No contact order with father of my child

[Empath12]

My boyfriend/ex-boyfriend?, most importantly the father of my child, has BPD. Very complicated history(surprise!). I am here because I am confused and lost and feel as though nobody in my life understands or cares to understand his illness. I have tolerated abuse and not sure how much longer I can. The books on BPD and domestic violence have helped. I am so empathetic it is hard for me to walk away. Most recently, he has asked me to write a letter to the judge asking to remove the no contact order placed by the court so he can come to the house to spend time with our daughter. I found the courage to say no since his rage and unpredictability is not being treated or managed. So now it is somehow my fault that my daughter doesn't have her father in her life. I am so tired of being blamed. The guilt is awful. He cries, apologizes, says all the right things and I know he means it at the time but when we are together, at any given time he could have a trigger and dissociates threatening me, terrible things. Later he doesn't believe me when I tell him what he says and does. He gets so hurt when I don't immediately forgive him and go back to normal. I really just still feel so guilty for saying no to him about the no contact and not just letting him come home. How do I overcome the guilt. I know he is truly hurting.

[Panda39]

Hi Empath12,

I'm so happy you found our group, we all have someone with BPD/BPD Traits in our lives so we "get it".

It sounds like you are experiencing what we call FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt) or emotional blackmail from your exbf.  This is a common tool used by folks with BPD to get what they want.

More on FOG...
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=82926.0

For me it helps to recognize the FOG, it makes it easier to not take things as personally when you can recognize the behavior and that it has more to do with the other person than it does with you.

As a mom myself I'm here to tell you that your job as a mom is to protect your daughter even if that means protecting her from her father.  You are doing the right thing in that regard.  This is what I would focus on.  Frankly the needs of your daughter out weigh the needs of her dad.  Your daughter is depending on you and your ex is an adult who can take care of himself (as much as he would like to have you believe otherwise...and we are back to FOG)

What I see you doing is setting boundaries which is healthy and I know it's hard because you care about your ex.  This tells me that you are both smart and caring.  It sounds like your heart maybe hasn't caught up to your head yet.

How old is your daughter?  How is she doing with all of this?

Below is a link to the "Lessons" portion of this board with tons of information you may find helpful (some of which you are already doing  ) You might want to check out Lesson 5 which is about raising Resilient Kids.   

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=182254.0

I know others will be along soon with their ideas, suggestions and support.

Take Care, 
Panda39

[livednlearned]

Hi Empath12,

I had to prevent my son's father from having an active role in his life, too. It's really hard, for everyone

Do you feel you're getting pressure from friends/family to remove the no contact order?

I admire you for having the courage to keep the no contact order in place. That's a hard choice to make, alone. And it sounds like your ex goes through a tender cycle, which makes it extra hard.

How much contact does your ex have with you? Do you feel less contact would be better?

[GaGrl]

Is the No Contact Order in place for you and your daughter, or just you?

[ForeverDad]

While we don't know the extent of the No Contact order, typically post-relationship contact when an acting-out PD is involved is limited to the practical issues with parenting such as schedule matters, exchange details, child support and similar, nothing more.  Your relationship with him is Over.

I wrote 'Over' because unless he is in intensive therapy diligently applied long term, you can't risk getting back into a relationship again.  Just too risky.  Be aware that he may behave better when you've been apart for a while but that does not mean he's on the Road to Recovery.  BPD is a disorder most evident in close relationships.  If you get back together (or weaken good boundaries) then it will get bad again.

Your home is your turf, your safe place.  Stay in control of your home.  If there are to be exchanges then he does not come past your entrance door.  Even better, select a neutral exchange location.

If supervised visitation is ordered, then weigh carefully your options.  Should you supervise, probably not advisable considering the No Contact order, then best to do do it at a neutral location.  Also problematic is if he volunteers one of his friends or relatives to supervise, there's risk they make fake the supervision task.  Best is having a professional agency handle it but usually there are fees.

You must keep in mind that you're not the bad guy (or bad gal).  It is all part of his Consequences.  He's an adult and that's his mess.

I get the impression your child is very young?  I also get the impression there are no parenting orders or schedules (yet)?

