Co-parenting: Kids Said They Love Me More Than Mommy

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Apropos of nothing, D7 told me this as I was tucking her in.  I asked her why and she said that mommy yells at them for things and that I really don't. "Well, you don't really yell at us." Odd, because I do raise my voice a lot I think.  And I pissed her off this evening when I wouldn't let her watch TV after we got back from the park. She copped an attitude. I've learned not to react in kind when she does this.  "I'm not going to eat dinner unless you let me watch TV! I'm going to starve myself to death!" Yes, she still talks like that sometimes.  I walked away. Then I talked her into a turkey-ham sandwich and later she made herself a peanut butter sandwich.  She's a struggle with food but that's another story...

S9 was reading the the next room and I asked him.  He said the same thing giving the same reason. What I hear is "I feel safer with daddy."

I didn't say much, like "mommy has a temper, and she can get angry easily" which someone here pointed out was invalidating.

I'm not sure what I should have said, but I kissed, hugged, and cuddled her into sleep. I had the week off to watch them before they start school, though they spent two weeknights with their mom.  This coming week she gets them except for my two nights.  I hope their mom can hold it together.

[Turkish]

Apropos of nothing, D7 told me this as I was tucking her in.  I asked her why and she said that mommy yells at them for things and that I really don't. "Well, you don't really yell at us." Odd, because I do raise my voice a lot I think.  And I pissed her off this evening when I wouldn't let her watch TV after we got back from the park. She copped an attitude. I've learned not to react in kind when she does this.  "I'm not going to eat dinner unless you let me watch TV! I'm going to starve myself to death!" Yes, she still talks like that sometimes.  I walked away. Then I talked her into a turkey-ham sandwich and later she made herself a peanut butter sandwich.  She's a struggle with food but that's another story...

S9 was reading the the next room and I asked him.  He said the same thing giving the same reason. What I hear is "I feel safer with daddy."

I didn't say much, like "mommy has a temper, and she can get angry easily" which someone here pointed out was invalidating.

I'm not sure what I should have said, but I kissed, hugged, and cuddled her into sleep. I had the week off to watch them before they start school, though they spent two weeknights with their mom.  This coming week she gets them except for my two nights.  I hope their mom can hold it together.

[Notwendy]

I'm not sure what you should have said either. Our culture says that somehow this is wrong. Kids should love their mothers. But then we teach them to love someone who doesn't respect their boundaries and is possibly emotionally abusive. How is that helping them.

I think not saying anything about the mother is good. I'm not sure how to validate their feelings without triangulating. If being with their mother is an unsafe situation for them, then that's a legal concern. I think saying " I love you too" is OK to say.

Truth is, a parent-child relationship is influenced by how the parent treats them. This doesn't mean not disciplining them, it's how the parent interacts with them. A loving parent doesn't let them watch TV all the time and may even raise their voice sometimes but it's the consistent unconditional love that forms a bond with them. I don't know what is is like with their mother, but in my case, BPD mom's "love" was different- it was manipulative.

It is what is is. I loved my father, but don't feel the same bond with my BPD mother. This is something that is contrary to our culture but it is what it is. Sure, Dad lost his temper sometimes, but it was different. It wasn't irrational and unpredictable. He also took an interest in me as a person- knew what I was doing in school, what music I liked as a teen. He had rules, expected me to get good grades, but it was apparent that this was for my own benefit in the long run. I still felt secure with him as a kid. I didn't feel this with my BPD mother when I was a kid.

Rather than see this as something "wrong", maybe it's the natural consequences of the relationship over time. People think I'm horrible that I can't have a "normal" relationship with my mother, but I'm doing the best I can with this as an adult. I stay in contact with her, and do nice thing for her, but I see now as an adult, that her relationships are dysfunctional and this affects how she acted as a parent too.

Your kids may not love their mother in the same way they love you. But she's still their mother and they are children. Maybe you can focus on them behaving respectfully to her, while still respecting their own boundaries.

[formflier]

I think saying "I love you" or "I love you too"..would be appropriate.  Or just listening.

The tricky thing would be if they start asking you who you "love more" and why.  Likely best to assure them of your love and that's a big question.

Be very glad they feel open enough to chat...keep putting energy into that.

Best,

FF

[JNChell]

Turkish, I find this very touching. Maybe there is room for validation here. I’m sure that you felt validated by your children’s words and feelings. I imagine that some other feelings surfaced. Maybe your kiddos would feel validation if you told them “Thank you. I love you too. It feels good when we can share our feelings.”. Or something along those lines.

I’m pretty sure that you were the first person to point out validation to me upon coming here. I constantly look for reasons to properly validate my kiddo. Last weekend he pretty much made scrambled eggs by himself. I simply showed him what to do and he did it. I kissed him on the top of his head and told him I was proud of him. While we were eating I said that the eggs were really good. He agreed. I asked him who made them. He acknowledged and we fist bumped.

It’s pretty damn hard to field questions and comments from our kids about the other parent. The heartache of it all can surface. Your kids love you and they do feel safe with you. My Son frequently says that it’s quiet and relaxing here in his own words. Odd stuff from a 4 year old. Without going into detail, his mom’s place sounds pretty chaotic.

Your kiddos are telling you that they prefer the atmosphere that you create for them. A consistent pattern for them works. Dad will growl at times, and the pups will test us. What matters is what is relevant.

[livednlearned]

S9 was reading the the next room and I asked him.  He said the same thing giving the same reason. What I hear is "I feel safer with daddy."

What was the question you asked him?

[Turkish]

"Do you feel like your sister does?"

