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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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Author Topic: Lawyer not pushing as hard as I think he should  (Read 692 times)
Eco
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« on: May 05, 2018, 07:09:04 AM »

I've only had 2 lawyers  as experience, the first one for my legitamation was very new and did a horrible job. The one I have now for my custody modification is highly recommended and has a good record in court but he almost seems to be more concerned with keeping on the good side of opposing council and the guardian ad litum.

 He's not pushing as hard as I think he should for what we are trying to accomplish. Whatever the guardian says seems to be law. My case has been rescheduled 3 times and by the time it reaches the next date it will be at 1 yr since the first reschedule.

He almost seems to be sandbagging or working with opposing council. I'm to the point of questioning on getting another lawyer. I'm not sure if it's ne being over critical or just not understanding the process.

I'm to the point of a mental breakdown because there is no sense of  urgency from my lawyer and he knows my 5 yr old is being mentally and emotionally bullied and abused by her mother in my opinion. My ex is extremely high conflict and very upset that my daughter doesn't hate me and is taking it out on her.

I don't have a smoking gun as my lawyer put it even with 3 years of documentation of alienation by my ex. My lawyer desperately tried to settle this without going to trial but when dealing wit with a BPD/narcissist there is only take and no give.

So we are set for trial
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toomanydogs
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« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2018, 08:24:22 AM »

I've only had 2 lawyers  as experience, the first one for my legitamation was very new and did a horrible job. The one I have now for my custody modification is highly recommended and has a good record in court but he almost seems to be more concerned with keeping on the good side of opposing council and the guardian ad litum.
I'm so sorry you're going through this, Eco. From the time I met my STBX to today, I've dealt with 7 different lawyers, plus 2 who are friends and who have provided advice.
One lawyer who had come highly recommended (this was a while ago, when I had initiated a divorce), accepted shipment of my couch, my chair, and three boxes to her office and then wanted me to come pick them up. I was really angry with her.
The L I have now, at times, in my opinion, has seemed more aligned with opposing counsel. My friends have explained why she might be doing things, and they have also advised when they think she's not being vigorous enough and how to handle it.
Personally, I tend to think that the relationship between the lawyers on either side of the case are 1) what enables them to get settlements achieved, and 2) can frequently appear as if the individual lawyers are not working vigorously enough on their clients' behalf. So I totally get where you're coming from.


He's not pushing as hard as I think he should for what we are trying to accomplish. Whatever the guardian says seems to be law. My case has been rescheduled 3 times and by the time it reaches the next date it will be at 1 yr since the first reschedule.

He almost seems to be sandbagging or working with opposing council. I'm to the point of questioning on getting another lawyer. I'm not sure if it's ne being over critical or just not understanding the process.
Do you have enough money to get a second opinion? If so, I'd recommend at least getting a second opinion.
The lawyer I mentioned above--the one who accepted shipment of my couch? I fired her. She never even got all the money I owed her. We settled for substantially less.

I'm to the point of a mental breakdown because there is no sense of  urgency from my lawyer and he knows my 5 yr old is being mentally and emotionally bullied and abused by her mother in my opinion. My ex is extremely high conflict and very upset that my daughter doesn't hate me and is taking it out on her.
There are no kids involved in my situation, but I also get frustrated that my L had no sense of urgency in getting me money, so I could buy all those nonessentials, like food or prescription or even, God forbid, clothes.

I don't have a smoking gun as my lawyer put it even with 3 years of documentation of alienation by my ex. My lawyer desperately tried to settle this without going to trial but when dealing wit with a BPD/narcissist there is only take and no give.

So we are set for trial

Good luck. And I would recommend a second opinion, at the very least.
TMD
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Panda39
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« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2018, 10:55:03 AM »

Hi Eco,

It's been awhile 

It sounds like you have been busy too.  Have you talked with your lawyer about what his strategy is? It sounds like you feel he is not being assertive enough.  Is he willing to go to trial it sounds like he his pushing for settlement.

Can you share more about what has been going on in your situation?  What do things look like currently? How is your 5 year old doing?  What kind of information have you submitted thus far? What has the ex been up to regarding all of this.

Panda39
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ForeverDad
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« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2018, 11:51:10 AM »

Lawyers prefer settlements.  So do the courts.  Many here have the impression that the expectation of a settlement is what allows so many court continuances.  This is not to say we don't get settlements, it is just that (1) not everything ends in a settlement and (2) a workable settlement doesn't happen until a major hearing or trial is looming.

