She's back

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Its going to be o.k.

What you have w this community, is experience, strength, and hope.

Hang in there, pause, write your thoughts in a journal, that helps me so much.  Self care for me needs to increase, in proportion to the stress I am going thru.  Do you have something regarding self care you can have today or tomorrow.  It can be simple, an hour walk for me.  A visit to a park, for me

You get where I am going.

The better i can be, the more I can deal w my life, and the things that aren't working... .

You are special, you are wonderful

j

[juju2]

Its going to be o.k.

What you have w this community, is experience, strength, and hope.

Hang in there, pause, write your thoughts in a journal, that helps me so much.  Self care for me needs to increase, in proportion to the stress I am going thru.  Do you have something regarding self care you can have today or tomorrow.  It can be simple, an hour walk for me.  A visit to a park, for me

You get where I am going.

The better i can be, the more I can deal w my life, and the things that aren't working... .

You are special, you are wonderful

j

[Dragon72]

Thanks juju for the kind words.

Update: the atmosphere at Château Dragon is still tense and dripping with latent contempt.

We're up to slightly more than monosyllables now, and she even said a frosty Goodmorning, albeit after I twice said it to her to get that response.

She tried a little test on me this morning.  As I went out as usual to do the weekly market shop, she handed me an empty bottle of makeup remover and asked me to get her a new one but in the larger 500ml size.  "Sure", I said.  I hadn't realized how expensive it would be and it has put a small but significant dent in the money that we have to live on until the payday on Friday. She did need it, and the cost of it was more than I gave her as pocket money since our bust-up, so she couldn't have bought it with "her" money. So I bought it.  Maybe I should have bought a smaller size and said, next time you pay.

So I went to the market alone (as always) in the morning, and I couldn't help noticing lots of married couples shopping together hand in hand at the market too. I have suggested to her in the past that it would be nice if we went together, but she gave me a look as if I had suggested that we clean the toilet together.  Even in the "good" periods we have, she just doesn't want to engage in that sort of intimate cooperation.  It has always made me sad.  Of course, before we said "I do" she was all over me like a rash with the public handholding.

Then, this afternoon, I asked our son what he wanted to do for fun and he said "Let's go to the park and give peanuts to the squirrels!". 
"Great idea", I replied, "Mommy, do you want to come with us?".
"No".

So we went to the park, just me and the little one, and I was thinking again how cute the Moms and Dads looked together.  My wife has come to the park with us a couple of times, but always kept her literal distance, insisting that we take it in turns to be with our son.

She just doesn't do intimacy. Never has, at least since our wedding day.  And that is something I really long for. 

I think that, if we make it through this patch where I'm setting boundaries and she's pushing back against them, she will still be an emotional cripple incapable of giving me what I believe is necessary in a marriage. That's why I'm thinking more and more about pulling the plug and getting a lawyer to do the paper work.

[Dragon72]

I have had to tell my wife twice in the last 24 hours to stop literally spoon feeding our son.  He's four and a half and she feels the need to spoon food into his mouth at mealtimes.

She's also teaching him disobedience while occasionally shouting at him for not doing as he's told.  What I mean by that is that she'll ask him to do something and then let him not do it for a long time.  The poor boy is getting the message that if he doesn't do what he's being asked to do, there's no consequence. And then he's shocked when 20 minutes later she's screaming at him for doing something he's long forgotten about. For me as a teacher, it's frustrating to watch.  And I have told her about this.

This evening I let our son watch a bit of TV and I let him change the audio to English (we live in Mexico, where the audio defaults to Spanish and our son prefers to listen in English).  But my wife (yay, she talked to me!) told me to switch it back to Spanish immediately because his teacher at school recommended Spanish language TV to try to improve his Spanish which is lagging behind his English a bit.  I didn't think of this at the time but maybe I should have said, "What do you think is more of a negative impact on his development? A bit of TV in English? Or having his mother sleeping with him in a double bed every night since he was born up to now when he's already 4 and a half?".

[Dragon72]

But going back to the intimacy thing, here I am complaining that she doesn't go to the market with me.  What's far worse is that property only about 4 or 5 times in the last 4 and a half years have we spent an evening in each other's company (she goes to bed with our son at 7.30pm, leaving me on my own), but also we haven't slept in the same room for all that time either. 
I feel so neglected.