[Empath12]

Thanks to all responding! Yes our daughter is 13 months old. He was arrested after a violent rage when she was 5 months old. Although episodes prior. After a fit of violence tearing the kitchen up w her watching and crying, I tried to get us out amd managed to get us in the car and start driving. He Chased after us jumped in my moving car with her in the back seat, started to strangle me. I screamed loudest and longest I could until he came to and let go. I screamed til he got out. When this happens, its like he is not there and nothing can stop.him. then he started calling me minutes after apologizing begging me to come home which I didnt answer calls just drove to police. It was his 3rd domestic violence charge, 1st w me. He did jail, got out 1 month ago.. No contact on both. As you all know the hardest thing is he has periods.of normalcy, remorse regret, shame, he will.just sob sometimes when he looks at our daughter because he has failed her. He truly tries.to get help but the health.insurance and access is hard and taking forever. He really is trying amd says he is ready to face this do the therapy and meds amd go.to his weekly group, lifelong. I do believe his violence in front.of her was his wake up call. He is on 2.5 years probation. He feels.bad he hasnt been present for his daughter this far and he is tryimg to fix it. He is so good w her and she adores him. We havent been living together but. Still .ignoring.the no contact. little things here and there happening..and this past week it escalated.. something about a sink drain, a baby gate, and cleaning up noodles, u know the usual! He didnt secure the baby gate, she tried to pull herself up w it and fell straight backwards. Next thing I know I am getting blamed because I did not correct him on how to secure.it, even though if.id had corrected.him, I would have got yelled at for that. I am constantly.in no win situations..over noodles and dishes. Anyway it turned to swearing at.me if.front.of her, calling.me.names, and saying he should have  choked.me.out. I decided right then and there that was my limit and that my daughter will no longer witness tjese things and that it may not have affected her too bad yet, right ? But has to stop.NOW. i.finally got.him to leave and leave his keys. 2 days later he asks me to remove no contact and I said no. And now I STILL feel guilty. Thanks.for letting me.ramble and tell.my story. As im typing he just texted me apologizing for becoming angry when.i said no amd that I reserve the right to say no amd.that he will.continue his sobriety and will.call.his.insurance company Monday so he can straighten out mental.health. coverage. . u all.just witnessed this true rollercoaster . how long will.i.keep.doing this.i can't let.my daughter see one.more second.of emotional.or physical.abuse. I am.using phone I apologize.for. messy typing. And yes his mom wants me to remove no contact and she says we just need a date.night. good grief. I was so hopeful when a doctor finally.gave him the BPD diagnosis years ago but little good that paper diagnosis has done. Thanks for listening. He is living in a house that.is under renovation that is not appropriate for our toddler..to.visit.him there so that is why he asked.for it to be removed so he can visit her and me at.my house and not feel.paranoid about.police. ugh.

[Empath12]

As I re-read, I am so grateful for your responses. Correct, I am first and foremost a mother and it is in the best Interest.of her that he and him remain apart. It has already been proven that there are not significant enough changes for me to stay. BUT,how do you tell someone you love that it is over when you know being abandoned by you is their #1 fear? On top of that weight, I have to try to.manage my own grief from the loss of this person and relationship, and deal with the loneliness. I have been telling myself if he can do 6 months of successful probation, therapy and medication, then there may be hope for us. Thoughts?

[mart555]

Buy this book:  https://www.amazon.com/Stop-Caretaking-Borderline-Narcissist-Drama/dp/1442238321

Read it then decide.  It's not easy. Don't fear the unknown. Think about yourself.  It's hard but worth it.  Well, I hope. I'm still navigating the nightmare.  I frequently had doubts and felt guilty but my sister put me back on track. Do you see yourself growing old with him?  If not..

[Empath12]

What if I end it and he gets in another abusive relationship? The concern is if my daughter spends time with him alone (let's say he gets her every other weekend), I cannot protect her from his rages or witnessing abuse with another partner. I am sure I could get full custody from the court and make sure visits are supervised, but I am not sure I want to do that. I feel that may make things worse. He does not fight me on time with her and he would not fight me on custody so I don't really think its necessary to go through court. Or do I do it anyway? I am not concerned of their one on one time together and I don't have a problem with that, it is just if you add a romantic relationship into the equation.

Anyway, that is one of my biggest fears of ending the relationship- not being able to protect her when she is with him for visits if he gets in another relationship. And I really do want them to have a relationship so I want them to be able to spend time together.

[livednlearned]

how do you tell someone you love that it is over when you know being abandoned by you is their #1 fear?

I would look at this from his perspective: "Empath12 feels tender/caves in/unblocks her boundary whenever I do ______. Therefore, I will keep doing this until she gives me what I want."

[worriedStepmom]

Empath12, do you see a therapist for yourself?  It sounds like you've been through an awful lot - that is a very scary level of domestic violence!  And he's still targeting you, for emotional abuse at least.

Add in your justified fears for your daughter's safety and the pressure from other family members - that's so much to have on your shoulders.

A good therapist can help you work through all of this and help you get out of the FOG that was mentioned.

