ventilation of feelings

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Sometimes ive looked back and thought, and ive read plenty similar posts here about a "perfect" day being ruined in some way, seemingly intentionally by our pwBPD.

It got me thinking though, maybe it was only perfect because I also did a good job of repressing a lot of negative emotions, my ex well, she seemed to have a whole life time of them stored up. The fact she eventually vented at some point and it caused the day to feel ruined, well, is it fair to blame someone for eventually venting how they feel? In some ways I feel happy that my ex could feel safe enough to show those emotions, even though they seemed directed at me, they just were a bubbling undercurrent of a lot of pressure that she masked.

I have my own part to play, this WOE stuff, it happened because I didnt feel safe to "vent" emotion when I had issues with her. Yet by not venting, these emotions didnt get rationalised away except for transiently. Its part of the reason ive learned its taken me so long post-relationship to have to play "catch up" with them all.

Anyone else recognise some of this.

[Cromwell]

Sometimes ive looked back and thought, and ive read plenty similar posts here about a "perfect" day being ruined in some way, seemingly intentionally by our pwBPD.

It got me thinking though, maybe it was only perfect because I also did a good job of repressing a lot of negative emotions, my ex well, she seemed to have a whole life time of them stored up. The fact she eventually vented at some point and it caused the day to feel ruined, well, is it fair to blame someone for eventually venting how they feel? In some ways I feel happy that my ex could feel safe enough to show those emotions, even though they seemed directed at me, they just were a bubbling undercurrent of a lot of pressure that she masked.

I have my own part to play, this WOE stuff, it happened because I didnt feel safe to "vent" emotion when I had issues with her. Yet by not venting, these emotions didnt get rationalised away except for transiently. Its part of the reason ive learned its taken me so long post-relationship to have to play "catch up" with them all.

Anyone else recognise some of this.

[tin]

I can relate. I realized that he was taking his stress out on me. That he was venting and ranting at me about the same thing over and over again! That he was always the victim and there was always someone to blame, shame and criticize! AND whenever I asked him, begged him to stop, that the emotional toll on me was too much. That I carried all the negatively he shared me me, that it weighed heavily on me, and that I please needed him to give me some space from it. NOPE. Just anger towards me. And of course the more he lashed out at me the more withdrawn and sad, and closed up and overwhelmed and frozen and exhausted I became.

That I could talk about my feelings to others, but I couldn't talk about them to him. It always became a lecture from him, or criticism, or talking about how my emotions were wrong, or hurting him. Whereas he would never take accountability for his own!

It's good for someone to vent about their feelings! But he was ruminating- on repeat focused on the negative. And he did it in a way that was unsafe for me- left me on edge, walking on eggshells, drained. And it happened too often for me. Also he could "only trust me" with his insecurities. He wasn't talking to anyone else about them. He needed a therapist but was using me. A therapist has very different boundaries. It was unhealthy.

I hope this helps! I do struggle with allowing myself to honor my feelings, and feeling like a burden on others when I do. I'm grateful to this forum for creating this space to process and share with others in ways that might be of benefit to others (I hope!).

[Insom]

Would it be fair to say you had a relationship where she seemed to feel safe expressing her feelings while you played a more supportive role?

I could talk about my feelings to others, but I couldn't talk about them to him.

Like tin (above) I can relate very much with what if feels like to have one-way relationships (where the support goes in one direction).

Can you think of other relationships you've been in where this was (or is) the case?  Where you've felt valued as a supporter/advisor/listener but not "allowed" to have needs and feelings of your own?

[CryWolf]

Tin did a wonderful job writing those thoughts to words and displaying them. I can relate with Tin very much. 

Id like to echo Insom here and ask, do your feelings or words get invalidated or disregarded in other relationships outside of romantic one? Such as boss, coworkers, family?

[Cromwell]

Also he could "only trust me" with his insecurities. He wasn't talking to anyone else about them. He needed a therapist but was using me. A therapist has very different boundaries. It was unhealthy.

I hope this helps! I do struggle with allowing myself to honor my feelings, and feeling like a burden on others when I do. I'm grateful to this forum for creating this space to process and share with others in ways that might be of benefit to others (I hope!).

