Material Possessions of BPD npd - Please share if you've experienced similar

[peachtree487]

Hello,

Until I learned about BPD, npd, etc., I always wondered why my uBPD mother was always so protective of her material possessions. Also, until I understood, I sometimes did not know that things that have happened throughout the years were about her possessions themselves, but instead,  I thought she just didn't trust me with her possessions, or that she thought I was stupid or that she thought I was such a bad person that I would actually want to 'break', her things.

Until recently, I would've never considered my mother as being narcissistic, and I'm still not sure if it's BPD or npd that she sufferes from. One reason why I used to think she was the opposite of a narcissist is because she is so giving to her kids & grandkids, always buying stuff for everyone. But even before I learned about BPD & npd, I had the impression that she bought stuff and helped us all out when we needed money for the wrong reasons - my grandfather, her dad, was very much like that : if you accepted money from him, you were locked in & expected to visit, etc. I felt like it was the only way the she thought she could show her love. But if someone needed something from her, there were strings attached, sometimes those strings put others in a no win situation.

Has anyone else had the same or similar experience?

 Or does anyone have a link to an article about what material possessions mean to someone with BPD & npd ?

After learning about npd & BPD, and realizing how awful life is for someone with it, I feel sad for my mother, and I believe her heart is in the right place, but I also know that she will probably never allow herself to see or understand her condition.

One of the first things I remember, of how my mom was with her possessions,  as a child, was when my sister & I decided to take a look at, and open my moms Cover Girl foundation makeup in the early 70s. We did not put it on, only looked at the bottle, opened, & smelled it, despite her telling us that it was "not for little girls" and to never touch it. She caught us with the lid off, and raged - this memory is as strong in my mind as if it happened last week, but it was over 40 years ago, we were about 6 or 7 yrs old. I remrmber her reaction was way over the top, and her saying, "That is mine! I can't ever have anything because of you girls" She did not explain why we shouldn't touch it for health reasons, or maybe that the bottle might break and cut us, she went on & on about it being hers, not ours. And we did not ruin it or pour it out, all that rage over something that might've cost less than a buck or two back then?

As we got older, things got way more complicated - throughout the years, she has not trusted any family members with her things, and for some reason thinks that everyone is out to rob or steal from her, and accused me of things she THOUGHT I MIGHT do, like breaking into her house, saying she was afraid to leave my husband & I in her house when she wasn't there for fear that she would "come home and all of her furniture & anything worth something would be gone". I was so hurt to hear her say that, and I even told her that I have never, and would never steal anything, much less from a family member! I told her that I would protect her belongings and value them as if they were my own, but it did not help.

Once when we were visiting her, I offered to vacuum for her - keep in mind that she should know what a meticulous housekeeper I am, and I'm someone who is smart enough to know how to use various machines & eqipment, and it started a rage in her. I didn't know this, but she had recently bought a new vacuum cleaner - she accused me of finding this new vacuum that she hid somewhere in her bedroom, I didn't even know it existed! She said, "That vacuum is only for ME to use, noone else, I don't want it broken", and raged about how she thought I purposely wanted to break her new vacuum - all because I was trying to be helpful, knowing she had a sore foot, and might appreciate me doing some housework.

Sometimes her worries about her possessions would get even more complicated, like when she was on vacation, she was worried about her pool over flowing, etc, and accused my grandmother & I of trying to let water out of it, then later when the pump broke, she accused us of the cause. All because we had offered to check on her pool while she was gone, because in the past, she asked us to do this, but this time she did not want us to, so we didn't, but still were accused of breaking the pump. It gets more complicated & hurtful whdn she tells other close family members that we purposely did this. Once, she told my son & his wife that she was afraid I would break into her house because I had done it before! Which is totally untrue! My sons wife (being the nice person she is)  told me that maybe my mom was referring to sometime that I forgot about, when maybe I needed to get inside for an emergency or something. But it did not happen, and it really hurt me that my mom put my son & his wife in the middle where they had to know that one of us was lying, without the understanding that people with BPD or npd can literally believe their fears to be true.

Recently while on the phone with her, she was away on vacation and I mentioned all the rain we were getting (I live about an hour away from her), and in front of many other family members who were with her in a vehicle, she yelled, replying to me, "LEAVE MY POOL ALONE",  which I'm sure, to my family with her who could only hear her side of our conversation, it sounds like to them that I am actually there at her house, messing with her pool, due to her tone. A lot of times, my moms fears become reality to her. Now, I'm sure that my family members who are vacationing with her are going to hear her constantly worrying and thinking that my goal in life, while she's away, is to drive to her house an hour away, and to damage her pool. I really hope that her pool is in the same condition she left it in when she gets back, or I will be blamed, even if a tree was to fall on it.

