Deciding Parenting Allocation

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I believe my wife has BPD, things have been escalating for years, and I think it's time that we at least separate.  I'm working with a lawyer to set up a parenting plan.  I don't want to lose my kids.  I work two jobs to support my family.  My wife works part time, flexible jobs and during the summer, she doesn't have to go into work regularly.   I firmly believe that her actions toward me have escalated to abuse and counseling has also helped with that determination.  It appears to only be directed at me and not the kids.  I'm worried that if I'm not there, she will redirect it to the kids.  She has been a great mother.  However, part of me feels that I should try and get 50/50 custody so that I can give my kids a safe haven if their mother starts to put them through what I went through.  However, that means this summer, I would leave them at my place with my 15 year old to watch them while I go to work and my wife is at the house, alone because she doesn't have a job.  Like, it seems practical that my wife have more allocation. 

I already realize that moving out is going to exacerbate abandonment issues, and then not having the kids 50% of the time makes it worse.  I feel I'm in a no-win situation.

I know that no one can or should tell me what the right thing to do is, but is it appropriate for anyone to share stories they have seen on this situation?

[Wilkinson]

I believe my wife has BPD, things have been escalating for years, and I think it's time that we at least separate.  I'm working with a lawyer to set up a parenting plan.  I don't want to lose my kids.  I work two jobs to support my family.  My wife works part time, flexible jobs and during the summer, she doesn't have to go into work regularly.   I firmly believe that her actions toward me have escalated to abuse and counseling has also helped with that determination.  It appears to only be directed at me and not the kids.  I'm worried that if I'm not there, she will redirect it to the kids.  She has been a great mother.  However, part of me feels that I should try and get 50/50 custody so that I can give my kids a safe haven if their mother starts to put them through what I went through.  However, that means this summer, I would leave them at my place with my 15 year old to watch them while I go to work and my wife is at the house, alone because she doesn't have a job.  Like, it seems practical that my wife have more allocation. 

I already realize that moving out is going to exacerbate abandonment issues, and then not having the kids 50% of the time makes it worse.  I feel I'm in a no-win situation.

I know that no one can or should tell me what the right thing to do is, but is it appropriate for anyone to share stories they have seen on this situation?

[GaGrl]

How old are the children? Do they participate in organized summer activities. That could make a difference -- structured summer camp would mean they would not be with your wife all the time during the summer, nor would you need to have a 15 year old babysit.

If you want to pursue 50-50, start out with that goal in mind.

It's feasible to have a summer schedule different from the school-year schedule --if that is what is best for the children. Keep their needs at the forefront. Part of what you are saying sounds as if you are worrying about your wife being alone (Guilt).

[kells76]

Hey Wilkinson, welcome to Family Law... really glad you reached out for some support.

You've been through so much over the last decade plus -- I checked out some of your posts. You're doing a positive thing by trying to learn about what your kids need if you and your uBPDw (undiagnosed BPD-type wife) move forward with separation or divorce.

Want to share some more about your kids, if you have time? Ages? Ways you see the conflict affecting them? Some kids having an easier/harder time?

You are very thoughtful to realize that while your W may not be directly abusive to the kids right now, there's no guarantee about how she would treat the kids in the future. I want to encourage you to continue prioritizing what your kids need for safety, just like you've been working on so far.

While this may feel like a "pressure is on" situation, and your W's actions and huge emotions may seem to put a burden of "urgency" and "act now" on you, I want to also encourage you to "measure twice and cut once" if you know what I mean   Take some deep breaths, and allow yourself a little more time for strategic planning (as long as it's safe).

Sometimes, pwBPD (people with BPD or BPD-type behaviors) can "make us feel" like we have to do something NOW. When my DH (dear husband) and his xW (ex-wife) divorced, he felt like he had to let her have custody; that letting her have that would "smooth things over" and even though they couldn't be married, they could probably coparent OK. She ended up weaponizing the kids against him (i.e. having them say they didn't want to be with DH... and a lot more). So, you may feel an urgent need to get things settled, hoping that if she "gets what she wants", finally things will go smoothly. If you can work on some distress tolerance, and get good support, you can make it through those times without having to jump to an instant decision that might negatively impact you and the kids down the road.

