UBPDh and his foo

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I have a question for the forum experts:
Throughout close to 20 years of marriage my relationships with uBPDh’s foo have been by very least complicated. UBPD mother in law and npd father in law. They have been either neglectful or forceful and intrusive regarding family affairs. They also mastered fog techniques, frequently comparing two sons (my uBPDh and his sibling) making them compete for attention. About 10 years ago they moved to the village country side to help the other son with his kids. Sadly for me, they have now sold the home and are moving to the same area where we live. I have enforced little contact, limiting to the celebrations and holidays, thus decreasing uBPDh’s splitting and his foo in our family’s business. From the looks of it, I suspect they want to be more involved (uBPD mil called to announce “poof, we are here”).  Culturally it’s very hard to establish the boundaries, especially explicit ones. So my question for you guys, who have a similar situation, how do you limit and discuss those matters. I understand that I can only change the things I can, accept the ones I can’t (like if uBPDh decides to go visit then in his own, which comes with a heavy dose of brainwashing), I need to know the wisdom to know the difference. Last thing I want is uninvited visits, intrusion on my privacy and unsolicited advises.

[snowglobe]

I have a question for the forum experts:
Throughout close to 20 years of marriage my relationships with uBPDh’s foo have been by very least complicated. UBPD mother in law and npd father in law. They have been either neglectful or forceful and intrusive regarding family affairs. They also mastered fog techniques, frequently comparing two sons (my uBPDh and his sibling) making them compete for attention. About 10 years ago they moved to the village country side to help the other son with his kids. Sadly for me, they have now sold the home and are moving to the same area where we live. I have enforced little contact, limiting to the celebrations and holidays, thus decreasing uBPDh’s splitting and his foo in our family’s business. From the looks of it, I suspect they want to be more involved (uBPD mil called to announce “poof, we are here”).  Culturally it’s very hard to establish the boundaries, especially explicit ones. So my question for you guys, who have a similar situation, how do you limit and discuss those matters. I understand that I can only change the things I can, accept the ones I can’t (like if uBPDh decides to go visit then in his own, which comes with a heavy dose of brainwashing), I need to know the wisdom to know the difference. Last thing I want is uninvited visits, intrusion on my privacy and unsolicited advises.

[Notwendy]

I'm sure you are just thrilled to have the in laws nearby...

I don't have a good solution, just a warning to stay out of the drama. Each family has it's craziness. We tend to match our partners with our own issues, not the same way but in a complementary fashion.

This was a mystery to me as I knew where the "crazy" was in my FOO, but my H's appeared "normal" and he maintained they were. In many ways they are more "normal" than mine but over time, I discovered there was plenty of "crazy" there too. The type of families we grew up in are likely to have poor boundaries.

Families also tend to defend themselves. Being the scapegoat child, I admit my mother has issues, but when I do talk about them, I feel I am doing something wrong and it feels wrong. In my FOO it is wrong to reveal her issues.

For my H, it feels like a betrayal to discuss issues in his FOO, and if I do, he takes it as a personal insult, even if I am not talking about him. However, he can say something and not take it that way. I have learned over time that saying something about his family issues is personally disturbing to him.

The Karpman triangle is in play in both our families. If he feels I am "insulting" his family he will jump in to defend them. Also, we tend to revert back to our places in the family pattern. When we are with his family, he behaves according to that role. It's a natural tendency that we do unless we choose to work on it.

I have learned that - we can only deal with our own families. If I get into his family "crazy"- it triggers my H into defense mode. My H also doesn't feel comfortable getting into my family issues, but I am willing to do it. My H is slowly becoming willing to set boundaries with his family but it has taken his own time to experience the issues for him to realize he wants to do this. When I have tried to get him to "see it" it has cause issues for us. It doesn't work well.

IMHO- tread lightly with this. You are likely to be the persecutor if you don't. If they are intrusive, better to let him experience it and set his own boundaries. If you do, you will likely get on a triangle and that leads to drama and dysfunction.

[formflier]

  Last thing I want is uninvited visits, intrusion on my privacy and unsolicited advises.

You will get these and it's important that you figure out how to handle this ahead of time, so you can be consistent in how you handle them.