My grandmother told me, in the past after my mom blamed us for something we did not do, to never offer and to never accept to watch my moms pool or house while she's on vacation. She also said, "We will get blamed for something that might happen, either way".

I'd like to know if others have experienced this, and how you might've handled it. Thank You.

[zachira]

Sorry to hear you are experiencing this. My mother has BPD and NPD, and her life is all about money and material goods. She has no empathy, and only knows how to relate to what she owns. I feel so sorry for her, and I am in so much pain because I will never be acknowledged as a separate worthy person from my mother. Keep us posted on how you are doing. It is all so sad and painful for those of us who have a mother with serious challenges with mental illnesses especially BPD and NPD.

[naturalturn]

Sorry to hear you are experiencing this. My mother has BPD and NPD, and her life is all about money and material goods. She has no empathy, and only knows how to relate to what she owns. I feel so sorry for her, and I am in so much pain because I will never be acknowledged as a separate worthy person from my mother. Keep us posted on how you are doing. It is all so sad and painful for those of us who have a mother with serious challenges with mental illnesses especially BPD and NPD.

My mother is the same way. She is so consumed with what brands she is wearing, what kind of car she is driving (she once told me "I will only drive German cars"), what part of town she is living in, how many diamonds she is wearing, etc... .She is so vain and spends so much money on botox, fillers, and any other treatment or laser the dermatologists want to sell her. She spends money on all these luxury items even though she complains all the time how she is in $400,000 of debt. She turns her nose up at me when my roots are showing and when I don't have full makeup on. Drives me nuts.

I feel the same as you about struggling to feel like a worthy person separate from her... .

[Harri]

Hi peachtree, it is good to see you again.

I am not sure exactly what is going on with your mom and her love of material things.  I think there may be several things going on. 

First, people with BPD have a very limited sense of Self and who they are on their own and look outside of themselves for some identity.  Sometimes they look to other people and sometimes they will use their possessions to feel good or important.  A lot of their behaviors are fear/anxiety driven and it sounds like that may be driving a lot of what you describe here.   The thing to remember though is that rather than face their feelings (fear, sadness, etc) they can't handle them and dysregulate often projecting their feelings on to others.  Projection is a defense mechanism used to get rid of their own unmanageable emotions.  Combined with that that often feelings = facts and there can be some pretty weird things said about you and to you, weird accusations, etc. 

Reading about the vacuum incident the first thing that came to mind was that your mother felt invalidated by your kind and generous offer to vacuum (please come over and do my place... .I have a dyson!   )  People with BPD don't respond the way a lot of people do and can feel invalidated by even the most innocent of things. 

Do any of my ideas sound like a fit?  Handling such things really involves understanding the disorder and what is going on with them so you can put it into a more workable and less personal context. 

[Pilpel]

I believe my sil leans strongly toward being npd.  She lacks empathy for others, and views the world thru her wants, needs, convenience and disappointments.  She is also very weird about possessions.  I borrowed a plastic storage container from her once - and would never do it again because I could tell if really bothered her that it wasn’t in her house.  And she has very little tolerance for mistakes and accidents when it comes to her belongings. I do think she could be not just NPD but also OCPD.  There are a list of symptoms that are very descriptive of her that are not what you would think of as descriptive of OCD.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsessive–compulsive_personality_disorder

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi peachtree,

When reading your post last night, a couple of very different thoughts came to my mind, and I don't know if the apply or not but I decided I'd share them.

We know that those with BPD self soothe in ways that are often quite different than those who don't have BPD. My uBPDm was a shopper and spender, and one of the DSM IV criteria states that they have:

"Impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating)."

It makes sense to me, all the spending.

The other thought is that I wonder if it is possible that a pwBPD sees these objects that they buy as an extension of themselves and something that will not reject them or abandon them? Since they are so very sensitive to abandonment and rejection, if someone else uses that item or breaks it (or they're afraid that it'll be broken), I wonder if that might be why they get so upset? It's an interesting thought to consider.

Wools

[lenfan]

I have observed the same thing with my upwBPD. It is not that she is materialistic in the sense of being greedy and wanting to buy things all the time, she is often generous, but it is that she is extremely protective of her possessions. The make-up incident could have happened at my house. There was an incident this Easter when she flipped out because my daughter got a little make up on the carpet.  Dropping or scratching something can trigger a rage. We are constantly reminded what something costs and why we need to take care of it. "That's mine!" is practically her FOO motto.  Furniture is covered up. Cars have floor mats for the floor mats. I think it has to do with fear of losing something . . . having it taken away, just like Woolspinner suggests. So yes, I think your Mom's behavior in this regard is consistent with BPD. All I can suggest in terms of dealing with it is to try and not take it personally and to use the techniques like SET and DEARMAN described on this site when she is triggered.  

