CoParenting Counseling Update

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Hello Everyone,
Its been awhile and I thought I should give everyone an update.  Our co-parenting counselor told me and the mother of my child that he does not see anything too drastically wrong with our co-parenting relationship, we able to communicate for the best interest of our child.
Surprisingly enough exbpd mirrored everything I said to a T.  I said well I think its the best interest of my son to do this and then the exbpd mirrored me on that topic, has anyone ever had their ex do this.  I was surprised, she was able to agree with me on a lot of things and even made up stories to mirror me, I know she lied about half the things that she said.
The first couple of sessions where rocky but I know that the co parenting counselor was not a help because she truly wasn't into it.
So my next question, will the exbpd ever admit that their actions where why the relationship failed.  For instance ex has told me about the numerous things her parents did and abused her growing up, exbpd then asked why I have hatred toward parents and it blew me away.  Does she not realize the stuff that she says. 

[Newyoungfather]

Hello Everyone,
Its been awhile and I thought I should give everyone an update.  Our co-parenting counselor told me and the mother of my child that he does not see anything too drastically wrong with our co-parenting relationship, we able to communicate for the best interest of our child.
Surprisingly enough exbpd mirrored everything I said to a T.  I said well I think its the best interest of my son to do this and then the exbpd mirrored me on that topic, has anyone ever had their ex do this.  I was surprised, she was able to agree with me on a lot of things and even made up stories to mirror me, I know she lied about half the things that she said.
The first couple of sessions where rocky but I know that the co parenting counselor was not a help because she truly wasn't into it.
So my next question, will the exbpd ever admit that their actions where why the relationship failed.  For instance ex has told me about the numerous things her parents did and abused her growing up, exbpd then asked why I have hatred toward parents and it blew me away.  Does she not realize the stuff that she says. 

[Julian]

will the exbpd ever admit that their actions where why the relationship failed.

I literally waited years for such admission. Verbal, written, done through an expressive dance routine... I would have accepted anything.

One day it came, an e-mail describing how it came from the depth of her soul and how she was sorry for the all the manipulation and vicious behaviour (I had the whole "my parents abused me" excuse from her for years before that, quite openly in my case).

The first feeling when you find their admittance, is relief. You find validation, vindication; that you weren't imagining all of this. Then wonder followed by sadness, then ultimately anger that if they knew this roller coaster was derailing why couldn't they do anything to stop it?

It didn't matter in the end though because:

• You tend to move on in life and pick up the shattered pieces off the floor.
• More likely than not they will shortly resume service and don that mask once more (that's what happened to me at least).

It's a little like "The Old Man and the Sea" with this exbpd admittance; you search for it for so long, yet by the time you have it (if you're 'lucky') you'll find there's far too little of it left to make anything. Too little, too late.

[Turkish]

I knew in the r/s about her serial cheating and beating father. It took the space after our r/s for her to describe things and I realized that her mother is likely a BPD Waif, and engaged in emotional incest.  Recently, I asked her if she was going to tell her mother about a rift between her and her little sister and my ex said "no, my mom would paint herself the victim."

I also received apologies, but they were self centered and went back to "I learned this..." or "but my parents' marriage!" What she grew up with.  The apologies were slightly validating, but in the end irrelevant for parenting our kids. That is the focus. Kids need us.

[Newyoungfather]

In our co-parenting class I tried to reason with her, saying how do you expect me to like your parents when you said they abused you growing up, I just got the blank stare back and she said nothing.  Its almost like shes oblivious to the stuff she does and how it harms our child.  I really don't know how to get through to her...

[MeandThee29]

The first feeling when you find their admittance, is relief. You find validation, vindication; that you weren't imagining all of this. Then wonder followed by sadness, then ultimately anger that if they knew this roller coaster was derailing why couldn't they do anything to stop it?

It didn't matter in the end though because:

• You tend to move on in life and pick up the shattered pieces off the floor.
• More likely than not they will shortly resume service and don that mask once more (that's what happened to me at least).

It's a little like "The Old Man and the Sea" with this exbpd admittance; you search for it for so long, yet by the time you have it (if you're 'lucky') you'll find there's far too little of it left to make anything. Too little, too late.

Same feelings here when I got an admittance. If he loved me, why did it take so long? I finally came to the conclusion that it took so long because he didn't love me. People who love each other don't ever treat each other like that. They just don't. They may hurt each other here-and-there, but they don't harm each other like he did.

My admittance was for period of time that was over-the-top and led to our final separation. I took that for what it was and don't expect anything more. Despite that admittance, I refused to reconcile on his terms, and he started the divorce process shortly after that. Why would I ever open myself up to anything like that again without some accountability? Why should I trust him at all?

I've said this here before here, but my lawyer commented at the beginning that sometimes the process really shows people for who they are. I didn't quite believe it. I figured we'd propose things, compromise, agree to drop, etc. etc. I thought it would be business-like. Nope. Gotta dig it up again and show who's boss. His lawyer even insults my lawyer. My lawyer just laughs it off and says that it's pointless to act that way. Yup, pointless. Make it a legal transaction and move on. Oh well.

[kells76]

Hi NYF!

Surprisingly enough exbpd mirrored everything I said to a T.  I said well I think its the best interest of my son to do this and then the exbpd mirrored me on that topic

Any way you can leverage this? What if, in the next session, with the CPC thinking "Oh, NYF and xW get along so well", you put something like this on the table:

"I'm so glad we're on the same page for Son! Let's get this agreement in writing. Then, moving forward after counseling, we'll have the same thing to reference, so we don't get confused."