So...(knock knock)...who's there?  The FOO!

"Hey FOO.  I'm surprised to see you.  Listen, now isn't a good time.  Can we grab ice cream at the mall tomorrow at 6pm?"

Do not explain why it's bad time (they don't get to know) and don't worry when they refuse ice cream.

1.  Protect your boundaries.
2.  Build healthy bridges

Combine those two and it should eventually work itself out.

I'm wondering if you should make the first move.  Invite them to something on neutral turf.  Catch up. 

Tell me more about "culturally hard to do boundaries".

FF

[snowglobe]

I'm sure you are just thrilled to have the in laws nearby...

I don't have a good solution, just a warning to stay out of the drama. Each family has it's craziness. We tend to match our partners with our own issues, not the same way but in a complementary fashion.

This was a mystery to me as I knew where the "crazy" was in my FOO, but my H's appeared "normal" and he maintained they were. In many ways they are more "normal" than mine but over time, I discovered there was plenty of "crazy" there too. The type of families we grew up in are likely to have poor boundaries.

Families also tend to defend themselves. Being the scapegoat child, I admit my mother has issues, but when I do talk about them, I feel I am doing something wrong and it feels wrong. In my FOO it is wrong to reveal her issues.

For my H, it feels like a betrayal to discuss issues in his FOO, and if I do, he takes it as a personal insult, even if I am not talking about him. However, he can say something and not take it that way. I have learned over time that saying something about his family issues is personally disturbing to him.

The Karpman triangle is in play in both our families. If he feels I am "insulting" his family he will jump in to defend them. Also, we tend to revert back to our places in the family pattern. When we are with his family, he behaves according to that role. It's a natural tendency that we do unless we choose to work on it.

I have learned that - we can only deal with our own families. If I get into his family "crazy"- it triggers my H into defense mode. My H also doesn't feel comfortable getting into my family issues, but I am willing to do it. My H is slowly becoming willing to set boundaries with his family but it has taken his own time to experience the issues for him to realize he wants to do this. When I have tried to get him to "see it" it has cause issues for us. It doesn't work well.

IMHO- tread lightly with this. You are likely to be the persecutor if you don't. If they are intrusive, better to let him experience it and set his own boundaries. If you do, you will likely get on a triangle and that leads to drama and dysfunction.

Wendy,
There are a lot of parallels between your situation and mine. Like you, I was forthcoming regarding my family’s dysfunction. UBPDh on the other hand maintained that his life was always perfect sailing (not, as a discovered observing his behaviour). His father is npd and mother is BPD, from day one they didn’t approve of our union, and did nothing to help a young family. My parents dove head first to provide childcare and physical support on the daily basis, since uBPDh never wanted to contribute to household chores. As soon as uBPDh started earning substantial amount, they started showing up unannounced and uninvited , calling to ask for something they wanted. The also grew heavy on fog: fear we are old, if you don’t spend time with us now, we will die, you will feel guilty, no one loves you like we do (?), obligation: because we raised you and supported you, you now owe us to provide the lifestyle we feel we deserve e.g lavish gifts, vacations, inviting to your home and so on, guilt your brother does so much for us, he is such an amazing son, his wife treats us with love, care and attention, and your wife (referring to me in my presence), well, you know her... I was obligated to host mass dinners byeeekly, serving and cooking, entertaining them, whilst they lectured me on how “wrong” I was parenting my kids And living my life. His brother would show up at anytime, high as a kite, unfortunately cannabis is legal where we live. I tried to set the boundary: we can’t afford to help your parents, we are going into debt ourselves if we do, or I don’t want to see them this weekend, I have other plans, in tern he raged at me and refused to cooperate. Every time they would come, there was a “threat” of them sleeping over, as it’s part of their  family dynamics. WhAt it means is that someone gets kicked out of their bed for the night, either adult children (for example us) or grandkids so the grandparents can be comfortable. It angered and disgusted me, as I believe everyone is entitled to their space, place and privacy, even my small kids. It all came crushing and burning several times when unpdh’s parents did not show up to some function, or did not come through, or called my mother to tell her that if it was another daughter in law, she would be kicked out and living under the bridge for treating them the way I do. My mother told me the conversation and I called to tell uBPDh that I was done with him and his family. He went into teacher mode, and called his parents to say to Either apologize to me, or never get into our lives. I had solid 4 years of relative peace.
A lot of this issues are financial, they feel entitled to his earnings. Just because they have raised him.
The issue for my uBPDh is that when we got married they have sold their property, moved in with his younger brother (only 2 brothers) and his family and gave all the money to his brother. They helped to raise his kids and supported his business ventures with lines of credit and other support. Never did they help my uBPDh siting that he wasn’t earning well and couldn’t afford to buy a property anyway (wasn’t true). Now, when they expect the attention, affection and financial gain, I infuriates me. Why? What have they done to help us? Where were they for most of my marriage? Why would I spend my time serving them dinners and being chastised?