[peachtree487]

Hi peachtree, it is good to see you again.

I am not sure exactly what is going on with your mom and her love of material things.  I think there may be several things going on. 

First, people with BPD have a very limited sense of Self and who they are on their own and look outside of themselves for some identity.  Sometimes they look to other people and sometimes they will use their possessions to feel good or important.  A lot of their behaviors are fear/anxiety driven and it sounds like that may be driving a lot of what you describe here.   The thing to remember though is that rather than face their feelings (fear, sadness, etc) they can't handle them and dysregulate often projecting their feelings on to others.  Projection is a defense mechanism used to get rid of their own unmanageable emotions.  Combined with that that often feelings = facts and there can be some pretty weird things said about you and to you, weird accusations, etc. 

Reading about the vacuum incident the first thing that came to mind was that your mother felt invalidated by your kind and generous offer to vacuum (please come over and do my place... .I have a dyson!   )  People with BPD don't respond the way a lot of people do and can feel invalidated by even the most innocent of things. 

Do any of my ideas sound like a fit?  Handling such things really involves understanding the disorder and what is going on with them so you can put it into a more workable and less personal context. 

Thanks for your reply, and YES, what you said makes perfect sense - I'm mostly new at translating what I've  learned about BPD with my moms actions, and what you said was matched my thoughts - for instance, throjghout my life, whenever anyone offers to help or do something for my mom, she has a bad reaction to it, and you mentioned the invalidation.

And, I've  always just somehow known that my mom very much feared accepting help or even gifts from anyone -her reactions to even the mention of doing the smallest thing to help her in any way was extreme, like she feared it so much that it made her angry.

She also pushes against anyone who shows love, care, or concern for her,  except for very young children. I've  always wondered if that has to do with fear of abandonment, like she is afraid to accept any affection for fear it will not last or go away - she has always been someone who never depended on anyone for anything. Like when she was married, 5 times, she would never allow her husbands to help her pay bills, she paid them all, did not allow them to mow the lawn, clean the house, etc.

The only people I've ever seen my mom be affectionate towards, like hugging or kissing, or saying kind words to, was my cousins when they were little, my son when he was little, my sisters kids when they were little, and my grandson. Ive never seen her hug an adult like her mom or dad. But, I have no memories of my mom hugging me or kissing me when I was little, yet I remember my grandmother & aunt holding, hugging, & kissing me. The only things I rember is my mom hitting me, usually on the back, my sister too.

My mom apologized to me once, not long ago, for how she treated my sister & I when we were little. It was one sentence, not specific, and it really shocked me, I didn't  know what to say.

Thanks for your help in putting these things in perspective.

[Notwendy]

My BPD mother also has an odd relationship with material things. I wouldn't describe it as materialistic but I think she has an emotional relationship with material things. I think it is due to a poor sense of self and also boundaries. The things somehow validate her and perhaps she feels they are extensions of her. If you touch or take, or accidentally break something of hers, she reacts as if we did it to her and she will pitch a fit. If she gives you a gift there are strings attached. Gifts do not reflect the relationship- she can be generous with acquaintances and not with family.

One of the things I learned when visiting her is that you do not touch her possessions or else. I don't even cook in her kitchen as using her pots and pans upsets her- even if the meal is for everyone and if we bring in take out, I have even put the trash bag in my car to throw out at home because you don't dare put it in her trash can.

I've stopped trying to figure it out. At this point, she is elderly and when I visit, it is only for a brief time and so I just go along with her rules. I know as a kid, I probably got into her make up and got into trouble for that but we learned quickly to leave her stuff alone.

She has expensive tastes and owns beautiful things, but I don't particularly want her things. Once she gave me one of her expensive purses. I was delighted to have a fancy item although I don't have the desire to buy one. When I took it home and looked at it, I realized it was broken beyond repair. I just don't question this anymore.

[isilme]

My mother would do things like this - things were more important than people I think.

Also, she'd zone out on her meds, and do things like leaving her iced tea on a "fancy" living room table with no coaster, and when she saw a ring in the wood later, get my dad to spank me for "messing up her table."  I think I got punished a lot for things she did and forgot or did not want to take the blame for.  I also got punished for yes, actually damaging things (I was a small child, often unattended and left alone and unsupervised - if the kid is quiet, don't go back to bed, get up and see what she's doing). 