[Enabler]

Hey Dragon72, ignoring your own needs or wants for the moment... .Why do you think she does that? What do you think she gets out of that?

Is she protecting him?
Is he her primary emotional attachment now?
Is she tired?
Is she avoiding you?
Is she using that as an excuse to avoid sexual intimacy with you?
Is it a hangover from nursing which has just continued?

You are the one who sees/hears the cues on this.

I was going to start a new thread on odd parenting behavior but hadn't go round to it e.g. co-sleeping seems common, wiping bottoms when they are capable, literal spoon feeding, inability to enforce household rules, making unenforceable threats.

[formflier]

A better answer to the TV thing would be "I agree babe... .let's follow the recommendations of the professionals.  Don't you agree?"

Let her wrestle with the discomfort.  I see you approach... it's a bit direct.  Let her connect the dots.

FF

[Dragon72]

Well, we just had another big argument. Once again, triggered by money.

She asked for money to buy new clothes for our son. I asked if it could wait until Friday (payday) but she kept arguing for it until I said no, it could wait until payday, because we only have $100 or so to last until then and I want to keep some aside for emergencies.  She then said we need to fill our gas tank as it's very low. We don't have mains gas.  I agreed and left about $40 to fill it up to a decent level when the gas truck passes by this afternoon. She then complained about her being in need of money, and I explained again that we don't have very much right now.  $100 minus $40, to be precise.

She wanted to know where the money was. I said I had it and I was looking after it because, after her unnecessary trip to the diet doctor, I don't think I am confident that the money is going to be managed sensibly if I don't make the decisions.  She demanded more money for incidental purchases and I replied that she does still have the "purse" money I gave her and that if there's a real emergency, then she should let me know and we could discuss how it might be funded.  I reminded her that now we have only $60 or so to last until Friday afternoon.

She complained that her life was terrible as a SAHM with so little money for her, so I said that I'm sorry she feels that I earn too little and that the role of housewife and mother is tough.  I said that if she wants to get a job instead, I would offer all my support and we could then maybe look into getting someone to do the housework. She looked a little stuck for words, then she then started to attack me for my lack of respect for her.

I let her talk for a while, and it seems she considers me lacking in respect whenever I resist her and stick up for what I feel is right.  When she finished I said I also feel disrespected by her.  And just as I began to give examples like when she offered to loan me my own money to do the grocery run for the family, or how she has only spent the evening with me a handful of times since we got married, I thought "I'm wasting my breath here. She's dysregulating. She's never in a million years going to say "You know you're right, you have a point, I have trampled over your boundaries and have not shown you respect for all that you do for me and the family".  Anyway, when I finished my 2 cents' worth she claimed that she only does those things because I don't show her respect.  Classic Cluster B argument tactic.

I said, "This conversation isn't going anywhere. Let's talk about it later."
"Give me a date and a time!" she barked.
"OK. 8pm this evening," (knowing that that's the time she's normally in bed with the little one).
"And what if that doesn't work for me and our son?"
"Then you should make it work.  A mother should not be sleeping with a 4 and a half year old boy."
"Says who?"
"Says just about any professional involved with child psychology and welfare, including his pediatrician who has said it since he was born and his school psychologists and class teachers."
"Well they're wrong!"
"I'm leaving now. Let's talk at 8pm."
As I left, she started on a tirade that began with "Oh there you go again, run away, disrespecting me again... ."

These may be extinction bursts as I begin to assert control and stand up to her, but I really can't picture a harmonious vision of a future us.

[Enabler]

On reflection what could you have done better?

From what you have written it sounds like you made some very good points, stood firm whilst acting pragmatically (the gas) and having the confidence to know that you were acting in an adult manner (retaining $60). You stated why you had retained the additional funds and evidenced that with her little trip to the diet clinic.

Did you identify the change of topic and metaphorical slap in the face (her insulting you) as the tantrum on the floor or is it only in hindesight?

Good to be self critical of how things could have gone better, could you have JaDED less?