I also think it's great that you want your daughter and her father to have a relationship...but I'd shift your thinking a little bit so that it is "you want your daughter to have a HEALTHY relationship with her father."  That means the unhealthy bits need to be cut off.  I'm a stepmom.  My SD11's mom likely has BPD.  My husband got primary custody of SD last summer, and SD now spends a LOT less time with her mom.  Yet their relationship is better than it ever was.  The boundaries that H and the court has drawn around SD help to protect SD from mom's outbursts, which means SD can feel more emotionally safe when she does get to see her mom. Mom isn't under as much stress (parenting is stressful to her), so mom is more stable when SD is with her and enjoys SD's company more.  It's a win-win for everyone - even though mom complains that we've stolen her daughter away, she acknowledges that their relationship is stronger.

It would be ideal if your ex can get help and recover and be the great parent that he wants to be.  That won't happen quickly - BPD is not an easy disorder to recover from.  In the meantime, just remember that measures you take to protect your daughter actually do help to improve her relationship with him, even if on the surface it may not seem that way.

[ForeverDad]

What if I end it and he gets in another abusive relationship? The concern is if my daughter spends time with him alone (let's say he gets her every other weekend), I cannot protect her from his rages or witnessing abuse with another partner.

He is an adult and no one will stop him from having other relationships.  That is largely out of your control.  Are you thinking that if you stay with him that you'll be in control and avoid abuse, rages and dissociative incidents?  You know that's impossible.

Also, please be aware that though alternate weekends is a tyical court outcome, you have a lot of influence over the details.  I was stuck with alternate weekends but fortunately it was a full 72 hours from Friday 6 pm to Monday 6 pm.  Essentially it was after school Friday to before school Monday.  Many here sought shortened alternate weekends.  Some were just during the daytime once per weekend, especially if the ex couldn't handle the children for very long.  Other schedules have started Saturday and then ended sometime Sunday afternoon.  In your case you could cautiously start him off with limited time and over time ramp it longer as appropriate.

You can't completely manage to avoid all troubling scenarios or incidents.  You just do your reasonable best as an increasingly informed, educated and peer-supported parent and then proceed.  Most here found that the first order was a bit like swiss cheese and usually had to be tweaked to handle the reinterpretations and unexpected loopholes created by the Ex.

Try to stop worrying about the future and the what-ifs.  We cannot {fully} predict the behavior of BPDs. You can try as much as you want but they'll always surprise you.

[StillHopeful73]

Welcome Empath12. I'm so sorry that you and your daughter are going through this. Your words bring back a lot of memories. My BPD ex assaulted me in July 2012 while we were in the car. Our daughter was 10 months old and in the backseat. He was charged later that week and there was a restraining order against him. He disappeared for awhile and then slowly would occasionally try to challenge the order. While I was waiting for the criminal court session in the coffee shop area of the courthouse, he walked by me a few feet away staring at me the whole time. He ran up to my car one day and put a gift inside while I was inside a friend's home. In the end, he ended up getting a criminal record as he had done this with others previously (his lawyer tried to hide it but it came out so the judge was not happy).

First of all, you are doing the right thing for you and your daughter by taking action. My best advice would be that if you leave, to get a good lawyer who is used to dealing with this type of person and also for you to get a good counselor/therapist to help support you through this. I totally get it, I didn't find my family understood (or understands). The first words out of my mom's mouth when I told her I was going to court to fight this were "But with a criminal record he won't be able to work and provide child support." Hm, well I think having him held accountable is a tad more important than the financial side of things. Wow. Other family members have said such things as "He seems so nice and offers to help us with things sometimes. I know he's done some awful things to you but it's hard to say no." I've just come to realize that these people are never going to understand nor will they have to deal with the roller coaster that this man has had me on the past few years.

Though I have faith that people can change, I know firsthand that my ex hasn't. And I don't think he ever will. People with BPD can apparently change but they have to acknowledge that they have a problem and also have to be willing to put in the time and effort. He still sees himself as the victim. It is always someone else's fault. So I have to do as much as I can to protect our daughter and myself from the emotional upheaval caused by dealing with such a person.

One of the hardest things for me was the idea that at some point he was going to be seeing our daughter every 2nd weekend without me there to protect her. Though I wasn't concerned about him doing anything directly to her, I was worried that when he started dating that our daughter would get caught in the cross-fire. What I had to realize was that this is/was out of my control and it was inevitable. My ex went on to date someone for 4 years starting in 2013 and to be honest, once I got to know her I felt good about her because she was a caring person and a good mom. Their relationship seemed to be great. Well 2 years ago they broke up and when they did she disclosed that things hadn't been all that great at times and there were plenty of unhealthy things that happened over the years. She said she is certain that I wouldn't have wanted our daughter to be there at those times. So, like I said, he will NEVER change.