Great job talking with a L (lawyer) this soon in the process.    You might have some feelings of having to "protect" your W when you talk with your L: "She's not a bad mom... overall she's great with the kids... maybe it would be better if they were with her when I'm at work..." Again, I want to encourage you -- not to "badmouth" or "dump" about your W to your L, but to be blunt, straightforward, and strategic with your L. You don't have to do the legwork for your W on your own $ with your own L. Use that space to advocate for your kids first and you second. 50/50 "sounds" fair but if you really think about your W, has "getting what she wanted" or "fairness" settled things down for her? And is it truly what's good for the kids?

More specifics -- sounds like you're troubleshooting ahead of time about childcare; makes sense. Your 15 year old must be your oldest? I get not wanting to leave a kid that age in charge of 3 other kids... of course, it's totally different than a 12 year old, but I get it. Time to get creative! Do you go to a church or community group at all, where you could ask for volunteers to watch the kdis? Any family in town? Coworkers who have older teens who want to babysit? It may take a little thinking outside the box, but child care doesn't have to be an either-or (15YO or wife). If it's "during your time", then it's your say. Are your parents around and wanting to do "grandparent-y" things? Do they have school friends with a stay-at-home parent? This board is a great place to get some creative ideas for solving practical problems. Let us know how we can help you brainstorm.

So... lots of questions, lots to think about. You are really starting in a good spot by having a L and pondering what's the best situation for your kids. It's OK to slow down, be really strategic, get documentation together, and not feel like you have to "jump now, look later". Hang in there. It's a hard road, but I promise it can get better.

Cheers;

kells76

[livednlearned]

I already realize that moving out is going to exacerbate abandonment issues, and then not having the kids 50% of the time makes it worse.

Your wife's abandonment issues are triggered all the time, they exist no matter what you do, whether you stay or leave or do backflips or shave your head. Her abandonment fears are exacerbated by intimacy because intimacy is about revealing our true selves to one another. Instead of feeling safe with intimacy, she feels fear. Her fear and anxiety are handled with anger and lashing out at you.

People with BPD often find someone they can assign blame for feelings that originate within. That's why your wife re-litigates what happened in August, September, December, October, January. She is trying to figure out where the source of her feelings of abandonment originate from, not realizing they are coming from her.

When you leave, it will simply confirm her distorted reality that someone else is the cause of her own abandonment of self and the feelings that go with it.

I feel I'm in a no-win situation.

You are likely at the beginning of a very challenging and ultimately profound period of self-growth that will in all likelihood redefine who you are, most of all to yourself. That can feel scary, and daunting at first.

Posting here, reaching out to a lawyer, making a decision to protect yourself and the kids, those are powerful signs that you are choosing to care about yourself.

When it comes to family court and the kids, it is more about who loses less. There is no winning in the true sense of the word. Other than the respite your kids will feel when they de-stress at your home, learning to feel what it's like to feel emotionally safe. Their nervous systems unwinds a bit, giving them something to compare.

Then they go back to mom's house where they will likely experience a subtle but devastating form of abuse called parental alienation, the pathogenic arm of disordered BPD parenting. If you can, read up on it and get ahead of it. Likely it's already happening. Dr. Craig Childress is a good source, so is Bill Eddy's Don't Alienate the Kids. Both books outline specific skills that are not intuitive and must be learned (and practiced). They changed my life and by extension, my son's.

Your wife's pathology will make it hard to do what's best for her and the kids. Being 10 steps ahead will give you an advantage that can actually help protect her from her own worst impulses.

One concern about legal separation is that you lose any advantage you might have. Doing well in court is about leveraging every advantage you have.

What do you anticipate she will do once you serve the papers?

[Wilkinson]

First of all, thank you for all the acronyms and definitions!

