Is this projection?

[Boll2017]

My uwBPD talks almost constantly about other people’s marriages or others physical/mental health problems.   

Also happens when we watch TV.   She talks about the TV characters

She is especially animated when talking about others suffering. 

Is this a way for her to articulate her own pain?

[Red5]

Is this a way for her to articulate her own pain?

Evening Boll2017,

Watching tv, my uBPDw, .we’ve been separated since 1 December.

... .projection?, my wife was always watching the following programs on the tv,
*judge Judy
*dr Phil
*say yes to the dress
*project runway
*hallmark Christmas romances (endlessly)
*figure skating competition

So, as my interest in such shows was nil, so I would go into the office to work  (telework)... .this would last about ten minutes... .and she would get angry and quarrelsome that “you never want to spend time with me”... .even though we’d been together since I got home from work and all through supper, .

So I would go back into the den with her, and she would continue watching any facsimile of the above... .

So for Christmas three years ago... .she buys me an iPad... .so I could “read the news”’while she watched her shows... .my work laptop was strictly “verboten” !... .to be out of its case in her presence... .so she buys this iPad... .so I’d be “occupied”... .so we’d be together... .this lasted about two minutes... .and I was told... .’all you ever do is watch the news and email your uncles (also all retired military)... .

The only thing that was acceptable to her was that I sit in the Love seat sofa next to her recliner and watch the non stop selection of “brain dead” ’shows of hers ~ with her... .and I wasn’t allowed to speak... .either !... .shhhh!

Then she took over the iPad too, to “blog”... .while her shows were on, and I was sitting in the love seat with her little dog... .whom I loved dearly : )

I did the best I could to try to make her as comfortable as possible... .as she has cancer and has not worked in about two years... .always on duty... .making sure she had everything she needed... .wanted... .

I even tried reading... .same result... .“what are you reading”... .I would hold up the book... .and she would “criticize”’my reading material... .’usually WWII history’... .“Battle of the Atlantic” fav subject... .

LoL

... .never could ‘win’ with her, .she even criticized my reading lamp I bought for the purpose... .all the while I’m sitting three feet way from her... .

I guess it was an attention thing... .but I was ‘right there’!

The fact that she watched dr Phil was kind of humorous to me however  ... .as she always said I (eye) was the one whom “was mental”... .

She did let me watch what I wanted to sometimes... .although I’ve not been interested in television for a long time other than the history channel... .and turner classic movies... .and the weather channel... .

Yes, I would say, kitchens all squared away... .S32(autistic) is in his bed... . both pups have been out, I’ll be in the office for about a half hour... .can I get you anything first?, .“that’s when the fight started”... .

Hang in the Boll2017,

Red5

[Boll2017]

Thanks Red.   You are articulating what I go through as well.  Right down to the home office and tv dynamics. 

Great to have this community to see other folks face similar situations. 

[Vexed]

No, I don't think it's considered projection.  However, I can relate.  And I do think it signifies an unconscious insecurity in that area.

 I'm unsure if it fits into a category of BPD but I can tell you the hypercritical/hypernegative attitude is a Hallmark trait of pwBPD.  And in my experience they are certain subjects that they are obsessed with talking about (negatively).  My ex could not stop complaining about how bad everyone else's driving was.  Every single day I had to hear about the driver who honked at her, cut her off, ran her off the road, etc.  And some stories I would have to hear over and over again every time we passed the landmark where someone honked at her stupidly or whatever else happened to occur that she felt was wrong.

I don't know if projection can happen with the television but it is similar I think.  But most likely if it was projection she would be projecting these insecurities onto you, and would be complaining about how your responsible for her crappy marriage and project the things she does wrong onto you.  Now your the one who is making the mistakes not her.

[Boll2017]

For sure insecurity

I think it is away to seek validation for her pain and emptiness.  Those who listen and acknowledge the pain are helpful to her.  I try to validate as well.

She also picks friends who she feels depend on her and she gets involved in there lives. if they distance themselves she feels slighted.  Push-pull.

Anyway she is a very verbal person.  Since she won’t get into therapy, I think her relationships are her mechanism for therapy.

[once removed]

when i was really young, i heard that a great way to bond with people is to talk about stuff that you dislike/hate.

for some people, its a primary way, if not the primary way, to bond.

i suspect shes articulating strong opinions. how do you respond when shes doing it?

