Significant Other's uBPDxw same old same old - am I off base

[Panda39]

Hi all,

It's been awhile since I've needed to post on the co-parenting board, my SO's daughters have had minimal contact with their mother so things have been pretty quiet.

But here I am again, I'm not surprised and dad isn't surprised, and yet here we are. 

My SO's uBPDxw's MO is doing things without paying for them... .Yay!(says the Panda sarcastically) She has even been convicted of fraud and had a years probation... .Yay! (Says the Panda even more sarcastically)

She is not only doing things and not paying for them but putting her children in those situations, I think her logic (if there is any) is that if the kid is there for the service, whatever it is, the person providing it that hasn't been paid will feel sorry for the kid, provide the service, and mom will never have to pay, the kid gets what they want and mom looks like supermom.  Meanwhile the poor slob that provides the service is left never being paid.

She does this over and over... .wash, rinse, repeat... .the two biggest instances are the reason why D22 is no contact with her mother and why D17 is low contact with her mother and both live with dad full-time (by choice).

D22 (18 at the time) went off to a private very expensive college on the assurance that her mother's "Family Trust" would cover tuition that was not covered by financial aid.  D18 is not stupid so she asked for proof and was provided documentation that looked real.  Dad told her there was no trust, but D18 was legally able to make her own decision.  She wanted to go, she wanted to believe her mother, her mother may con other people but she was her daughter, she would never do that to her.  Wrong.  D18 came home for Christmas break was asked to pay for the previous semester or don't come back.  Well she couldn't pay.  That first semester she was an honor student and now the school was refusing to release her transcript due to lack of payment.  D18 was back to square one and in debt to the tune of $15,000... .she learned the lesson... .don't ever trust her mother when it comes to anything financial... .she was burned so badly she doesn't trust her mother at all.

D17 (14 at the time) was sent out of state to camp on a one-way ticket, only there wasn't any camp.  Dad thought she was at camp, I thought she was at camp until 4 days later when D14 called to tell us (her mother instructed her not to tell her father where she was) she was in fact near camp staying with the elderly parent of one of mom's childhood friends.  Mom telling this lady that she was working on paying for camp, that she would send the lady the money and she could pay camp, all garbage, all lies.  It took her father, her grandfather, and her uncle to get D14 back home.  This daughter suffers from PTSD this was the last thing she needed.  But if mom could get her there, then camp would surly feel obligated to take her in right, wrong especially when you didn't pay for the same camp the year before. 

D17 went low contact with her mom.

D17 is a 17 year old girl that wants the things her friends have.  They live in an affluent suburb, but their dad is a single dad taking care of both daughters with no financial help from their mother, so money is tight and needs come before wants.  D17 has accepted an IPhone from her mother, that frequently has delays in payment so D17 has periods of no phone service. (D17 went without phone survice for 2 weeks the beginning of August - I suspect as punishment for going on a family vacation that included me and my son) D17 has accepted the phone and the strings that come with it 24/7 access to her via phone/text by her mother and service cut as punishment.  She has chosen this so she can have the IPhone, because the IPhone makes her feel better about herself, because she thinks things define her worth. ( I wish this wasn't so... .part of it is being a 17 year old and part of it IMO is lack of self-esteem)  She could have an Android phone through her dad, but no.

This leads me up to yesterday.  D17 is a senior in High School this year and needs her Senior photo for the yearbook.  She wanted to hire a professional photographer and have her glamour shot photo shoot.  Well dad can't shell out the couple of hundred bucks for this.  He offered to take her pictures, and suggested she and her friends make it a day and take each other's pictures.   But no she had to have the photographer, so she went to her mother .  Mom set up a photography shoot yesterday.  Dad was fine as long as mom paid for it.  Dad asked the Photographer if everything was taken care of and he said yes.  So off they go D17 and dad to get her pictures taken.  Well, surprise (not so much)... .mom has in fact not paid for the pictures.  The photographer has taken the pictures with the promise of payment from mom.

Now we get to where the Panda needs an opinion, with the caveat that is stuff triggers me... .I am very financially responsible, and I would never do this to my kid... .this pushes both of these buttons.

This is how I would handle this... .

Dad does not offer to pay... .Stay off the triangle... .do not rescue... .not his responsibility.

If mom does not pay, I think D17 (who has a job) should pay for it.