I have four kids.  Three boys (15, 12, 9) by birth and a daughter (9) by adoption.  The three youngest go to a theater camp in the summer that goes from 8:30-12:30 M-F.  I have flexible work and can do some work from home and in the evenings.  The apartment I'm looking into is a half mile away from my office.  So, if I did have to go in while kids are with me, I could literally be home in 2 minutes. We live 6 hours in any direction of any relatives, so they are out.  Our community is kind of limited.  It was all formed by uBPDw.  For lack of a better way of putting it, they are her advocates, because she functions really well in social situations and if things go sour, she switches friends.  I know there are some that will help with watching kids, because they are good friends.  

In all honesty it's not troubleshooting child care that is what concerns me.  It's the practicality of it.  My wife will be sitting home alone, while my kids may be with another person or by themselves while I'm at work.  I mean, if I need to find someone to watch them, it seems really logical to enlist their mother who has nothing to do at the same time. I need to talk to my lawyer about a summer schedule and one once school starts up.  I feel dumb making the argument that I should get my kids 50% of the time over the summer so they can spend a decent portion by themselves, being watched by someone else, or with me, but while I'm working.

I expect her to not agree to a parenting plan like this without a court battle.

I'm hoping what the scenario will be is that during this time of separation, things are tight, we live separately.  Through counseling, we both learn to cope and manage, I move back home and we learn how to live.  In that scenario, at 70-30 split or something would work.

The worst case, we end up divorcing, after my uBPDw has dealt with the loss of her relationship with her sister, and then her H, all the things she has projected on to me, will get projected on to my kids, so I want them to have a sizable time in a safe environment with their Dad. My understanding is that it will be hard to go from 70-30 to 50-50.  Maybe I'm wrong.  Maybe I'm wrong.  Maybe my concern for what she COULD do to the kids is being over emphasized.  I just don't ever want my kids to go through what I'm going through where you are constantly under attack.

Right now, this feels so painful. The heartbreak it took on her when I told her we need to separate was devastating. I mean what she has been doing is textbook abuse, but I also think it's because she has a disorder and not that she's evil.  She definitely fit's the description of, "I hate you so much, but I don't know what I'd do if I lost you."  The kids are upset.  I've tried other things to help our marriage where our family is still in tact (for probably too long), but I don't know any other way.  This legal process is so adversarial.  I hate this situation.

[Wilkinson]

livednlearned,

I need to call my lawyer again today, but last I talked we were going to put a parenting plan in place, but not file.  I know that if she refused to follow the plan, I can't call the police or anything.  I guess I really want to set up a situation where we can heal and come back and be a family.  My fear is that once we file a dissolution, even if it's just temporary with no divorce date set, it will start us down a legal road that only ends up in divorce. 

[livednlearned]

The heartbreak it took on her when I told her we need to separate was devastating.

What happened when you told her?

If she is BPD, I would assume that she is talking to lawyers and is preparing to get herself in a one-up position.

Like you said, court is adversarial. People with BPD can take to those environments like duck to water.

[Wilkinson]

So, kells76, you asked how it's affecting the kids.  Witnessing all the conflict, has had it's toll on them.  Our 12 year old has thrown up at school quite often.  We got an email from the school about their concern and that the other two youngest have been distracted at school.  My 12 year old has also had a lot of missing assignments.  He blames me for the problems and likes to take every opportunity to tell me he hates me or send me a nasty text. 

My wife has already been talking to lawyers.  She's met with three that I'm aware of. 

When I first told her, she started screaming, "No, no, no" then bargaining, "Just commit to 30 days of staying with the family.  30 days where were both all in.  I won't demand your phone anymore, I won't complain or criticize, just 30 days and we'll go from there." To then, anger, "You can't do this to us.  I told the kids we were going to start doing things as a family." to fighting.  "I will never let you have the kids, ever!".

Keep in mind, this is the same woman who dropped me off at the court house demanding I file for divorce, and left me there.  She's thrown my stuff out of the house on several occasions.  She has actually said, "I know I'm being mean and I'm going to get meaner until you file for divorce."  I mean I could go on.  The duplicity has messed up my mind.