[Dragon72]

Thanks Enabler

Maybe I could have JADEd less. Maybe I could have validated her sense of worry about the finances more.  But really it was about her pushing my boundaries.

I don't think I JADEd at all really. There's a fine line between explaining why you're doing something and trying to defend your actions.  I thought I kept just to the good side of that line today.

I don't think I did "identify the change of topic and metaphorical slap in the face (her insulting me) as the tantrum on the floor".  What was the insult?  What did I miss?

Thanks

[formflier]

Dragon72,

Remember... .you aren't going to "prevail" or "make headway" in her kind of arguments... .

Shorter... to the point... .1 issue at a time.

Anything... anything you can do to have her have less access to money is better... even if it is a pain for you.  Such as you paying gas company directly.

And... .if she asks for makeup stuff... and you realize later you can't afford it.  Own it... apologize... .let her know you will get it when it is affordable.  Just say you are sorry and move on.

Yes... .no arguments should not last long.  They should quickly move to consequence or action to support your side.

They do for her.

you say no.

she says yes

she gets in be with your son

argument over

You need to be wise and deliberate about how you alter this and shine light on the situation.

Once you start down that path... .it's going to get prickly.  Keep going.

Remember... .changing the money is NOT about the money.  It's about letter her know you have a backbone.  The money is a side benefit. 

Do you understand that?  Agree with that?
FF

[Dragon72]

I think I understand about the money part at least being really a test of backbone and it's a test that I have repeatedly failed in the past.

I also agree about the fact that arguments should be very short.  This one today dragged out too long.  When she argues, her tactic is to, deflect, project, counterattack and distract.  That tends to prolong an argument. When I tell her that the argument is drifting off topic and going nowhere and make moves to leave the field of conflict, she paints me as a coward who won't stand and fight.  Sometimes it feels more like I'm running away than showing backbone.

I'm not sure what you mean here: "You need to be wise and deliberate about how you alter this and shine light on the situation."
Are you referring to the situation of her sleeping in our son's bed?  If so, I'm still struggling to come up with ideas and options for setting boundaries and applying consequences for that.  I have been shining a light on it recently and it seems the more I do so, the more determined she seems to carry on.  The way she spoke today, it seems like she's in total denial that there's anything wrong with it.

[Dragon72]

Got back home after putting in a few hours work at the office.
No sign of wife, son. Car not here. No note/message to say where they are. No reply when I texted asking where they are.

[formflier]

You will get professional advice on your son.  That is above my paygrade.

Your wife needs to understand that what you say... will turn into action... and her "tactics" will no longer work.

She needs to understand that before the issue of the son comes up.  Money just happens to be the issue that has presented itself.

Next time she says you are a coward for walking away... .in your head... I want you to think she says you are a unicorn with two horns... .and pink.

It's completely nonsensical... .don't pay it any mind.

FF

[CryWolf]

They believe and reinforce that any restriction or criticism by me regarding her "rational choice" is a breach of her basic human rites and restriction to her liberty. You and I know that our choices are not always 100% rational and perfect but we base our choices on facts and forward expectations. Like you I believed that my restrictions were an act of cruelty in the past, HOWEVER, what was the act of cruelty was the lack of commitment to be involved in the responsibility side of the equation which ENTITLES someone to the rite to CHOICE.

I want to add on to this. My exwBPD and I were talking, and it lead to a blow up on her part. I am a huge pro-choice supporter and respect woman and their choices with their body. I respect everyone and their choices what they do in their lives, their religions etc. But I told her, I only think that once a female is 8 months pregnant she shouldn't be able to abort. Only because by that time the baby is almost fully developed and the female carrying the baby had a full 8 months for the decision. I think it would be cruel to abort last minute for the baby. Of course everyone has their own beliefs, morals, and some of you here may be pro life or pro choice. Me and her however are pro-choice and I only stated my opinion on the matter which is justifiable in my opinion and thought she would be okay with a debate. Nope.

She blew up on me. She was calling me despicable and how she could ever be with someone like me. How she didn't see the signs in me when she first me and she was disgusted in herself how I would be against woman's rights and their right to their own reproductive system. She then started telling me how ive been hanging out with my republican side of the family too much and even wrote about this on her blog. Next day it was like it never happened.