[Boll2017]

I listen and validate.   I am not critical.   I also ask her questions to help her troubleshoot when it is her own frustrations.  If she is talking about others then I listen and acknowledge the pain she talks about.

My frustration comes in when she overshares about her frustrations with me.  Like when I leave the room or condo if she won’t leave me alone during a rage.  The fact I left which has happened 3 times now she says I am punishing her.   I tell her I am doing this to de escalate the conflict and not subject myself to the vitriol.  But she continues with this victim card again later.  I then repeat the why again. 

My take is this interaction is about boundaries.   But it seems borderlines can be pretty creative at reinventing their ways and finding other subjects to get validation and Foist guilt.  Perhaps I’m over sensitive but I feel like it is a way for her to show her displeasure while avoiding naming me.

Nevertheless I generally I don’t take the bait and acknowledge and validate whatever she says at face value.   

However, I have told her that talking about other people’s suffering Is wearing for me.  I truly feel smothered by the barrage. Will see if this is another boundary testing exercise. 

As  Cat said in another thread living with uwBPD is a lifestyle.   I know I am changing my reactions to her and she is reacting.   This takes a lot of stamina. 

[once removed]

The fact I left which has happened 3 times now she says I am punishing her.

you are.

My take is this interaction is about boundaries.

it isnt. this is a common misconception when it comes to boundaries.

i did the same thing. walking out on someone who is venting their frustrations at you is a punitive approach that shuts the other person down.

this is an important read: https://bpdfamily.com/content/setting-boundaries

Nevertheless I generally I don’t take the bait and acknowledge and validate whatever she says at face value.   

this is not what validation is for, and you may even be validating the invalid.

the trick is not to use validation as a means to try to put out a fire. often times, its condescending, and our partners can see right through it. in terms of using the tools as a lifestyle, think more broadly, about creating a validating environment (thats where people with BPD traits do best).

if you are experiencing disrespect, over the top frustration, dysregulation, what have you, its easier to think in terms of "dont be invalidating".

[Boll2017]

you are.

Not sure I Agee.  The rest of the story.   

As I’ve posted before,  these rages come when I contact my family.   I tried to implement the validation of her feelings while sticking to my guns on contacting my family.  After 2 or 3 days of attacks on my skills as a husband.   I would apologize to restore the peace.  That was a mistake I know and only enabled more escalation. So when I traveled to a wedding alone because I feared her venting her anger at them, she hit me and threw things at me.  So when it comes to this subject I leave out of fear for my safety.

  Regardless of the errors we make in our own actions in a relationship with a BPD partner, if we fear for our physical safety,  my view is we need to remove ourselves.

Again I recognize my not applying the tools presented here was not helpful. 

I’m interested in your thoughts here.   

[Red5]

...she hit me and threw things at me.  So when it comes to this subject I leave out of fear for my safety.

Regardless of the errors we make in our own actions in a relationship with a BPD partner, if we fear for our physical safety, my view is we need to remove ourselves.

There is a 'hair trigger'… "one detent"… "double action"… between raging/yelling… "throwing objects"… and then the worst type… actual physical abuse, hitting, slapping, pushing…

As I read your post Boll2017, and you are also a former (retired?) military… perhaps now serving in civil service (?)… we must understand, that in the case of holding a security clearance… one, just one (1) hit on a law enforcement 'blotter', DV involvement, even if you were not the aggressor… doesn't matter, and means that you could have your clearance pulled for 'cause', and then your billet is now compromised, or even gone due to this happening.

I've seen it happen.

Must be mindful of this… this is a difficult road to travel here, married to, living with a volatile pw/BPD (wife)… and trying to maintain a (retired) career (civil service)... sometimes high energy (stress), and responsibility.

Yes, a fine line, and once its crossed, not good as stated above.

Best Regards, Red5

[Boll2017]

Thanks for this validation.  This is an important point.

One time she threatened while drunk to scream into the hallway of our condo if I left (this was after she hit me - I didn’t hit her in response then or any other time).  I managed to vacate the premise.  But she still screamed.   I posted last year about this.

My therapist at the VA has told me about a case he had.  He has treated a lot of BPD situations.  He tells me of a time someone’s wife accused a patient of assault and the patient said he didn’t assault her.  Later the wife took it back but law enforcement told her they were obliged to retain the allegation as open.  The reason - there are cases where the victim is fearful or wants to make the relationship work.  I agree this is a very real phenomenon.