As I said, I know this will hurt her.  However, she is hurting now and so are the rest of us with no hope that things will get better as they are. 

[mart555]

It will likely be a rocky ride before it gets better.  And you cannot really prepare.  I'm now armpits deep in my situation and I still don't really see the light at the end of the tunnel.  She made mistakes along the way which is what is helping me.  I hope that you have a good relationship with your kids because you'll need it.

The thing that bugs me the most is that mine NEVER takes the blame for anything.  It's all everyone else'ss fault.  She feels like we're all against her while it's not really the case.  Split assets, sign the papers and move on.  But no, entitlement kicks in so nothing goes anywhere.   Prepare to feel guilty for a while but hang on, it does get better. 

Definitely go 50-50.  She'll likely take it on the kids (or one of them) since she'll need a new caretaker and someone to blame... unless she keeps contact with you and keeps blaming you

[kells76]

Hey again Wilkinson;

Re: your S12 (12 year old son): SD13 (my now-13 year old stepdaughter) played that same role when conflict was really high between DH & his xW. Lots of "You're not my family", "You always get whatever you want", "I want to ride with Mom", etc. Long story short things are much better and healthier with SD13 & DH now, but it took counseling and a lot of skill building on DH's part.

Are any of your kids seeing a counselor? Talking with the school counselor? This will be so important for their mental health. If you are still married then you don't need your W's permission to take them, though often pwBPD try to sabotage counseling relationships if they don't feel the "buy-in". It sort of had to be framed for DH's xW as "The kids are struggling, so have DH work on his relationship with the kids in counseling". This is actually a win. xW is also the kind of person who "has to have her say" so that's what brought her to the table with the C (counselor) -- "sharing her side of the story". Maybe pick a list of 3 counselors that you know are experienced and good, then let your W pick. That could minimize her trying to undermine your choice.

Skills-wise, as you move into this new phase of your family, you are going to have to learn some pretty non-intuitive parenting skills. Often we want to JADE to our kids ("Justify, Argue (or accuse?), Defend, Explain"). I.e. when SD13 accused DH of "always getting what he wanted", his temptation was to say something like "That's not true, I don't always get what I want, here are examples A B and C". Instead, he needed to turn the question back around to focus on how she felt: "Oh my, that probably wouldn't feel very good to you if that were true...what are some of those times when you felt that way" (or something). One reputable child psycholgist, Dr. Craig Childress, calls those skills "jiu-jitsu parenting". Instead of "fighting" our kids' wild accusations head on, he advocates being open to criticism/conversation, turning the focus back on how the kids are feeling, not explaining why the kids are wrong (even though we know that a lot of their accusations stem from the other parent), and trying to remain, open, warm, and unreactive. Tough stuff but it has helped us so, so, so much.

Try this link: www.drcachildress.org/asp/admin/getFile.asp?RID=63&TID=6&FN=pdf

and let us know if you want to practice walking through any typical situations that your S12 might bring up. While you can't change his mom (and the toxic messages that she may be feeding him), when you change your responses, it makes a big difference.

All the best;

kells76

[ForeverDad]

I believe my wife has BPD, things have been escalating for years... I firmly believe that her actions toward me have escalated to abuse and counseling has also helped with that determination.

It appears to only be directed at me and not the kids.  I'm worried that if I'm not there, she will redirect it to the kids.  She has been a great mother.

Let me address your comment emphasized above.  That's not an uncommon statement.  Many newer members here express that thought at first.  Partly that's our natural inclination to be overly fair, a reflection of our personalities.  However, let's take a closer look at the matter and likely you'll see why I highlighted this comment.

You started out by saying BPD-related problems have been escalating for years, even rising to abuse levels.  I'm fairly sure this hasn't been fully hidden from the kids, right?  Although many people with BPD (pwBPD) manage to hide much of their worst behaviors from the public, usually behind closed doors or in private or isolated scenarios (such as while in vehicles or inside the home) they let loose and let it all hang out.  And too often in the presence of the kids.  Even if the kids aren't right there witnessing it firsthand, the walls have ears.  The kids surely know more about the conflict and misbehaviors than you imagine.  They may avoid admitting it but they do know.