It helps very much tin, it echos something I actually said her awhile back. I feel like I took on the role of amateur therapist. To an extent, its going to be like that in relationships but this was almost a daily form of role. On the one hand it felt nice to be told things like "I never cry, only in front of you" or "you are one of the very few people I trust".

But it became very much one sided, I think I did a great job nonetheless, basically just listened but with genuine care and empathy. Yet in some ways when I reciprocated, and I did trust her with some very deep feelings and got more enmeshed as a result, when she painted me black - forget about Therapist Guidelines and professional practice, she spread all my personal feelings to third partys when it came time to smear campaign.

My ex did have a therapist, but all she ever told me was how much she enjoyed trying to manipulate her alongside her doctor. Should have been another major red flag, but I was stupid enough to believe that she saw the world as distrustful and against her, but i was special and held the chance of saving her alone. Maybe that feeling did exist - but when it wears off, i just became the whipping-boy from frustrations she had way before id ever met her, or been responsible for. i think, it took a very long time to not take the things she said as personally as I did at the time.

[CryWolf]

but I was stupid enough to believe that she saw the world as distrustful and against her, but i was special and held the chance of saving her alone. Maybe that feeling did exist - but when it wears off, i just became the whipping-boy from frustrations she had way before id ever met her, or been responsible for. i think, it took a very long time to not take the things she said as personally as I did at the time.

hey buddy, you are too hard on yourself. majority of us here fell into the saviour/ white knight role.

You did the best you could with the information presented to you. What do you think?

[Cromwell]

hey buddy, you are too hard on yourself. majority of us here fell into the saviour/ white knight role.

You did the best you could with the information presented to you. What do you think?

Thanks CryWolf, I do look back and know that I did the best I could, I also know not to be too hard on myself, things could have been 100 times worse based on my actions, I think I did pretty well considering I was a proverbial babe in the wood, not knowing a thing about her condition, or her as it turns out.

I think I wanted to protect her CryWolf, whilst I was strong enough to endure the hurt she could dish out, I really believed that she couldnt handle to get to know my real deep emotions. There were times I tried and I could tell that she wouldnt be able to. The thing is, it becomes a very one sided relationship where you are fulfilling the partners needs but shelving your own. Instead I talked to friends and family, they got sick of it, and rightfully so - their attitude was "why on earth are you still with her"?

It hurts a bit more that not only did I ignore so many red flags myself, but there were so many people that I didnt trust to listen to, and they all tried to help me out back then. But love is blind, I could have came to this forum and be told the same, I would have just logged out and not came back, such was the heightened emotions of being with her when it was good, I didnt want anyone to take that away, even if what they said and what I believed inside was completely correct.

[WindofChange]

Cromwell and Tin, I relate so much to what you've said in this thread. Tin, the victim thing especially. For my ex, every time something went wrong in his life, such as losing a job, or a family member who passed away, God or The Universe was doing it to him. He felt that he was hated by a higher power who was out to get him. This isn't a religious post, but just an illustration of his mindset. On a more personal, relationship level, he would lash out at me for old issues from over 5 years ago, would never let them go. That was his trump card, any time I brought up something I was upset or concerned about. He'd always flip things around on me. He would never take responsibility for any wrongdoing of his. Tin, I felt the same way after a while, like I was walking on eggshells. I tried hard to avoid any conflict, and like you, I became quiet, closed up, withdrawn, anxious around him. Cromwell, I told him many times I was tired of being his whipping-girl every time he was upset about something. (Eventually I told him I was done, but it took a long time.)
It definitely became one-sided. It was me being the counselor, trying to comfort and help him get better. But when I was sad or upset, I got very little in return. Maybe an off-hand suggestion, but little comfort or encouragement. Cromwell, I think many of us felt the same way about being their rescuer. I wanted to heal the broken little boy inside him, and it was very, very hard to realize that I couldn't do it, no matter how much I loved him.
Cromwell, I had friends and family who also asked me why I continued to put up with such bad treatment, but like you said, love is blind. That bond was so intense. I was convinced if I just tried hard enough, if he just sought regular counseling, if I just stuck it out long enough and kept loving him, things would get better. He would get better and we'd be happy again. But... .we all know how that works out.

[WindofChange]

Hope my last post wasn't too long-winded. The point I wanted to make was that I think most of us ignored the red flags, most of us, as CryWolf said, tried to be the savior, and we ultimately ended up being primarily the givers, in the end getting little in return. Not because they didn't love us, but they just weren't capable of any more than that at this stage in their lives with all of their issues. For my ex, I hope and pray he stays with his current therapist and gets better. That's all I can do for him, all I will do at this point.

