Kids' mom bringing in drama from DH's uBPD(?) sister

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

After the "art show" incident I thought for some reason the drama would die down. I can hear you all laughing even over the Internet.

DH met with Mom the other day to iron out schedule details for the rest of the year. That was the first thing they did at the meeting and mostly it went ok. Agreement for DH to spend longer chunk of time with kids this summer, which is great, plus more overnights. Mom did balk at one vacation, saying "I'll ask SD12 how she feels about that" (falling back into the old pattern),  but DH held his ground and was like, Look, you need to trust me that I will take care of her, and if she freaks out and wants to be done, that I will bring her back. So Mom backed off and agreed to the vacation, which is better than things have gone in the past.

After all that got agreed on, Mom said something like Hey, have you heard about your sister? DH immediately said I don't want the kids around her (before Mom said anything else).

So DH and his sister had a falling out back when DH & Mom were married, because DH wouldn't support her having an affair, and called her out on it. Seems not unlikely that Sis has many BPD traits.

Anyway, Mom said, haven't you seem her video? One of DH's family members saw this video that Sis posted which accused DH of abusing Sis when they were kids. This family member then told Mom about it (not DH).

Mom goes on to talk about how afraid she is that DH will abuse the girls. But also to say phrases that sound straight from the counselor, like But I've seen how much you've grown in the past 2 years, & I can't make decisions from my fear.

Mom goes on to say that they've been considering a road trip to see DH's Sis, and that when the kids are 14-16, they should "be allowed to decide for themselves" about seeing Sis.

DH was pretty torqued out about this when he got home, which is understandable. He said part of him wants to send Mom a detailed list of how all Sis's accusations are BS, but he knows Mom would take that as confirmation instead. I agreed.

Also, to make this more complicated, Sis had married DH's best friend from high school, and this friend's mom has been very ill lately. DH visited friend's mom recently, and most of DH's family has been really supportive, but Sis didn't show up or help.

So, my take is that Sis can't have DH looking "nicer" than her by visiting an ill friend when she doesn't. Plus, all DH's family's attention is on sick friend, not on Sis. So, she pulls a classic BPD and makes someone look worse than her -- way worse. Then, because some members of DH's family are into drama, one of them sends the video to Mom.

This fuels Mom's abuse/abuser fears and she, immediately after coming up with a schedule to have the kids spend MORE time with DH, says she's afraid of him abusing them.

I don't even know where to start, except that again, I have no idea why I thought the drama was done.

Some questions/thoughts, in no particular order:

DH liked the idea that if Mom brings up abuse fear again, DH says "I can see this is really important to you. Let's meet with Counselor to talk about it". So not JADEing when Mom brings up abuse. Otherwise not engaging with Mom on this topic. Any other ideas on how to deal?

Some of DH's family is supportive of him. I think his mom and stepdad are kind of fed up with Sis and so won't give her video much credence. But DH has some much younger sisters who might be affected. Same tactic maybe? "This sounds really important to you. Let's find time to talk about it together" kind of thing? Other ideas? Not bringing it up unless someone else does?

I think Mom has held it together enough to not tell the kids about the video (I hope). Validating questions if they bring it up?

--------

Where I'm at is... .afraid I'm out of practice with dealing with this stuff. I mean, yeah, there was the "art show", but that was more about silly petty stuff than abuse accusations. I feel like I might be in over my head because it's been so long (>2 years) since this sort of thing has been brought up. I guess I thought Mom was making progress? Which maybe she is? Maybe I'm feeling tired by the prospect of being "back at square one" or going back to the Bad Times.

Let me know what you think. It's a lot of drama and maybe the best call is for DH and I to just not engage.

[kells76]

After the "art show" incident I thought for some reason the drama would die down. I can hear you all laughing even over the Internet.

DH met with Mom the other day to iron out schedule details for the rest of the year. That was the first thing they did at the meeting and mostly it went ok. Agreement for DH to spend longer chunk of time with kids this summer, which is great, plus more overnights. Mom did balk at one vacation, saying "I'll ask SD12 how she feels about that" (falling back into the old pattern),  but DH held his ground and was like, Look, you need to trust me that I will take care of her, and if she freaks out and wants to be done, that I will bring her back. So Mom backed off and agreed to the vacation, which is better than things have gone in the past.

After all that got agreed on, Mom said something like Hey, have you heard about your sister? DH immediately said I don't want the kids around her (before Mom said anything else).

So DH and his sister had a falling out back when DH & Mom were married, because DH wouldn't support her having an affair, and called her out on it. Seems not unlikely that Sis has many BPD traits.

Anyway, Mom said, haven't you seem her video? One of DH's family members saw this video that Sis posted which accused DH of abusing Sis when they were kids. This family member then told Mom about it (not DH).

Mom goes on to talk about how afraid she is that DH will abuse the girls. But also to say phrases that sound straight from the counselor, like But I've seen how much you've grown in the past 2 years, & I can't make decisions from my fear.

Mom goes on to say that they've been considering a road trip to see DH's Sis, and that when the kids are 14-16, they should "be allowed to decide for themselves" about seeing Sis.