Ponder too the example she (and you) have been setting for them.  Do they see her making unreasonable and inconsistent demands, quick ultimatums and not-so-subtle threats?  Do they see you walking on eggshells, avoiding some subjects lest she overreact and appeasing the beast, so to speak?  While of course you realize this isn't a normal home environment, ponder what the children will do when they're grown and seeking out their own mates and relationships.  Will they be inclined to become someone like Dad (seeking someone like Mom)?  Or will they be inclined to become someone like Mom (seeking someone like Dad)?  That's often how the dysfunction gets passed down to the next generations.

So recognizing these aspects, ponder whether you can still say she's a 'great' mother?  Yes, she may give then a lot of attention, prepare meals, keep them clothed, get them to school on time, and more.  You're right not to ignore the good parts.  But you also know that in many other areas she's actually not setting a great example.

You might want to confirm this topic in a future counseling session.  (Of course, this aspect may not be one to share with your spouse.)

[Wilkinson]

Wow, ForeverDad, you make a good point.  It really hit me.  Some people are more task oriented and other more relational oriented.  I'm more task oriented, and my wife has done a great job of completing tasks for our kids.  However, yes, they have had front row seats to some epic tantrums.

[worriedStepmom]

My SD11's mother is uBPD.  Mom loves her daughter very much.  Mom tries hard to give SD what she physically needs.  Mom is absolutely incapable of meeting SD's emotional needs, although she thinks she is doing an amazing job at that.  She has parentified SD so that SD twists herself into knots to meet mom's emotional needs.   Mom also does subtle parental alienation - but that finally stopped at SD's counselor's insistence.  On the surface, mom is a great parent.  In reality...she's not.

Counseling for SD has really helped.  Counseling for your kids who are angry about the divorce and lashing out will also help.  All kids struggle with divorce and can blame the parent who left. 

As for summer...you should stop worrying.  If the kids are in a half day of camp, that means they will only be home alone about half a day...you are less than 2 minutes away, and your 15 year old is capable of watching them.  My kids (9-13) love being home alone - they watch tv and play video games together.

You are under no obligation to offer the kids to your wife whenever you are busy.  You are under no obligation to fill her time when she is sitting home alone...even if you have a baby sitter to watch the kids.  On her time with them, she gets to make the decisions.  On your time with them, YOU get to make the decisions, including whether they stay home alone together.   Part of separation and divorce is that no one is entitled to the kids for any longer than the court documents specify.

[GaGrl]

This is an important time, as all the parenting arrangements take shape. It's good you are thinking about how your children are being affected and could be affected in future.

At the other end of the spectrum from parental alienation is what my husband experienced with his children by the time they were all teens -- each one of them were asking why he didn't divorce their mother (her behavior was blatant and extreme). Anything you can set up for counseling support now will pay off for their emotional health later.

[mart555]

Let me address your comment emphasized above.  That's not an uncommon statement.  Many newer members here express that thought at first.  Partly that's our natural inclination to be overly fair, a reflection of our personalities.  However, let's take a closer look at the matter and likely you'll see why I highlighted this comment.

I fully agree with ForeverDad.  I used to want 50-50 because "she was a great mother" but after being separated for 6 months (due to assault..) I realized that yes, she would be a great mom during good hours but the amount of stress the kids lived through was unbelievable.  My kids are now relaxed (except when there's mom stuff happening..) and I realize, along with my 14yo son, how a lot of his health issues were caused by stress.  He's never slept so well.  I had a chat with him about the short visits with mom and how long visits turn miserable because she gets tired, and how it wasn't like this in the past when she was with us because she could spend the day with her.  He said "it's because we were used to it". And he's fully right.

I couldn't believe that my mother and sister would say that 50-50 didn't make sense because she had a negative effect on the kids.   Well after a few months, I realize it.  And I'm going for way more than 50-50.  The kids need stability in their life.