Response to Ex's Attempt at Controlling Me

[I_Am_The_Fire]

This seems a little silly to me. I thought I'd ask for your opinions anyway.

Recently my ex (uBPD\NPD) sent me a message that he is going to let our D12 wear makeup. He then proceeded to tell me that I'm not allowed to take it away from her when she's at my house.

Personally, I don't really care if she wears makeup at this point or not. The only thing I wrote back was that "you can do whatever you want in your house. You cannot dictate to me what I do in my house." I left it at that.

He is a very controlling and manipulative person. It's one of the reasons I divorced him. I know this can be a trigger for me and I'm working on it.

What do you think? Was there a better way of handling that? Should I have just ignored it and not replied?

[once removed]

did he say "youre not allowed to take it away from her when shes at your house"?

[MeandThee29]

With mine, less is more. He likes to stir up conflict because he can increase his contempt of me and feel more powerful.

If it was my daughter, I'd let it slide.

[I_Am_The_Fire]

once removed, his actual words were "you are not to take it away from her when she's at your house".

MeandThee29, he's like that too. More than likely that's what he's trying to do. It probably is better to just ignore it.

Thanks

[Turkish]

That's a valid and firm response. 

I'd be more concerned why he's so concerned about this particular thing. 

[I_Am_The_Fire]

Turkish, based on what I know about him and past experience, I'm guessing he (1) wants to be first at something and (2) it's a control thing with him. 

Once my fiance and I took the girls mini golfing. My ex got super upset because he had wanted to be the first to take them mini golfing. At that time, I had no idea it was that important to him. So this kind of thing has happened before. He's also tried many times to tell me what I should be doing or not doing in my house. I usually ignore it when he tries that or I'll just simply write that I disagree and leave it at that. He seems to believe that co-parenting means he gets to tell me what to do. It's probably double standards, hypocrisy, inferiority complex, etc.

[Turkish]

That makes sense given the core feelings of a pwBPD and shame (not good enough, unlovable).

Maybe you can ask him to send you a list of "firsts" he wants to do so you can alter your home and lives around it.   

I'm big on "don't ask, don't tell" with a lot of things.  I've not dealt with the specific thing you're dealing with, but I love being free from her anxiety (of which she's diagnosed) when I'm with the kids.  The kids like it to and they adjust accordingly.

She tried for months to get me to bring water bottles for them at the dojo.  I refused. "That's why there's a drinking fountain right over there."

When we did an exchange at a park near my home recently, she got scared and told me not to swing D6 so high in the chair (rather than a normal swing where she might have a valid point that a kid could fall out). D kept laughing and going "higher daddy!" Ignoring her mom.  I said I've been taking them here for 5 years by myself and this is how we play." I said it a little nicer than that. 

[I_Am_The_Fire]

I actually did ask him for a list of "firsts" a while ago. He never did produce a list. 

It sounds like you're doing really well in that area. I'm really glad to hear that. It gives me hope.  

[Insom]

I actually did ask him for a list of "firsts" a while ago. He never did produce a list. 

He may not know it 'til he feels it which firsts are going to get under his skin.  And it could be simply the fact that you did something with your girls that sounds like fun . . . which you can't do anything about. 

I'm with Turkish, the response you made sounds valid and firm. 

How are things going this week between you and D12?  Did the makeup pronouncement have an impact or is it water under the bridge?  How are you feeling?

[I_Am_The_Fire]

Sorry I haven't replied in a while. Things have been a bit stressful at work. That's a separate long story.

Since his "demand", it's been quiet in that area for the most part. Recently I found out that she's been using makeup at daycare and left it there. I don't know if she intentionally or unintentionally left it there. When I pick her up from daycare, she hasn't had any makeup on that I can see. So I told her that I really don't care if she wears makeup and that I just want her to know that if she does wear it, she doesn't have to hide it from me and so on. She seemed a bit surprised. So I wouldn't be surprised if her dad had told her to not take it to my house because I'd take it away from her or something like that. I'm not sure if it's even worth looking into that part of it. In the past, I never forbade her to wear makeup. I simply told her I didn't think she was ready and I didn't want to buy her any just yet. That was it. So we'll see what happens.  

How am I feeling? That's been a bit hard to figure out lately. There's a lot going on. Life happens, right?   In regards to this topic, though... .I feel a bit paranoid I suppose. In that, who knows what he's been telling her. He seems to assume a lot about what I would do or say about something. He's usually wrong. He's also been awfully quiet lately. That's a good thing. I'm usually waiting for something to set him off. I'm trying to not worry about it, especially with school recently starting. I also feel like this whole topic got blown out of proportion.  I feel offended/insulted he assumed I would take the makeup away from her (he's probably projecting) and I feel a bit angry at times that he still tries to control what I do (I know that will probably never change). I think I'm getting better at figuring out when to say something (it feels good to stand up for myself) and when to let it go (not engaging in a battle with him). It does bother me a bit that she may have been hiding the makeup from me. I think I handled it fine, though. Time will tell I guess.

[kells76]

Hi IATF;

Based on what you've posted about your D's dad, that seems like a reasonable response.

Who do you think actually bought the makeup? Him or D12?