DH was pretty torqued out about this when he got home, which is understandable. He said part of him wants to send Mom a detailed list of how all Sis's accusations are BS, but he knows Mom would take that as confirmation instead. I agreed.

Also, to make this more complicated, Sis had married DH's best friend from high school, and this friend's mom has been very ill lately. DH visited friend's mom recently, and most of DH's family has been really supportive, but Sis didn't show up or help.

So, my take is that Sis can't have DH looking "nicer" than her by visiting an ill friend when she doesn't. Plus, all DH's family's attention is on sick friend, not on Sis. So, she pulls a classic BPD and makes someone look worse than her -- way worse. Then, because some members of DH's family are into drama, one of them sends the video to Mom.

This fuels Mom's abuse/abuser fears and she, immediately after coming up with a schedule to have the kids spend MORE time with DH, says she's afraid of him abusing them.

I don't even know where to start, except that again, I have no idea why I thought the drama was done.

Some questions/thoughts, in no particular order:

DH liked the idea that if Mom brings up abuse fear again, DH says "I can see this is really important to you. Let's meet with Counselor to talk about it". So not JADEing when Mom brings up abuse. Otherwise not engaging with Mom on this topic. Any other ideas on how to deal?

Some of DH's family is supportive of him. I think his mom and stepdad are kind of fed up with Sis and so won't give her video much credence. But DH has some much younger sisters who might be affected. Same tactic maybe? "This sounds really important to you. Let's find time to talk about it together" kind of thing? Other ideas? Not bringing it up unless someone else does?

I think Mom has held it together enough to not tell the kids about the video (I hope). Validating questions if they bring it up?

--------

Where I'm at is... .afraid I'm out of practice with dealing with this stuff. I mean, yeah, there was the "art show", but that was more about silly petty stuff than abuse accusations. I feel like I might be in over my head because it's been so long (>2 years) since this sort of thing has been brought up. I guess I thought Mom was making progress? Which maybe she is? Maybe I'm feeling tired by the prospect of being "back at square one" or going back to the Bad Times.

Let me know what you think. It's a lot of drama and maybe the best call is for DH and I to just not engage.

[ForeverDad]

DH liked the idea that if Mom brings up abuse fear again, DH says "I can see this is really important to you. Let's meet with Counselor to talk about it". So not JADEing when Mom brings up abuse. Otherwise not engaging with Mom on this topic.

This sounds practical.  Get a neutral professional who has some level of credibility with ex to provide helpful observations and input.  Presumably being adults and too many years ago means this allegation makes legal consequences moot.  His sis hasn't filed anything with courts or agencies so nothing there either.  And its probably futile for DH to claim slander.  As you concluded, it's probably to make him look worse than her.

[kells76]

Re: seeing the counselor: Mom did "let it slip" (probably on purpose) that she saw the kids' C in the last couple of days. Which is good.

Maybe part of what I'm struggling with, besides hearing DH get dragged through the muck again, is that THIS is what "Mom doing better" looks like -- it's all the same drama except she's not acting on it as much. I mean, it's good that she is talking to her own counselor and the kids' counselor before talking with DH. And it's good that she's at least saying the lines she's heard from them. I guess it's on me that I am surprised that "doing better" = 70% wacky. I know it started at 95% wacky but I kind of hoped she would be down to 10% wacky.

In a way the "art show" wackiness I can deal with better than the "I think you'll abuse the kids and I believe whatever your sister accuses you of" wackiness.

Guess it's time to recalibrate my expectations again. We'll try to not engage about "abuse" unless it's through the kids' C.

Oh and yeah, Sis never filed anything, and hasn't contacted DH directly about this.

[livednlearned]

The tactics you suggest sound really solid!

"This problem sounds serious, let's get a skilled person to look at this with us." Really gets the flood lights out so there are no shadows.

Drama loves the shadows.

What would happen if the girls bring it up, and DH just said casually, "Sister said that? Oh, she's always saying stuff like that. I think she's unhappy. Hurt people hurt people."

Then move on.

Or, "If you want to talk about it, I'm here to answer any questions. Or you can talk to T about it and see if she knows why sister says stuff like that."

Sometimes there's nothing like a good shrug. 

[ForeverDad]

I recall a member (david) described how he handled the ex's scary claims.  His sons had returned from an exchange saying he was dangerous and scary.  Clearly it was his ex's indoctrination.  Well, he started stumbling around and coming after the kids like a clumsy Frankenstein's monster.  By turning it into a game he soon had the kids giggling and the scary claims were forgotten.

While I don't think this exact approach is appropriate when someone has alleged "hot button" abuse, there are ways to defuse the impact and LnL had some good suggestions.

Another point is that it appears this claim probably was cast as supposedly occurring while they were minors, maybe mere children.  Kids have been known to be curious and somewhat innocently 'play doctor'.  He's an adult now and I bet the sister isn't claiming something happened when they were adults.  Another aspect is that, if at all possible, let this claim fade away and die a quiet death.