I often wonder what would have happened if I stayed since, like you, I thought about it so that I could protect our daughter. But in all honesty, not only would have that been bad for my mental health, quality of life and self-esteem, I quite likely would be dead. Him assaulting me was only the 2nd physical altercation we had (with LOTS of verbal abuse) so I'm sure had I stayed the cycle would have continued and the next event would have escalated, and so on. Not to mention the negative effects of our daughter seeing him treat me that way. Though it was terrifying and sad, ending it was the absolute best decision for me and our daughter.

What I will tell you is that having a solid court order that addresses small details is absolute KEY in dealing with someone like this. My ex was pretty quiet over the years while with his girlfriend. But had I not had the court order that was put into place right around the time of his criminal record, I wouldn't have the protection that I have right now. I've been having plenty of problems with him the past couple of years and that order protects us in some ways. All I can say is thank god for my lawyer.

So big hugs to you and sending you plenty of positive vibes. You have found a good site here and you aren't alone. There is fantastic advice here from people who have been through it and can relate.

[I Am Redeemed]

According to the National Domestic Violence Hotline website, strangling someone is one of the greatest predictors of future homicide.

I would suggest you not allow him into your home to visit with your daughter, especiallyif there is a No Contact order currently in place between the two of you.

I posted on your other thread about how I lost custody of my five oldest children due to domestic violence in my r/s with my ex. The actual reason given for CPS removing my children from my custody as well as his was that they determined that there was a current No Contact order in place that I was ignoring. Now, that actually wasn't true; he had been arrested for assaulting me the year before and there was a No Contact order placed between us at that time. It was dropped when he pled guilty, and he was put on probation. However, at the time of the CPS investigation, he had a warrant for failing to show up to court for a review of his probation. They knew that, and they called the court to see if the No Contact order was still intact. The court clerk erroneously told them that if he missed the court date, the NC was still valid, and they used that as the basis to take my children. It's been six years, and I do not have them back. My sister was eventually awarded Guardianship, and my kids still live with her, even though I have full custody of my youngest son.

Even after that, I stayed in the r/s because he said all the right things and I believed he would get help and change. He did not. In the fall of 2017, I left again, this time for good, and he served nine months in jail for strangling me, clawing me, hitting me, and threatening me with a hatchet while he stood over me as I held my crying son.

When he got out of jail, I tried to let him visit with our son because I felt guilty for "keeping him away from him". He used those visits to apply pressure to me to return to the relationship. Eventually, he sexually assaulted me during a visit and disabled my vehicle so I could not take my son and leave. I sought help from local dv services and went no contact for good.

I would advise you to allow the courts to put him on supervised visits with as little contact as possible with you, and get some support from dv services and a trauma-focused therapist. Do not put yourself and your daughter at risk. If you continue to let him guilt you into having contact while there is an active no contact order, it could have serious consequences. If you let him guilt you into dropping the no contact order, and then he assaults you again, it could have serious consequences.

Your bf's relationship with your daughter is NOT your responsibility. It is his. It sounds like he is manipulating you into lessening the consequences for him. Maybe he really is sorry, and if he is, then he will understand that he will have to accept the consequences for his behavior and work very hard to be the kind of father that she deserves.

I realized that what I thought was true remorse in my ex was actually only regret, and he regretted what he did largely because of the consequences he had to face as a result- not the damage that he caused to me or to our children.

[ForeverDad]

I often wonder what would have happened if I stayed since, like you, I thought about it so that I could protect our daughter. But in all honesty, not only would have that been bad for my mental health, quality of life and self-esteem, I quite likely would be dead. Him assaulting me was only the 2nd physical altercation we had (with LOTS of verbal abuse) so I'm sure had I stayed the cycle would have continued and the next event would have escalated, and so on. Not to mention the negative effects of our daughter seeing him treat me that way. Though it was terrifying and sad, ending it was the absolute best decision for me and our daughter.

What I will tell you is that having a solid court order that addresses small details is absolute KEY in dealing with someone like this... All I can say is thank god for my lawyer.

If you remain with the misbehaving parent, then your children would always be in that unhealthy, dysfunctional environment.  They might even come to consider it 'normal'.  That's why so many here with a pwBPD marriage or relationship have ended the relationship once they accepted the other person was continuing in Denial, erratic behaviors and sabotaging obstructions.  Yes, the children probably will have some level of contact with the ex while you're not there.  But... (1) That was the case before it ended, after all, you have to sleep and go off to work, etc.  (2)  With you having a separate stable home they will be able to see the difference between the parents and model your better parenting.  Some day they'll be grown and choosing their own relationships and life partners.  You want them to choose healthy relationships and not be accustomed to just two unhealthy alternatives: appeasing versus controlling.