[snowglobe]

You will get these and it's important that you figure out how to handle this ahead of time, so you can be consistent in how you handle them.

So...(knock knock)...who's there?  The FOO!

"Hey FOO.  I'm surprised to see you.  Listen, now isn't a good time.  Can we grab ice cream at the mall tomorrow at 6pm?"

Do not explain why it's bad time (they don't get to know) and don't worry when they refuse ice cream.

1.  Protect your boundaries.
2.  Build healthy bridges

Combine those two and it should eventually work itself out.

I'm wondering if you should make the first move.  Invite them to something on neutral turf.  Catch up. 

Tell me more about "culturally hard to do boundaries".

FF

Ff,
Thank you for being my sounding board. If a scenario like this would happen, this is how it would play itself out.

So...(knock knock)...who's there?  The FOO!
"Hey FOO.  I'm surprised to see you.  Listen, now isn't a good time.  Can we grab ice cream at the mall tomorrow at 6 pm”

UBPDh coming out of the room, hovering over and saying:” oh, mom and dad, of course it is a good time, do come in. Snowflake, run to the kitchen and make dinner, what’s going on with you guys”
Snowflake: I shave other plans, head ache, whatever...
UBPDh mouthing :you stupid b&@ch you better go or else
Snowflake runs upstairs crying, hearing Laughter and giggle for uBPDh and his foo until wee hours. Or snowflake swallows the bile and goes into the kitchen to prep and serve
This is an actual scenario that occurred many times over the years.

[snowglobe]

When I say culturally hard to set the boundaries is that his culture is very transitional and misogynistic. Women are expected and required to cook, host family dinners, set the table, clean up the table, serve with a smile, invite for a sleepover (because in laws are elderly) and we ready to give up own bed, then wash rinse repeat the next day. My parents have not raised me this way. I struggle and refuse to accept this. I am barely tolerating uBPDh’s crazy. If you add his foo, brother who is alcoholic and drug addict, I’m turning into a mama bear who is willing to fight to shield my children from this toxic expose. Put downs are constant, Ff. Anytime my in laws see my 15 yo professionally competitive daughter they have two questions:
1. When will you get married (poking fun at me, always looking to sit up, since I married their son at 18) when I say we don’t speak about nonsense, they retort “but you were in a hurry to marry our son at 18!”
2. Are you doing competitive sport to become an exotic dancer (father in law)? Wth?
She is the only one out of 6 of their grandkids who achieved anything. Why put her down at family dinners in front of all people?

[formflier]

There is an interesting point of view that you need to consider.  

How is it that your parents are able to live in the house and for his parents to sleep over, even one night is a big thing?

I can see many ways that comes to pass, but one thing I'm sure of is a pwBPD is going to turn it into a dichotomus thing...without any nuance.

(from POV of your hubby)  "Her parents are welcome and my parents are not."

I would also challenge you to examine people outside a marriage "diving right in" to help with things inside a marriage and family.

Why not let those inside the marriage handle all that stuff.  Let those outside the marriage handle their own stuff.

Do you ever consider that your husband didn't do (fill in the blank) because others were doing it for him?...enabling him in a sense.

Please don't here criticism here...families make all kinds of choices and if everyone is happy and onboard...more power to them.  