But there are consequences. All it takes is an allegation regardless of truth in some jobs to place employment in jeopardy as you rightly say.

As I have posted these several days I have received replies that speak to the fundamentals of being in a relationship with someone with BPD. I respect the knowledge I have seen here.  The board staff are generous with their time and good will.

 I have a lot of anger and resentment of my own that I would think is a common challenge for all of us.

Beyond that, For me the longer term comes down to feeling safe in an emotional and practical sense in this relationship.  If you feel safe, I feel someone is well positioned to implement these strategies.

I need to better recognize and validate my own feelings.  I have been struggling with FOG.

Thanks again Red for this perspective

[Sandb2015]

Good evening everyone and Boll2017,

I'm reading your opening post and I can say I've experienced this strange television/movie projection, it was the oddest thing I would just tolerate.

Watching any show and hearing "under her breath comments" that would turn into infernos in an hour or two as we sat in bed watching something as we are holding each other in bed waiting for sleep to come.

Looking back, I don't know how to label it...

Watching GOT, she would go on and on about Caleesi and be angry at how I looked at her and how manipulative and controlling she could be.  The night would end with me having to sleep elsewhere or something like that.

An old show SIX FEET UNDER, she would say I'm the same as this or that character and my ex is like this or that character, and actually see me as that character and be angry eventually having me sleep elsewhere or something like that.

Movies, TV shows, comedies...all had the potential of walking on eggshells, being compared and labeled this or that character, that I had done that before her and I'm the same as that character exactly and I've done that exact thing.

Like being angry with a imaginary character and blaming me, eventually taking it out on me.  This happened so many times, I was careful about what we watched, didn't help and I didn't help, I would make it worse, I wish I know what I do now.

She would sympathize with good characters and label me as the one that wronged others in the show or movie, it was so surreal, still is looking back. It always escalated and I was so confused, hardly lost my temper and stated the obvious, that's not us, that a show/movie, that's not me, etc.-------good luck with my 15 minutes of JADING, it got me 12-18 hours of "episode".

She was half asleep once while I was watching AMELIE, a feel good movie I've seen many times.  The whole next day she wouldn't stop about how cute the character was and how I was watching it to remind myself of my ex (vomit to dry heave), even saying the color of the lipstick was the same?  This created such a great amount of anxiety because we could be a few minutes into a show or movie and this would happen, escalation would happen 60-70 percent of the time, a few times she changed it without comment, sometimes we would discuss it and she would say that she doesn't know why she is reacting that way.

I understand it now.  She is soo insecure, any attractive woman is a real threat, I just never understood how she put me in a movie or show and said I'm that guy exactly (usually bad) or bad decision maker, fake phony, derelict in responsibilities, cheater, you get my drift.

It came down to that was you at sometime in your life doing that exactly, but never am I doing that now, never.  She was fixated/OBSESSED  on her fantasy of my past before her and she was so wrong needless to say

I will take go out on a limb here and say it was projection...big time.

[once removed]

As I’ve posted before,  these rages come when I contact my family.   I tried to implement the validation of her feelings while sticking to my guns on contacting my family.  After 2 or 3 days of attacks on my skills as a husband.   I would apologize to restore the peace.  That was a mistake I know and only enabled more escalation. So when I traveled to a wedding alone because I feared her venting her anger at them, she hit me and threw things at me.  So when it comes to this subject I leave out of fear for my safety.

the history of physical violence certainly speaks to why you would leave, but im not sure it changes the equation, and it seems like the approach only escalates matters.

theres a fine line between taking a time out, and getting up to leave each time a subject comes up. a time out should really be used as a last resort.

TOOLS: How to take a time out
So when you can't make it stop your best option is to get away. That means telling them you are taking a time out and walking out of the room, going to watch tv, read a book, take the dog (or just yourself) for a walk, go for a drive, or go work on a favorite hobby. My favorite is going to the bathroom for some privacy and time to think. But your want to do this in a way that doesn't make it worse.   
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=84942.0

you need an additional safety plan if things escalate to physical violence. see what you can take from this workshop, especially this post: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=87480.msg848546#msg848546

[Boll2017]

Good thread on domestic violence. 

[Sandb2015]

Boll2017 and everyone else,

I want to apologize.

I didn't see the domestic abuse/threat of and now feel like my response was trivial compared to the matter at hand.

[Boll2017]

Sand

No worries.   You provided good validation. When my wife is calm this is a pattern she has as well.