Sometimes when I take the kids to the hippie market here, they try some glittery eyeshadow that's for sale there. D12 left it on for a while and took it off back at home. She's a perfectionist and felt like she "didn't put it on right". I told her it was a fun color and that it was fine to try. Added that it was possible that there might be some future situation where DH or I have her not wear certain makeup, but we'd let her know.

D10 actually used her allowance to buy some, but lost it the next day. She's much more into drawing on her body/"makeup" than D12 at this point. Once she gets better at remembering stuff she might be more of a handful around the makeup issue. I sense a lot of tattoos in her future... .

After the kids tried the eyeshadow, I emailed their mom to give her a heads up. She said she's "never had a problem with it" at their house, which is not exactly what I remember, but oh well.

[MeandThee29]

How am I feeling? That's been a bit hard to figure out lately. There's a lot going on. Life happens, right?   In regards to this topic, though... .I feel a bit paranoid I suppose. In that, who knows what he's been telling her. He seems to assume a lot about what I would do or say about something. He's usually wrong. He's also been awfully quiet lately. That's a good thing. I'm usually waiting for something to set him off. I'm trying to not worry about it, especially with school recently starting. I also feel like this whole topic got blown out of proportion.  I feel offended/insulted he assumed I would take the makeup away from her (he's probably projecting) and I feel a bit angry at times that he still tries to control what I do (I know that will probably never change). I think I'm getting better at figuring out when to say something (it feels good to stand up for myself) and when to let it go (not engaging in a battle with him). It does bother me a bit that she may have been hiding the makeup from me. I think I handled it fine, though. Time will tell I guess.

Yes, walking the eggshells. I hear you. I started a new job this week along with the beginning of the semester (I'm a part-time professor), and I'm edgy all right. Hopefully we can balance it all!

[I_Am_The_Fire]

kells76... Thanks! He told me that she received the makeup as a Christmas present and that he was going to have someone who knows what they're doing with makeup teach her how to put it on. Probably his sister which is fine, IMO.

MeandThee29... Starting a new job would make me edgy too! I hope it goes well. I think with time and patience we'll learn to balance it all.  

[livednlearned]

Should I have just ignored it and not replied?

My ex was controlling too. He bought a chromebook for our son one year along with two pages of commands for me, including not doing things to the computer I didn't even know you could do.

A lot of the time, there is a BPD wave of emotion that shoots up quickly and takes a long time to return to baseline. I figured any message I received was probably sent when ex was struggling with some strong emotions, and assumed it was best to let him slowly return to baseline. If he really cared about something, chances are the topic would stick.

9 times out of 10 things didn't stick. It was a moment of intense emotion relieved by some kind of clumsy grab for control. I took it way too seriously in the beginning and it just exhausted me.

Your ex probably has a similar pattern that will become more clear over time. People with BPD get really deep in the weeds and lose sight of the big picture, the 30 000 foot view. You likely have better emotional regulation so you aren't as susceptible to the weeds.

Demanding you do something in your house is a weed issue.

The more important thing is that he alerted you to a conversation or issue with D12. "Dad mentioned you wanted to wear make-up. Do you have any questions for me?" Or something to make sure she isn't assigning dad's disordered cognitive distortions to you.

If she is forthcoming, "Yeah, dad says you'll take it away." Then I'd follow up with validation. "That must've made you feel kinda bad about me. Why do you think your dad said that?"

That last bit was the hardest for me. Learning to not defend my actions without first allowing my son to reflect on why his dad might do or say xyz.

It is now pretty automatic for him to ask and answer for himself why his dad does what he does, and how he feels about it, without any prompting from me.

[I_Am_The_Fire]

livednlearned... thank you! I agree.   It is easy to get lost in the weeds at times. I'm practicing at stepping back and looking at the big picture. With everything else, it'll probably just take time and practice for me. Thank you for the example!  

I'm also getting better at not responding to most of his emotional messages. It usually blows over eventually. Such as when he was insistent that I owed him more alimony when it's clear (via the divorce papers) that I don't. He also thought he could change the child support money he owes me without going through the court system. He felt he shouldn't have to pay it if he didn't want to. It's state ordered! I disagreed with him once (with my proof) and let it go after that basically telling him that if he's serious about it then he can have his attorney contact my attorney. After that, I stopped answering those messages and he eventually stopped bringing it up.

In hindsight, I believe he is hurting for more money as he just made several large purchases. When we were together, he got upset a lot that he wasn't making more money because he felt he should make what I'm making or more even though the industry he works in doesn't pay a lot. Mine does. He was also jealous of his relatives who were doing better off than he was. I wonder if he has an emotional tie (security?) to wealth and possessions. That and maybe "retail therapy ". He loves shiny new toys. The more expensive, the better. It probably gives him an emotional high but doesn't satisfy. So he keeps buying more and more. When he can't afford something, I wonder if he feels inner shame and then he goes after me.

[ForeverDad]

I'm assuming he's not likely to try to take her shopping for her first bra?

Disclaimer: Bras didn't exist, so I'm told, until about a century ago.  Maybe they came into fashion when corsets went out of fashion?  There were PDs throughout history but evidently not every kind of clothing.

[I_Am_The_Fire]

According to my daughter, his mother and sister bought her some bras. So no. He didn't / won't take her bra shopping. It could be he and/or she feels uncomfortable about it. *shrug*