FF

[snowglobe]

Current situation:
They were living in the country, an hour away in a house that their younger son had purchased under his name. He now sold the house and at the end of this month, in a week, they are supposed to move. They are struggling to find a place for rent that they like. She called me and asked me to help her get on a subsidized housing list, since I’m so crafty with getting things done. I went into a panic frenzy mode. I always do when I see her name on a caller id. I decided to be transparent and told this to uBPDh. He went into crazy rage, when he heard that we would have to pay to a lawyer for that. On one hand, you would say, here is the person who doesn’t want to spend money on anything. Wrong, he was mad because she called me, and not him. If she ever called him, and started crying, he would sell everything we have to put her in a nice home (my mother in law). He is also acting resentful towards my parents, saying that they are useless (not) just like his parents (true). I have booked ya a holiday, during the period of their birthday week celebration. To create a physical boundary between us. Let them sort out their living situation on their own, then see where we would fit in.

[formflier]

UBPDh mouthing :you stupid b&@ch you better go or else
Snowflake runs upstairs crying, hearing Laughter and giggle for uBPDh and his foo until wee hours. Or snowflake swallows the bile and goes into the kitchen to prep and serve
This is an actual scenario that occurred many times over the years.

Well...running upstairs to cry and making dinner are both choices I hope you NEVER make again.

Here is the thing...if your husband wants them there, little you can do about it.

Same for you and those you want in the house.

While I wouldn't "push" you for a confrontation, especially in the early stages of the move back, I think it's something you need to start giving some thought to so you are not caught unprepared.

FF

[snowglobe]

There is an interesting point of view that you need to consider.  

How is it that your parents are able to live in the house and for his parents to sleep over, even one night is a big thing?

I can see many ways that comes to pass, but one thing I'm sure of is a pwBPD is going to turn it into a dichotomus thing...without any nuance.

(from POV of your hubby)  "Her parents are welcome and my parents are not."

I would also challenge you to examine people outside a marriage "diving right in" to help with things inside a marriage and family.

Why not let those inside the marriage handle all that stuff.  Let those outside the marriage handle their own stuff.

Do you ever consider that your husband didn't do (fill in the blank) because others were doing it for him?...enabling him in a sense.

Please don't here criticism here...families make all kinds of choices and if everyone is happy and onboard...more power to them.  

FF

Ff, I love your attention to details. The difference is dynamics with my family. I don’t serve, cater or take care of them. They cook meals, help to car pool the kids, clean, do laundry, iron, my dad showers the snow, mows the lawn and does the garbage. When we are together, never do my parents ask/expect to be catered to. In his family, I’m supposed/e or red to be a cook, a waiter and a maid, while being critiqued. That’s the difference. I can see how in his mind your sentence would be true, but the real truth is, when he was broke, they didn’t come around at all. It was like only younger more successful brother was around. They are like leaches, parasites attaching themselves to a host. And of course, there is an element of rivalry on my part for the resources. If he gives to his parents, he has less to give to my kids. Resources are very much limited, especially since he lost that position in another city. My children didn’t choose to be born, he wanted them. His parents- they should have been thinking of their retirement long ago.

[snowglobe]

Well...running upstairs to cry and making dinner are both choices I hope you NEVER make again.

Here is the thing...if your husband wants them there, little you can do about it.

Same for you and those you want in the house.

While I wouldn't "push" you for a confrontation, especially in the early stages of the move back, I think it's something you need to start giving some thought to so you are not caught unprepared.

FF

What would be a healthier alternative?

[formflier]

when I say we don’t speak about nonsense, they retort “but you were in a hurry to marry our son at 18!”
2. Are you doing competitive sport to become an exotic dancer (father in law)? Wth?
 

Culture smulture...  You were raised differently and believe differently.  You can change (your choice).

They can change (or not..their choice).

I want to clarify something.  Can you give some word for word on a grandfather suggesting a granddaughter is training to become an exotic dancer?

There are jokes that are in bad taste (which is likely generous) and then there are more serious ways to characterize this.  I don't want to assume.

How often has this comment been made?

FF

[formflier]

 
I get it that your parents are involved in a way that you like.