In my case, the divorce process was approaching two years.  Both mediation and settlement conference had failed.  Finally we got the full-day trial scheduled for 4 months later.  It was on Trial Day that I arrived at the court house and was greeted with the news my stbEx was at last ready to settle.  Yes, minutes before the trial was to start.  She had a very favorable temp order and she was entitled so why would she ever agree to settle on reasonable terms until she was forced to?

A couple years later in my case, the 50% Shared Parenting that the Custody Evaluator supported didn't resolve the conflict and obstruction.  So I went back to court seeking custody and majority time.  This time we had a Guardian ad Litem (GAL) assigned and she took the middle road, she supported me getting custody but hoped leaving the schedule unchanged would appease my ex with Child Support.  (It was so silly with CSEA, all their letters called me the Non-Primary parent solely because I was paying CS.  I reported this to them and they said their system locked in the payer of CS identified as the Non-Primary parent.  I'm a programmer, if I had written their system I would have made that description select-able.)  Well, the GAL's partial solution didn't work, a couple years later I was back in court again to get majority time and that change did deflate my ex's entitlement balloon just enough.

There is a point where the continuances need to hear a "That's enough, no more!" response from your lawyer.  No more collegial cooperation without solid reasons for a delay.  Usually court will allow a few continuances, but eventually the court too will get peeved with repeated delays.  After all, as much as they'd rather preside over a settlement, they also could look bad from have old cases still on their calendar.

Same with my GAL.  She was good but she was hoping appeasements would work with my ex, describing it as a win for each side... ."Father will have custody but Mother will keep equal time so she can get Child Support."  Well, it didn't work, appeasements generally don't work with acting-out disordered people who refuse to reason or be reasonable.
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livednlearned
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« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2018, 09:31:56 AM »

he almost seems to be more concerned with keeping on the good side of opposing council and the guardian ad litum.

In what way is your L concerned with staying on the GALs good side?

Whatever the guardian says seems to be law.

What is the GAL saying?

My case has been rescheduled 3 times and by the time it reaches the next date it will be at 1 yr since the first reschedule.

It sounds like the court (plus weather) has created some delays. To your knowledge, has your L agreed to any continuances based on scheduling conflicts (his or the opposing L)?

I'm to the point of questioning on getting another lawyer. I'm not sure if it's ne being over critical or just not understanding the process.

Court can move at a glacial pace, lawyers can agree to continuances (as common courtesy to each other), and our kids pay for it  It's no wonder you feel the way you do.

he knows my 5 yr old is being mentally and emotionally bullied and abused by her mother

I think many Ls compartmentalize because they are privy to a lot of heartbreaking stories. They must also feel jaded, I would imagine.

My lawyer desperately tried to settle this without going to trial but when dealing wit with a BPD/narcissist there is only take and no give.

That sounds about right, even though it takes an aggravating amount of time to move the needle. It could be that your L is highly recommended because he is a good litigator. Not all of them are.

My L was a really good litigator. She also prided herself on being able to settle out of court -- that was her way of saying she had a good track record of keeping families out of court, and saving them money. It sounds like your L was trying to do the same, and now knows to what degree your ex is high-conflict.

Toward the end of my 4 year battle, my L and I became friends. She did some pro bono work for me toward the end, and confided to me that she had was going through a high-conflict divorce and custody battle herself, with another L, and that he appeared to have a PD.

Talk about purgatory  

The reason I mention this is because she was a really good L, and even with her own lived experience going through the very same thing I was going through, she still walked me through mediation and attempts to settle out of court.

Not all people with PDs are high-conflict. But high-conflict people most likely have PDs.

Our Ls will only know that when they learn during our cases how high-conflict our exes are.

My L did agree to not allow any continuances, and never rescheduled without checking with me first, at my request.

My ex's L eventually withdrew, and a year or so later my L and I were back in court, and we saw ex's old L. Both Ls were very collegial and talked about other cases, and seemed to genuinely like and respect each other, something I would never have guessed. During the conversation I witnessed, they did a bit of backroom dealing trying to give and take over some scheduling issue, so I know they treat our calendars like a matter of convenience, based in part on the urgency of other cases that involve DV, substance abuse, child physical/sexual abuse, endangerment, etc. That seems to reflect how the court works, too. When my hearings were scheduled, we would show up at 9am with everyone else scheduled at the same time. And then the judge would prioritize the cases and try to work with Ls in the courtroom based on what seemed to be courtesy norms. Ls don't want to get on the bad side of judges for obvious reasons, so unless there is a compelling reason, they seem to go with the scheduling stuff proposed by judges.