[CryWolf]

Thanks CryWolf, I do look back and know that I did the best I could, I also know not to be too hard on myself, things could have been 100 times worse based on my actions, I think I did pretty well considering I was a proverbial babe in the wood, not knowing a thing about her condition, or her as it turns out.

I think I wanted to protect her CryWolf, whilst I was strong enough to endure the hurt she could dish out, I really believed that she couldnt handle to get to know my real deep emotions. There were times I tried and I could tell that she wouldnt be able to. The thing is, it becomes a very one sided relationship where you are fulfilling the partners needs but shelving your own. Instead I talked to friends and family, they got sick of it, and rightfully so - their attitude was "why on earth are you still with her"?

It hurts a bit more that not only did I ignore so many red flags myself, but there were so many people that I didnt trust to listen to, and they all tried to help me out back then. But love is blind, I could have came to this forum and be told the same, I would have just logged out and not came back, such was the heightened emotions of being with her when it was good, I didnt want anyone to take that away, even if what they said and what I believed inside was completely correct.

Wow this was exactly if not very similar as I went through. I put my feelings, desires, wants aside and put her first. I became patient, and im very patient. You put them first, and then dont know how to put yourself first anymore. Everything becomes about them. This is normal with relationships with these dynamics. My therapist said, it is the perfect storm.

I would talk to everyone, and anyone for their opinion and advice. Yet, I would never listen. I had hope, and saw the good in her and justified it all. But, thats not love. You dont tolerate abuse no matter how big or small. Never. So many people told me to leave, and put myself first. I lost so many people who got tired of seeing me not listen and continue to hurt myself.

[Roler]

... .it happened because I didnt feel safe to "vent" emotion when I had issues with her. Yet by not venting, these emotions didnt get rationalised away except for transiently. Its part of the reason ive learned its taken me so long post-relationship to have to play "catch up" with them all... .

I think the "unsafe" feeling in venting your own emotions in a relationship with a pwBPDtraits is one of the key things that will eventually contribute to you feeling this is a one way relationship and will go at the cost of your emotional wellbeing.
I recall quite clearly one time during my involvement with her, that I indicated it was me who needed a bit of support in a certain situation, emotionally. She really seemed to try her best and yet seemed to struggle so much with the fact that it was now me who had expressed some distress and needed her to be there for me.
I think it was confronting for herself to see she just couldn't handle that, on top of her own struggles and neediness emotionally. She also had said she didn't know how to support me. I explained that just listening and acknowledging sometimes was enough. It was an eyeopener at the time in recognising that she would likely never really be capable of giving any substantial support if I was to need it. She would often say "now that you explained, I understand how you see it", but it would be the same all over on the first following occasion.

[Cromwell]

Roler, a lot of what attracted me to my ex was the 'belief' that she was so in sync with my emotions and thoughts, it was part of the mirroring guise that I fell for. I could feel completely relaxed and indifferent of all the problems in the world (initially) with her. A bit like what Wicker Man stated, a feeling of solace just being in her presence, it was emotionally comforting.

However, when the antics and craziness started, she easily replaced all the 'problems' I had, to become the problem. As well as the solution. She became a double edged sword in my life. Perhaps you never got to that stage but I think my own intuition told me she wasnt anymore the woman i could feel safe at being open with anymore. It all pivots around trust, and I think with this breach of your medical records, surreptitiously, id personally take that as an early warning signal of the possibilty of more encroachment.

The infidelity happened 3 months in, the start of the intrusion into my private life, spying etc started about 2 years in. Quite a time span but im sure there was stuff she was doing in that time that im not aware of yet. I guess her paranoia peaked after I slept with her friends (we had momentary split up, I didnt cheat as such).

Once the trust is gone, for me, everything is gone. Im not going to open up to someone who I cant trust wont use my personal feelings against me whenever they choose to paint me black for the day.

Did you get any response from her about the email?

[DogMan75]

She would often say "now that you explained, I understand how you see it", but it would be the same all over on the first following occasion.

So familiar.

There were occasions where I could talk her down eventually, then she’d say something like this and I thought we’d gotten somewhere.