I also hope it that it appears his parents are involved in ways that he likes (demanding you cook, calling you names, showing up unannounced)

There is still a basic thing in a relationship.  How is it that you get what you want and he doesn't?

I totally accept that you parents are hard working and supportive and that works for you.  What you'll never know is if they didn't fill that role...would your hubby grow up and fill the role.

A large part of maturity/maturing is that it has to be done.  A simple example is a child that is always provided with velcro shoes...never learns to tie shoelaces.  (do you see the analogy to your husband?)

He never "had to" do those roles...so he did other things.  (I'm well aware there is lots of nuance here)

FF

[snowglobe]

Culture smulture...  You were raised differently and believe differently.  You can change (your choice).

They can change (or not..their choice).

I want to clarify something.  Can you give some word for word on a grandfather suggesting a granddaughter is training to become an exotic dancer?

There are jokes that are in bad taste (which is likely generous) and then there are more serious ways to characterize this.  I don't want to assume.

How often has this comment been made?

FF

Both comments have been made repeatedly for close to 4 years now, only in a presence of other grandkids. D15 sport involves dancing, hence reference to the dance. Joke or not, it’s detrimental to her self esteem, as don’t speak about such nonsense. I’m disgusted that it’s coming from someone related to her. The way I interpret is minimizing her achievements in the eyes of his other grandkids, who are less successful. It also sets a stage for trying harder to impress him, which is standard in their family operation

[formflier]

Have you directly asked your father in law to STOP that joke specifically?

FF

[snowglobe]

I get it that your parents are involved in a way that you like.

I also hope it that it appears his parents are involved in ways that he likes (demanding you cook, calling you names, showing up unannounced)

There is still a basic thing in a relationship.  How is it that you get what you want and he doesn't?

I totally accept that you parents are hard working and supportive and that works for you.  What you'll never know is if they didn't fill that role...would your hubby grow up and fill the role.

A large part of maturity/maturing is that it has to be done.  A simple example is a child that is always provided with velcro shoes...never learns to tie shoelaces.  (do you see the analogy to your husband?)

He never "had to" do those roles...so he did other things.  (I'm well aware there is lots of nuance here)

FF

This is a profound observation. I need to think more on that. Meanwhile, let’s say they show up, he tells them it’s ok to stay, how do I own my reaction? If I take off for the day, he’d get mad that they didn’t get serviced and unleash ugly on me

[snowglobe]

Have you directly asked your father in law to STOP that joke specifically?

FF

I have asked them repeatedly, and now thinking of appropriate consequences

[formflier]

OK..and his response was?

Can you do some word for word?

Hint for future:  Ask once...then take action.

FF

[snowglobe]

OK..and his response was?

Can you do some word for word?

Hint for future:  Ask once...then take action.

FF

His response was a lack of thereof, completely ignoring my plea. This was happening many times and in other forms as well. Word for word:
“Now that she took xyz title, she can be quite entertaining, she should marry off to a rich (ethnicity) guy”
“That’s great that she is a (competitive sport) champion, they like girls with such pedigree at strip clubs”
Just few of the variations.
Or at the table s11 now, then much younger saying he doesn’t want something, father in law saying to him “shut up”. Me surprised and puzzled “we don’t speak to our children this way”, my uBPDh kicking me under the table “let it go”, and father in law smirking

[formflier]

OK...there is a basic choice that has to be made here.  Not a nuanced one.

Consider two paths.

1.  He can apologize to you and grand daughter and is welcome in your house, or if he does not, he is not welcome as far as you are concerned (your hubby is a different matter)

or

2.  You can publicly dissent and use this as a teaching point for your children..publicly..in front you children (and whoever else is there).

Biology doesn't seem to be a good excuse to "put up with".."enable".."allow" etc etc a person to suggest one of your children should be part of the paid sex industry.

Talk about devaluing women...

What your children see you "put up with" is a lesson to them.  That applies to all men in your life.

Perhaps I'm starting to get a better understanding of why your husband says bellicose things...

You can't change him or his dad (or his mother's reaction)...or anyone else, but you can change you and by extension send a message to your children about their value.