I'm so sorry your D5 is suffering, Eco. And that you have to wait a whole year.

Have you let your L know you're feeling frustrated?
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Breathe.
Eco
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« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2018, 08:47:53 PM »

Excerpt
In what way is your L concerned with staying on the GALs good side?
my lawyer has changed his opinion on the case after hearing the gal give his opinion. my lawyer seems to be very flimsy on his stance.

Excerpt
What is the GAL saying?
.

one thing that bothered me was the gal said the main reason he wasn't changing custody was my daughter has 2 sisters she lives with. I had to speak up and remind him that my daughter has a brother that lives with me that she doesn't get to see that often. her sisters are from different dads and my son is from a different relationship. the gal says that he found that my ex was " kooky" but not a threat to my daughters safety. as this is family court and the gal is free he didn't do a thorough job and doesn't see alienation as abuse.

Excerpt
It sounds like the court (plus weather) has created some delays. To your knowledge, has your L agreed to any continuances based on scheduling conflicts (his or the opposing L)?
 

Not that I'm aware of and he says the only reason we weren't reached was of our case being last. I was the last to know that it was rescheduled again. and opposing council filed additional discovery the day of our trial which tells me they knew we weren't going to be reached that week.

Excerpt
I think many Ls compartmentalize because they are privy to a lot of heartbreaking stories. They must also feel jaded, I would imagine.

I agree, almost like E.R. drs or surgeons

Excerpt
My L was a really good litigator. She also prided herself on being able to settle out of court -- that was her way of saying she had a good track record of keeping families out of court, and saving them money. It sounds like your L was trying to do the same, and now knows to what degree your ex is high-conflict.


Exactly, I warned him at the start about my ex but he really hasn't listened to me. He is very bad at communicating with me and changing his opinion about things. he forgets a lot of things about my case, I know he has a lot of cases.

Excerpt
Have you let your L know you're feeling frustrated?


Yes, many times. He seems ready to give up on my case as he is very frustrated. He has even gone as far as to blame me for not being in a better situation, I live about 40 min from my ex and I'm staying with my parents until this is over for financial reasons. My lawyer said
Excerpt
if you were living in your own place and closer to your daughter this would go much better
He knew that from the start and said it wouldn't be a issue now its a problem.
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Eco
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« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2018, 08:54:07 PM »

Excerpt
It's been awhile 
yes it has  Smiling (click to insert in post)

Excerpt
How is your 5 year old doing
thank you for asking, she is having a hard time. my ex has ramped up the campaign against me and its back firing on her badly. my daughter is starting to reject her, not wanting to go back, saying I don't love mommy anymore, I wish she would go away, and I want to live with you forever. she looks so sad when I drop her off.

I will answer your other questions later I'm out of time now.

thanks all
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ForeverDad
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« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2018, 12:07:50 AM »

one thing that bothered me was the gal said the main reason he wasn't changing custody was my daughter has 2 sisters she lives with. I had to speak up and remind him that my daughter has a brother that lives with me that she doesn't get to see that often. her sisters are from different dads and my son is from a different relationship.

That would bother me too.  Essentially the GAL recognized her children as Mother but not your children as Father.  It was very smart of you to counter that one-sided perspective.  Keep it up.  If the professional misses an issue it's up to you to point it out.

Crazy story from my failed mediation back when I started the divorce process, way back in 2006.

When we were in mediation a couple years ago (failed, of course) I mentioned she always said "He's my son!" The mediator reminded her that our son was "both your son AND his son".  She replied to him that he was "her" son and that's how they said it in {her island}.  He replied, You not in {your island}, you're in the US.  Nearly a year later the custody evaluator also included that possessive behavior in his report to the court when he said mother was very unlikely to share son with the father.

Interestingly, her uBPD mother and the uNPD now-deceased abusive stepfather raised the daughters, while the father raised the sons.  According to that pattern in her family, I ought to be the one raising our son, not that it would have any impact on her "father must not exist" splitting.
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