Update and seeking advise. Sleeping on the couch for the last 10 months

[Cipher13]

Hello all,
I wanted to give an update on some struggles and would like some advice. I'll try to keep this to the point. Been seeing therapist/counselor off and on for the last year. He been a pretty big help when it has come to helping me figure out some of what I am dealing with my uBPD/w.  Then he suggested to bring her into talk also. That's when it kind of turned to him taking her side. He explained this in advance and after the group that somethings she needs to hear and I am stronger and can withstand and understand where he is coming form. With out going into detail I agreed with that. However telling her that basically I need to be the one that initiates conversation and intimacy (in short to do everything to fix the relationship.) That's not entirely what he said and not really what he meant but that's how she heard it. I've been on sleeping on the couch for the last 10 months and there has been no sexual intimacy for over 18 months of not longer. She expects me to always initiate every conversation. What frustrating is nothing has improved. Nothing has really gotten worse either. But I have noticed that I have been really feeling indifferent towards my relationship. I really am not even wanting to try at all. How do I address this? Keep in mind I am horrible at communication especially about this topic.

[Cat Familiar]

So you’re kind of drifting along and things aren’t getting worse, but they aren’t getting better either. And she feels it’s entirely your responsibility to initiate conversation and intimacy and basically “fix” the relationship. But at this point you feel indifferent and you are disinclined to try.

What keeps you from wanting to make an effort to improve things?

And did you feel a sense of loss when your therapist took her side, even though you understood why he felt he needed to do that?

[AskingWhy]

Cipher, I am glad you are seeking help in this.  Being banished to a life on the couch--for that amount of time and with no intimacy--is unhealthy.  It's abusive and a way of withholding affection--both tools of the NPD side of BPD.

Counseling is very good, but we wary of allowing your W into your counseling.  BPDs have a way of manipulating counselors so that you look like a madman.    You will be the one to blame.  

This happened to me years ago when my uBPD H and I decided to see a counselor.  I was despondent, and she did not see the dynamics.  In short, H soon had her believing that I was the unbalanced one. Very common with BPD when the counselor is not skilled enough to see it.  I was weeping in the session, and at one point shouted at him.  Rather than seeing my distress and hurt over H's actions (emotional and verbal abuse), and looking to analyse the situation, she stood up from her desk, pointed down at me and shook her finger, ordering me and saying, "You will not shout at him in my office!  Do you hear me?  Or else you will lose this man who loves you!"

You should have seen the smug look on H's face.  All the way home, I tolerated more abuse as H said, "You see, b*tch?  You're the crazy one in this marriage!  The counselor was right.  Now listen to what she said and treat me well."

I could not believe a licensed social worker did that to me.  When I said I did not want to continue with her, H immediately accused me of not wanting to work on myself.

Be very careful about letting your W into your counseling.  Do so understanding the risks.  

[once removed]

do you know if theres any plan for her to come back? any idea if she will see someone herself?

[Notwendy]

Is your wife interested in any MC?

A couple of comments on what happened. Many years ago I was seeing a counselor myself for issues in my marriage. My H had refused MC. Finally I was able to convince him to attend a session with me. He sat there poker faces and basically walked out. When I asked him why he said he felt like the T and I were ganging up on him. This wasn't true but it is how he felt. He refused MC from then one.

Years later, our relationship had deteriorated to the point where it concerned him. I had been doing all that I knew to try to make things better, but nothing worked. He reluctantly agreed to MC. I had learned from the first time that any MC we chose had to be someone I had not met before- to avoid the "ganging up on him" perception. It also had to be a woman. My H's father was a critical and verbally cruel man and I felt a male T in an advisory position would not be a good situation.

We found a new MC and she seemed to side with him. I expected her to address his issues too, but she didn't. She told me I was co-dependent and advised me to work on my issues. I was upset at first- how is it that I got a "label" when he didn't. He was the one who was raging and giving me the ST. How is that OK for a marriage. But she continued to work "with me". Eventually I realized the intent behind this- I think she was brilliant and picked up right away that - if she had also addressed him he would have walked out of the office like he did the other time.

We did make some progress because as long as he wasn't directly implicated, he did listen. He was Mr. Charming in the office. I thought maybe he had won her over at times. Still the work she did with me was well worth it. We were able to reduce the drama.

She also did address intimacy but didn't leave it up to me entirely. She recommended a book "Passionate Marriage". The title and contents were a bit steamy. I personally found that distracting as the book actually addresses relationship dynamics and how they affect intimacy. It isn't about BPD specifically but addresses enmeshment.