Why, because the services were hers, her paying is the natural consequence of taking this service that wasn't paid for and trusting an untrustworthy mother.  This will hit D17 where it hurts... .her wallet... .no more lunches out with friends or Starbucks for a little while.  She gets her photos that she just had to have.

Am I off base with this?  Am I punishing D17 for her mother's behaviors?

I want D17 to learn to stop putting her trust in her mother financially (this is where her mother is dangerous) I want her to also understand that we don't take things without paying for them, and that sometimes in this life you do not get everything you want, or if you really want something you save up for it yourself.

As an aside, I wish she would stop comparing herself and what she has or doesn't have with other people... .I wish she would understand that stuff doesn't define her.  Hopefully as she matures she will figure this out.

So BPD Family members, I'm looking for outside opinions, suggestions and other points of view.

What do you think about the "Case of the Unpaid Photographer"?

Panda39

[livednlearned]

I remember all those stories, Panda39, including the pandemonium when SD17 was marooned out of state. Amazing that was 3 years ago!

Do you and SO have the kind of relationship where you two discipline the girls together? If I remember correctly, you two seemed to be on the same page about money boundaries?

If it were me and my kid, I would recognize that I didn't set an explicit boundary (S17 does better when the rules are explicit). I would tell him, "Your dad has a history with money that I don't think needs explaining. I wish I had been more explicit about what I was prepared to do if he didn't pay for something. That's my mistake and I've learned from it. My values are that I don't reward poor management of money. What I will do is help you reach your financial goals. You want these photos, they're done, and dad isn't paying for them. Why don't you take some time to figure out what you can immediately pay for the photos, how you'll be able to make up the difference, including how much you would need to borrow from me. We can work out a payment plan, or come up with paid jobs and a schedule for getting them done."

Something solution-oriented, where he was still being held responsible without completely hosing him  

[livednlearned]

Also.

I totally understand the step parent angle/issue here.

SD23 and H have a money dynamic that is really hard for me to watch.

H has a good handle on what's wrong in the dynamic, but is pretty inconsistent in how he implements his boundaries.

I have become concise in how I comment because at this point it's his row to hoe.

He set a money boundary when SD23 moved in that led to a major meltdown that was awful to witness and flooded the house with drama. Long story short, their money issues need to get worked out with a therapist because they are deeply tangled up with BPD mom dynamics. And I will not be triangulated into that.

My boundaries are pretty watertight when it comes to money and SD23. I love her dearly. When it comes to money, I refuse to be used. When it comes to boundaries and talking about SD23's money issues with H, if I don't get a say in how things are handled, I let him know how much bandwidth I have to listen. It's not fair to me and it only makes me aggravated if we aren't approaching a money issue with her together.

That, and there is this yucky feeling I get when SD23 tries to sort out what's right and wrong in handling money. She talks about money more than anyone I know, and it tries my patience. Entitlement is tough to abide in someone you love. I can't really address that in a skillful way, so I will listen and when I've had enough, I change the topic or go do something else.

[GaGrl]

Panda, before I had even gotten to your thought that D17 should pay for the photos herself, I was there.  Yes, that is exactly what needs to happen.

Like LnL, I have had to step back from the financials that involve my stepdaughter.  DH's ex has a history of using financials to control their daughter, and SD is an adult now and knows it.  And still she gets caught.  The latest was several years ago when SD had gotten into a weekend business of reselling estate and garage sales purchases at a flea market, and she needed a van to transport her merchandise each week.  Ex suggested that she and DH go halfsies to buy SD an appropriate second-hand van, which they did.  Eighteen months later, Ex informs SD that her half of the van wasn't a gift (as was DH's contribution) -- rather, it was a loan, and SD needed to pay her $1600.  Stung again.

So, stepping back and letting them all figure out financial consequences is best.

[Panda39]

Thanks ladies,

SO and are pretty close to the same page, he wants to pitch in a small portion of the money.  Ultimately, this is his daughter and the decision will be his and it's his money.  We just bounce these things off of each other. I tend to be a more black and white thinker than my SO, we usually strike a nice balance when we work together.

I suggested that if he takes the "he pays part" approach, that he make it very clear that if D17 makes another "deal" like this with mom and it falls through that the full financial responsibility will be hers... .so something closer to what LnL suggests with an "explicit rule", ahead of another one of these situations.

I guess since I'm a bit triggered I just want to be sure that my suggestions aren't completely out of whack. So I'm checking in with the BPD Family Communal Mind   

Thank you for your feedback 

Panda39