This is not something to be done rashly...

FF

[formflier]

Or at the table s11 now, then much younger saying he doesn’t want something, father in law saying to him “shut up”. Me surprised and puzzled “we don’t speak to our children this way”, my uBPDh kicking me under the table “let it go”, and father in law smirking

I would do some reflecting on what you apparently backed down here.  You deferred your reaction and protection of your children to your husband. 

I get it that your position in the house/power in the relationship is different than mine.  I've kicked misbehaving members of my wife's FOO out of our house before.  I've called police on them.

Most likely...we will be estranged for the rest of our lives.  I'm OK with that.  My life is so much simpler, better, with less toxicity in it.

It's a know "fact" or "condition" they are welcome back in our house with an apology and discussion of the rules at the start of their next visit.  They aren't going to visit.

FF

[snowglobe]

OK...there is a basic choice that has to be made here.  Not a nuanced one.

Consider two paths.

1.  He can apologize to you and grand daughter and is welcome in your house, or if he does not, he is not welcome as far as you are concerned (your hubby is a different matter)

or

2.  You can publicly dissent and use this as a teaching point for your children..publicly..in front you children (and whoever else is there).

Biology doesn't seem to be a good excuse to "put up with".."enable".."allow" etc etc a person to suggest one of your children should be part of the paid sex industry.

Talk about devaluing women...

What your children see you "put up with" is a lesson to them.  That applies to all men in your life.

Perhaps I'm starting to get a better understanding of why your husband says bellicose things...

You can't change him or his dad (or his mother's reaction)...or anyone else, but you can change you and by extension send a message to your children about their value.

This is not something to be done rashly...

FF

In a way, I think number one option can come out of number two. There is a learning moment for everyone in this case. If, or more when this would happen again I will get up from the table, look at my d15 and say that it’s ludicrous, no one is allowed to make sexual suggestions or devalue my child, as far as I’m concerned this get together is over, ask my d15 if she wants to go with me and leave the room. I will allow the bridge of possibility for an apology to me and her, but if it’s not going to happen I will speak to my uBPDh to make alternative arrangements at seeing his foo.

[snowglobe]

I would do some reflecting on what you apparently backed down here.  You deferred your reaction and protection of your children to your husband. 

I get it that your position in the house/power in the relationship is different than mine.  I've kicked misbehaving members of my wife's FOO out of our house before.  I've called police on them.

Most likely...we will be estranged for the rest of our lives.  I'm OK with that.  My life is so much simpler, better, with less toxicity in it.

It's a know "fact" or "condition" they are welcome back in our house with an apology and discussion of the rules at the start of their next visit.  They aren't going to visit.

FF

There has been a power struggle at what’s acceptable and what’s not. It’s been established that he can “override” me since he is the one paying the bills. In a way I feel that I have forsaken my core values, as well as allowing the treatment of myself. It’s the one to sit with. There could be possible consequences with standing up to them, but the cost of having them in my life is too high

[formflier]

  It’s been established that he can “override” me since he is the one paying the bills. In a way I feel that I have forsaken my core values, as well as allowing the treatment of myself. It’s the one to sit with. There could be possible consequences with standing up to them, but the cost of having them in my life is too high

This is a very insightful post.

I agree he overrode you and used bill paying as the reason.  Up until now you have gone along with it.

Compare the value of money to the value of the dignity of your child..

Once that is sorted out, your pathway will likely look much clearer.

FF

[snowglobe]

This is a very insightful post.

I agree he overrode you and used bill paying as the reason.  Up until now you have gone along with it.

Compare the value of money to the value of the dignity of your child..

Once that is sorted out, your pathway will likely look much clearer.

FF

How would a non BPD/heat escalating way of dealing with this look like? They make a remark/do something to push my boundary, I walk out and take the kid/kids with me? Running? Is it a form of fight of flight response? Calmly saying that the get together is over and it’s time for them to leave? Wouldn’t it take away my uBPDh’s right to be with them in his home.
I’m internally conflicted

[formflier]

You have the right to be in your home with your kids...without sacrificing your kids dignity.

Your husband has the right to be in your you and sacrifice...or attempt to sacrifice that dignity.