We’d go to bed, wake up, and she’d start again like we’d never resolved it. She couldn’t retain it for a single day.

[Roler]

Did you get any response from her about the email?

Yes I did. But I'll use my thread for that when I can find some.e time soon

[RomanticFool]

Cromwell,

I recognise this, except I didn’t always bottle things up. I often told her how I felt and it usually resulted in her crying and accusing me of shouting or being abusive. I was never abusive with her face to face and certainly never shouted, but she heard my exasperation as exactly this.

One time I got stuck on a train for a few hours as somebody had sadly jumped under it. I kept in contact with my ex and she kept asking if I was going to make it. I told her I would and she said she would go shopping until the train came in. I asked her to meet me at the hotel then as I didn’t know what time I’d be there. She baulked at this and told me just to tell her when the train was coming in. I said I didn’t want to wait around for her to finish shopping and it was better to meet at the hotel. When I got there she was crying and said I had been abusive to her in the text. I told her that I had simply been trying to make practical arrangements.

Another time I met up with her and she was coming down to have a tattoo done. She was incredibly excited and asked me to come with her. The tattooist was touching her in intimate places and I got a bit jealous. I simply said I was going upstairs to get some air, trying to disguise how I felt. She came out and demanded to know what was wrong. I stupidly told her the truth, calmly and said I was aware it was my issue. She then totally attacked me and called me a jealous idiot and said I was ‘disgusting.’ I reminded that I hadn’t seen her for some time and my idea of a date wasn’t watching a tattooist paw her in intimate places. She broke down in tears and got the train home. On both occasions I apologised and had to do the making up. I had a part to play in both of these disagreements but it was typical of my ex to escalate rather than try to understand. Some of the time I would not say anything for fear of triggering her drama. On both of the occasions above my actions were dictated by simply being so keen to see her and spend time with her, I didn’t want anything getting in the way. She never understood this and took anything I said as personal criticism or me being unreasonable.

[mama-wolf]

I found so very much to relate to in nearly every single post of this thread, I couldn't help but add my own thoughts and experience.

As with so many others here, my uBPDw would look to me to be her sole source of emotional support throughout our 15 year relationship.  She did it for so long, and I was inundated with so much negativity about each and every slight, insult, bad experience, hurt feeling, etc. that it eventually left me utterly drained.   And it would be the same things over and over again, too, with no appreciable effort made on her part to move past things or make any changes.  Constant negativity and criticism directed at the world in general.

In the beginning (as I have discussed with my T), she didn't do it quite so much and it didn't bother me or take as much from me due to us both having more capacity and energy when we were younger.  We didn't have kids yet, and were not yet dealing with the mounting pressures of adulthood, so it didn't raise the red flags and didn't cause so much damage.  And yes, I naturally fell into the role of protector, nurturer, pillar of support.  That's what you do in a relationship, right?  Until that's all you do in the relationship, and it's not reciprocated.

Over time, both of us found our capacity taken up by more and more things... .kids, increasing professional responsibilities, finances, the usual.  So she looked to me more, needed more from me, and I had less and less to give freely, but I still gave all I had and more.  Which then started to eat away at my own emotional well-being.

And at the same time, she increased her demands that I open up more to her, lean on her more.  But I just couldn't.  Though I wasn't as aware of it as I am today, I already struggled with understanding or connecting fully with my own emotions, which made it hard enough to even know what I needed... .much less have any ability to ask for it.  And as much as she used me up, I had already come to see that she would never be able to give me the kind of support that she demanded the opportunity to give.  Times that I had opened up to her or shared fears with her had either already become or subsequently turned into arguments, and those feelings were turned against me or they were dismissed as "just not as important to [her] as they were to [me]." 

So there was no emotional safety for me to even express how I was feeling, and I had no trust in her to be able to offer any support even if I did.  And even once this was identified in couples therapy, she made no efforts to rebuild or repair that trust and safety.  Just begrudgingly tried to wait out my emotional burnout while figuratively tapping her foot with impatience, waiting for me to get over it and be able to support her again the way I had been for years.

And now that we are formally separated (three weeks as of tomorrow), I'm even more cut off from my own emotions, and it's a bigger struggle than ever to even consider opening up to anyone.  Pretty normal given the circumstances, I suppose, but a hard thing to overcome for sure.

mw