I don't know what your T intends. He could be way off, or he might have realized that addressing your wife as the "problem" is probably not effective and that it may be more effective to work on you. We are not able to change another person, but if one person in a couple changes, there is hope to change the dynamics between them. You might want to go along with it to see where this leads. It's hurtful to initiate and be rejected, and I expect she might, but with both of you feeling hurt in your corners, it's possible you are able to do this better than she is. If it doesn't help, then you can decide to continue with his advice or not. If your communication skills are not strong, you could work on this. These skills could help in any relationship- work, family.

[Cipher13]

To answer the first question of what is keeping e from wanting to make an effort to improve things has a few levels to it. First I have through my own efforts and my own personality to the best of my abilities have been trying for the last 2 years to make improvements. I have tried to be mindful of how I react and respond. I have tired to be intentional in my feelings and thoughts towards her. Complimenting her when and where I find it appropriate. The second part is that I receive absolutely no return affection, compliments or appreciation. I am told that is not enough nor the "right thing" that she needs to make her feel better.

The whole situation is that she wants me to make her feel better about herself and our relationship. That's the simple shortest version of the whole story.

As far as the counselor goes He had prepared me that he was not going to take it easy on me and gang up on her right out of the gate. I don't see him as being one that can be easily manipulated by BPD or a Narcissist. He does handle those kinds of cases as well and is fully trained in that field. His approach was to find what cracks my wife has in her that would allow me to be able to be successful in not only improving the relationship but also myself as well. I am holding too much of my personal feelings inside and not expressing them to my wife in order to not make her upset with me. 

I am just feeling that as much as I have expressed my wish to make this relationship successful over the last couple years in counseling. My exterior is cracking and breaking down. I am feeling less and less willing to make efforts. When my wife wants to plan this trip or that vacation I think to myself I have no desire to do that with you. Even though it would have been something I would have wanted to do  a couple years ago.

[Enabler]

If he is experienced in dealing with pwBPD he knows that to make any traction with her he needs to be painted White... .and the best way to do that is to paint you black. He's validating her view of you and gaining trust such that he can develop a basis for therapeutic transformation. He's likely treated with a serious amount of mistrust when she first visits... ."he's going to side with H, this is a trap". So, he beats you up and throws you under the bus. She now thinks "I like this chap". He does this for a few sessions until you are broken down... .and this is where he wants you. She now trusts him and listens to him because "He gets me and gets the relationship". Now, he pulls out a few contradictions or addresses in a 'coach' manner some of the things he knows are issues... ."So Cipher W, why do you think it is that Cipher has been sleeping on the coach for the last 10m?" Whilst she's feeling the empowerment of you being suppressed she is likely to not notice the things she let slip, he's likely building a dosier of these little corner stones of her trauma fantasy, he may well try and get her to a point where she herself starts to undermine the cornerstones and see for herself what has gone on.

He needs you to be on your knees, it will end though. If you're not humbled she will walk out and never return.

Clearly I am not your T, but knowing what I know now, this is what I would do.

Enabler 

[Notwendy]

I don't think I would say "on your knees" but the two of you are both in your corners hurting and it's hard to repair a relationship from that perspective. What your T may be saying is that, you need to be the one to come out of that corner first- she isn't going to.

In my own experience, a pwBPD is in victim mode and there can't be two victims. Whatever happened- due to her own trauma - her wound is greater than yours as far as she is concerned and if you keep your stance you are ( to her) pouring salt into it.

IMHO, you need to be standing on your feet, not your knees as an authentic person with her. I do agree with Enabler that pride isn't helpful but gentle confidence can be. In my own life, I value humility as a character trait but I've leaned towards being a doormat and letting people walk all over me. That didn't help my relationship. It's important to work on your own hurts and not look to her to help- she can't do this from victim mode. Yes, you have tried all you know- but if what you are doing isn't effective, all that trying won't work. Is your T proposing another way?


It's not comfortable to have  a T point at me. I didn't think it was fair. I thought my H's behavior was also something to consider, but I decided to try what she proposed for a while.

I understand you don't feel motivated to try your T's advice- but are you willing? I think you have a few choices here- keep the dynamics the same way they are now, and you don't do something different, or try your T's advice.

The Passionate Marriage book has info on the intimacy standoff. It might be interesting to leave it out in plain sight ( unless you have kids). I begged my H to read relationship books and he refused, but when the T suggested this one- it got his attention.

[Cipher13]

Notwendy

Thanks I will look into that book.

[Wrongturn1]

Hi Cipher:  are you planning to invite your wife to another therapy session anytime soon?  This might provide an opportunity for him to work on her a little.  What are the factors keeping you in the marriage at this point?