She loves her heirlooms and feels more connected to them than to the people they represent, I think.  And she grew up pretty poor, and tries to live beyond her means and amass more "things" so she can feel better. 

I am NC with her.  She takes contact to mean she can steal my identity to some extent and I start getting calls from her creditors.  And she goes through phones like crazy, probably from skipping on bills and then opening new accounts.

[Enabler]

I have a couple of thoughts surrounding ‘things’ and a couple on ‘the masks’.

Certain items such as momentos hold great significance to pwBPD. Certain items have intense emotional connection and since the feel emotions more intensely they have greater meaning and importance. My MIL for example holds on to virtually every bit of tat from her deceased family (again, makes a lot of sense since they struggle with object constancy). These items have meaning far beyond any practical purpose and represent emotional ties to the past. Paranoia is also frequent along with delusional thinking hence accusations of doing harm to the pool. You maybe perfectly assured that you’re not going to fill in the pool with concrete but she certainly isn’t.

The mask... .on the one hand I can totally see how you M spending vast swathes of money may be connected with impulsivity, and I don’t know if it tends to be binge spending followed by regret, however I would guess that it has more to do with her preserving the mask. The mask is her warped ideal of what she is. She’s decided who she wants to be and literally paints it on herself. Her outward appearance masks her inner emotional wound such that no one can see her core shame. I suppose it’s a bit like the bolshy girl who says “I couldn’t give a damn what everyone thinks”... .well guess what, she does. “If I am not perfect outwardly, everyone will see how broken I actually am”... .and there’s no limit to the price someone will pay to cover that fundamental flaw up.

Interesting topic, I like this.

[peachtree487]

I have a couple of thoughts surrounding ‘things’ and a couple on ‘the masks’.

Certain items such as momentos hold great significance to pwBPD. Certain items have intense emotional connection and since the feel emotions more intensely they have greater meaning and importance. My MIL for example holds on to virtually every bit of tat from her deceased family (again, makes a lot of sense since they struggle with object constancy). These items have meaning far beyond any practical purpose and represent emotional ties to the past. Paranoia is also frequent along with delusional thinking hence accusations of doing harm to the pool. You maybe perfectly assured that you’re not going to fill in the pool with concrete but she certainly isn’t.

The mask... .on the one hand I can totally see how you M spending vast swathes of money may be connected with impulsivity, and I don’t know if it tends to be binge spending followed by regret, however I would guess that it has more to do with her preserving the mask. The mask is her warped ideal of what she is. She’s decided who she wants to be and literally paints it on herself. Her outward appearance masks her inner emotional wound such that no one can see her core shame. I suppose it’s a bit like the bolshy girl who says “I couldn’t give a damn what everyone thinks”... .well guess what, she does. “If I am not perfect outwardly, everyone will see how broken I actually am”... .and there’s no limit to the price someone will pay to cover that fundamental flaw up.

Interesting topic, I like this.

Thank You, you are so  right. My uBPDm does have a history of binge spending, but at the same time has never got into any trouble financially. She does have regret a lot for some she has bought, and it is very obvious that she makes large purchases, like vehicles, thinking that the purchases will make her feel better or preserve her mask, like you said. For instance, she trades her cars in extremely often, and always keeps 2 cars for fear than one will break down. She has also given cars to all of her grandchildren, they are mostly cars she buys for herself, then gives them to the grandkids about a year after owning them - she continues to make the payments herself, like a way of making sure they depend on her, for at least a few years, because she thinks that since she doesn't show her love in other ways that this is a way of keeping them close, somehow.

[Enabler]

Great example of ‘messed up love’. “You will love me as I have bought you this”. I’m clearly judging her motivations which is wrong of me but I suspect it’s not as altruistic as she might make out. Also, selling cars is a pain and involves effort, and it’s not very exciting, certainly not as exciting as buying things.

[Notwendy]

“If I am not perfect outwardly, everyone will see how broken I actually am”.


This statement could describe my mother. If she is going somewhere, everything- hair, nails, shoes, dress- has to be perfect. Also, if people come over ( which is rare because she feels anxiety about it)- everything- the food, has to be perfect. She's pitched a fit if there are the wrong kind of noodles in the soup- as if anyone would notice. She also asks constantly- is this OK? Was the food OK? This concern has actually seemed to paralyze her from doing things- they have to be perfect or it's all wrong. If there is one mark on the couch, it is ruined. If we touch her things- they are ruined. Black and white thinking here.

It must be really difficult to be in this situation.