I'm suspecting your xW is playing nice and agreeable in front of the CPC -- saying literally whatever words will make her look good, even agreeing with you -- and then doesn't plan to follow through when the counseling is done.

If she's really on board with your suggestions, and truly believes it's best for your son, then she should have no problem signing something with you... right?

Maybe it's time to try a "double bind" -- make her do the work of explaining why, exactly, she would verbally agree with all your ideas and then balk at signing it. Especially if the thing to sign would hold both of you equally (i.e. "Both NYF and xW agree to X, Y, and Z for son").

Have her do the legwork in front of the CPC about why she shouldn't sign exactly what she verbally agreed on.

[ForeverDad]

In our co-parenting class I tried to reason with her, saying how do you expect me to like your parents when you said they abused you growing up, I just got the blank stare back and she said nothing.  Its almost like shes oblivious to the stuff she does and how it harms our child.  I really don't know how to get through to her...

A few years ago someone made a post with an explanation why our disordered spouses and ex-spouses don't listen to us and I found it so intriguing that I've repeated it in some of my responses.  It was explained that we were or had been in a very close relationship — BPD is vastly more evident in close relationships — and the perceived baggage of the relationship made it exceedingly difficult for the disordered person to get past that hurdle to actually listen.

The professionals usually can maintain an emotionally neutral stance and they're more likely to get more response, at least at first until the triggered responses take over.

[Newyoungfather]

@ForeverDad, are you saying that she still has baggage from our past relationship that she can't see past.  She has told me so many times how she's moved on and is happy with her new relationship.  She is very bitter towards me and I always wondered why, has anyone ever attempted to end their partners bitterness and apologize.

[Newyoungfather]

@Kells76
ExBPD already said that all agreements she has to run by her attorney before having them signed into a custody agreement.

[kells76]

ExBPD already said that all agreements she has to run by her attorney before having them signed into a custody agreement.

OK... hmmm... she could be trying to delay, then. "Sure, I love the agreements... I just have to have L look at them" i.e. L will never look at them.

Not sure how to make this happen, but I wonder if you can hold her feet to the fire about making that happen in parallel to the CPC. I.e., don't let the CPC end before things are signed. In fact, if she keeps dragging her feet about a signable custody agreement, maybe bring that up during the CPC meetings somehow: "I'm confused; we agreed here in front of the C that X was good for son. Help me understand why Z isn't happening"

Also, if you have a L, maybe you draft up everything you've agreed upon into a standard custody agreement template. Have it all ready, with your signature, reviewed by your L, and bring a copy to the CPC session. Then "all" she has to do is get her L to review it, because she's going to agree to everything, right? Maybe even set some due dates for "both" of you, in front of the CPC?

I mean, if your xW is still presenting as "reasonable and agreeable", then... maybe either this will "make" her agree in order to keep up her facade in front of the C, or she'll crack?

Hopefully some other members can chime in on ways to leverage your xW's "cooperation" in front of this audience.

[Panda39]

I just got the blank stare back and she said nothing. 

My partner gets this response from his uBPDxw when she is cornered by the truth and literally has no response. (It's a very rare occurrence - like seeing a Yeti   

In acknowledging your dislike of her parents due to their abuse of your ex you validated her experience...there is nothing to say.  You've agreed with her so there is nothing to argue about.  She will be caught lying if she starts saying what lovely people they are, she will be caught lying if she denies the abuse happened, she would be caught lying if she denied telling you about the abuse.  She's go nowhere to go with it, thus no comment.

Panda39

[GaGrl]

Why not take all items agreed upon in FOR and give up your lawyer to write up in legal format? Don't leave it up to her for her lawyer to review. At some point, it has to be formalized.

[40days_in_desert]

I have received admission from my ex several times but the impact has been watered down over the years due to her back and forth as to who was to blame for our failed marriage. She would say that everything was my fault then everything was her fault. Her blaming me versus blaming herself is about a 20:1 ratio. The times she said it was all her fault it was typically in a self-loathing way with nothing specific that she did wrong.

After a couple of years of this yo-yo effect, I began to wish that she didn't bring it up one way or another. Her self-loathing and taking "responsibility" usually came at times when she needed to be pulled out of a tough situation related to finances or her fighting with her bf.

So yeah, it can happen but take it for what it's worth. In my opinion it's worthless.

[ForeverDad]

@ForeverDad, are you saying that she still has baggage from our past relationship that she can't see past.  She has told me so many times how she's moved on and is happy with her new relationship.  She is very bitter towards me and I always wondered why, has anyone ever attempted to end their partners bitterness and apologize.

I separated and divorced over a decade ago.  Over the years she has consistently said she hates me.  Her perspective is that I used court to take our son away from her.  Yet she won't ever acknowledge that despite me now having full custody for the past 5-6 years, with basis, she still has kept more parenting time than I had when we were in the prolonged separation and divorce process.

The only time she's agreeable is when it is something she likes or wants.  Even then, if I talk too much she'll trigger on something and say I'm harassing her.

Beware of the hope that apologizing will work.  Likely you'll end up being told to keep apologizing for the same things.  Never "one and done".  Another risk to apologizing is that you might say it in a way that could put you at risk of legal consequences.  Rather than saying "I'm sorry for...", any apology ought to be phrased as  "I'm sorry you feel that way..." or "I'm sorry you see/remember it that way..."  The key insight is that courts won't punish you for how she feels or perceives things.