How does this play out?  If he starts asserting his rights and you start asserting yours...where does the law fall on this issue?  (I'm not suggesting it will go that far, but it is important to think things through to their logical conclusion, should it be pushed that far)

What happens when your husband realizes you are serious?  What has happened before?

FF

[snowglobe]

You have the right to be in your home with your kids...without sacrificing your kids dignity.

Your husband has the right to be in your you and sacrifice...or attempt to sacrifice that dignity.

How does this play out?  If he starts asserting his rights and you start asserting yours...where does the law fall on this issue?  (I'm not suggesting it will go that far, but it is important to think things through to their logical conclusion, should it be pushed that far)

What happens when your husband realizes you are serious?  What has happened before?

FF

Just now was a momentary testing of a kind. A friend called to tell me that a lavish gift he wanted to purchase for me many months before had arrived at the store. He inquired about it in the past and was put on a wait list. She happened to pick up her purchase there today and called me to convey the message. I wasn’t asking for it, but did not oppose. It’s one of those things that is nice to have, but completely unnecessary. I thanked her for the message and called uBPDh to tell him. He went stiff and started accusing me of diverting his attention and resources to unnecessarily spendings over the phone. I felt gaslighted. I tried to explain that I didn’t take liberty at calling the store or making inquiries. It’s something he had done in the past. He was short and curt, saying that those aren’t his priorities, that he now only wants a lavish mansion (the sales people and mutual friends didn’t get the memo of the values shifting). When he came home, I was visibly irritated (by his denying of asking and ordering it, and the fact that he told me to tell our mutual friend that she should never inquire regarding that matter, made me look stupid) not the fact that he isn’t buying what he had ordered. He proceeded to tell me that he was disappointed, disgusted and confused regarding my values. What?.  That my behaviour?. (Probably the fact that I didn’t tell the same friend off) lead his to believe that I am two faced and that I tell him that kids and stability is important, and instead material things matter to me more. Wow! I was lost for a few minutes, and then tried to explain, yes, I engaged in defending, arguing and trying to convince him. Which as you can imagine made him even angrier telling me that he is disgusted and doesn’t want to spend any time with me. The fact that last year he was at that store, with the same friend asking for the same product completely escaped his reality.
I took a few deep breath and told him I was glad that he asked me about my values. I told him that he doesn’t owe me anything, nor does he have to buy me any tangibles other then necessities. I thanked him for everything he had given me, and underlined the fact that he got it out of his own free will. I also told him that instead of buying me things, I want to be spoken to with respect, curtsy, in a calm manner, the same way he speaks to his partner or an equal, I don’t want to see intimidation in his facial expressions or tone of voice. And that the only people he is owing things to are his two children. I then left upstairs to study for my exam, which is a priority. He proceeded to make a remark as I was walking out of the room, but I didn’t catch it luckily. I’m just so confused. I know and stand behind what I know. In every day life I don’t ask for things like that, when he decides to apt his social status I go along with it, because, what the heck, it’s nice to be treated to something nice. However, I never take at the expense of a family budget or children’s/household wellbeing or debt making. For him to throw in my face that my values are all screwed is a very upsetting manner to suggest. Money can’t buy honesty, love and commitment. If I never went into psychology, and discovered the symptoms of BPD, then this place, no money would be able to save him from me walking out. In the same manner I wouldn’t leave him stricken with cancer, I don’t leave him because of BPD. Children’s health is another factor for sticking around. To suggest something so outrageous is hurtful and I didn’t realize slipping into jedaing. I’m fairly certain he didn’t hear most of my shpeel regarding my values, but that feeling “you have been with me close to 20 years, when you were broke, without a single prospect and I loved you” makes me want to attack him to prove my righteousness. I won’t. I will stick to studying. I won’t mention this “lavish gift” again, if our friend will ask again, I will just say that I can’t afford it and leave it at that. If she will continue pressing, I’ll tell her to readdress this question to uBPDh. He is ashamed to say that to her, so he wants to use me as his message boy.

[Harri]

This thread reached the post limit and has been split and locked.  Part 2 is here:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=335990.0