I would've felt some months ago under similar circumstances. She hasn't turned up at all since Monday afternoon... .I won't text her, let alone ring her up. I've won this second "round" though (we'd broken up in December; ran into each other on March 4th), as it were: I've shown her a massively bigger sense of self-worh and a stronger personality in general. This might be the reason why we got on pretty well for a whole month. A world record. But I knew I was in for a storm, and then it came, and now I can't help but wonder: do I want to live like this? Shouldn't I turn her down when she shows up ('cause she will, and pretty soon)? Is it possible to ever have a healthy, harmonious relationship with such women?

All I can tell you is this quote that I found somewhere on this site and keep handy:

We can learn a form of emotional Aikido which reduce conflict and balance our responses, but we are practicing that art inside a fundamentally broken relationship due to the BPD partner. In that sense our role is more as parent or therapist, and that will remain the case until we die, excluding us from ever experiencing a truly loving and reciprocal relationship with another whole person.

I admit it's kind of bleak but I do think there is room for hope.
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Mikey26

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 33


« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2018, 06:15:49 PM »

Thanks, Greencane. Sad but true, so I don't know if I want that. She hasn't turned up at all yet, and this space comes in handy. I'll see how I feel in a couple of days.
I think her disappearance has nothing to do with another inane test. I don't even think she sees me  as the worst sort of ass now through her skewed outlook on life. I believe she's hugely embarrassed.
Do take care, mates; we'll always go through tough times.
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