[Notwendy]

This is probably the best way a child can express feeling more secure with you than with their BPD mother. I think I'd just let it be- this is the way it is. If you become concerned about abuse, then it may be time to intervene with visits to her. As they get older, they may express their wishes more loudly. They may even not want to visit much at all.

These are their own boundaries "speaking". They sense that they are less comfortable with someone like their mother. As a mom, I wanted my kids to "trust their gut" with other people. If they feel uncomfortable around someone, that's important to know. Complicated when it is their own mother.

[MeandThee29]

These are their own boundaries "speaking". They sense that they are less comfortable withI someone like their mother. As a mom, I wanted my kids to "trust their gut" with other people. If they feel uncomfortable around someone, that's important to know. Complicated when it is their own mother.

Yes, I've wrestled with this as well. Even when they are older, it's an issue because ideally they should have a relationship with both parents, but legally they don't have to. Mine had their entire childhoods to work through when he left. He didn't really communicate with them for a year, and I had hints that their hearts were shattered. Only recently have they began to talk about their childhoods, but never anything involving him. We've talked a lot about healthy relationships and boundaries, as well as healthy forgiveness (i.e. letting go with boundaries). But I've never done anything to stop them from interacting or told them what to do. They don't talk about him with me.

[worriedStepmom]

My son made a habit of telling me he loved Daddy more than me when he was 6-9.  (Dad is not personality-disordered; S lives with me 60% of the time.)  Occasionally it would be the other way around.

Like you, I didn't show a lot of reaction. We (S and I) put in a lot of effort to identify his feelings more specifically and to learn the right vocabulary to express those feelings.   

That sentence has mostly disappeared (unless he's angry with me), and now he's specific - he likes that dad's house is less structured with fewer rules on video games.  He likes that dad has cats.  He likes hanging out with his stepbrothers.  He likes that dad does X;  he dislikes that I do Y, Z, and C.  (Recently he's also started telling me what he likes better about my house.  Thank goodness.)

The fact that your children feel safe telling you something like that - a sentence that would cause mom to flip out - is a wonderful thing.  You'll have a lot of opportunities to help them dig down into the root causes of why they'd say that, and to help them learn to identify and manage their own emotions, since mom won't be capable to doing that with them.

[zachira]

My hat is off to you creating the most loving stabilizing environment you can for your children when they have a mother with BPD. I am glad you often reach out to us. You do need support when you see/hear about your children being mistreated by their mother who often mistreats you as well, and you still have to keep yourself together enough to be there for your children. As you know from my previous posts, my mother with BPD just died and for the most part, it has been a tremendous relief. I feel safe for the first time in my life. My heart goes out to you knowing you have many years ahead of you of having to deal with the mother of your children and how her behaviors affect you and your children. My father was the loving parent and it made a big difference in my life. Your children really need you and you are doing a great job of being a loving father under the most difficult of circumstances. Can you give yourself a pat on the back?

[kells76]

Be very glad they feel open enough to chat...keep putting energy into that.

Maybe your kiddos would feel validation if you told them “Thank you. I love you too. It feels good when we can share our feelings.

Makes sense to me. When SD13 talks about pronouns, I try to always circle back at the end to "I'm just so glad you feel like you can talk about that with me" &/or "I really love listening to you talk about what's important to you". Both of which are true!

There's the content of the conversation, and then the structure of the conversation. If I get wrapped up in the content (which sometimes is about stuff where I'd be making a different choice or have different values), I can miss the bigger picture of the structure of the conversation -- how am I listening to the kids, they're being open with me, etc. Having a healthy structure seems pretty important, more so than getting bogged down in getting the exact details of the content right. In worriedStepmom's example, if she'd gotten wound up in "Why do you love your dad more than me? Give me specifics. That's not true that we do less fun stuff here, we just did A B and C" then she would have missed the bigger structure which was that her son felt safe sharing what was true about how he was feeling at the moment.

Anyway, like others here, I suspect "Because you don't yell" is the closest they can get at their ages to articulating that they feel safer with you. It's less about a literal quantification of who does and doesn't yell, but "yelling" as representative of something else that they can't quite put their fingers on.

Good job with the hugs and cuddling. I bet that meant a lot to your kids.  

[formflier]

The fact that your children feel safe telling you something like that - a sentence that would cause mom to flip out - is a wonderful thing.  

This is the big thing!

Solid work Turkish!

Best,

FF

[mart555]

Do not defend the mom or try to push the kids towards her.  I used to do that but it doesn't pay off in the end.  I'd tell them "maybe you should call your mom", or "maybe you should send her an email" but you know what, if the kids don't want to because they are afraid of her reaction well so be it.   I used to think that this could be seen as alienation but someone from the children's aid society told me "with the types of messages that the mother is sending the kids, she is doing the alienation herself". 

You should not have to justify the mother's behavior.   Don't say bad things about the mom, but respect what the kids say.   Maybe see if you can have a therapist discuss the mental illness aspect so it doesn't come back and bite you. 

[PeteWitsend]

My kids have put me in this position a couple times, with specific questions about why mom and her new BF fight, or use  bad words I don't use (at least around them...)

I just listen and try to reassure them about what I believe is right or wrong, and remind them that: 1) everyone has their own opinions, and 2) they can - and should -make up their own minds about what is right or wrong based on what they know and what they observe.

I gather from the way my oldest son corrected my youngest "Mama doesn't fight and scream, she just discusses things" that my BPDxw is aware of the potential for her behavior to come back to bite her, & is trying to influence them, which is really too bad since they're at such vulnerable young ages (6 & 4).

[Turkish]

S9 still says things about their step-dad, parroting what his mom said,  "he stole our food," "he smokes pot." With the latter thing, I told him that she shouldn't have told him that, as that was an adult thing between them.   Then there was that incident last summer when she Slammed his knee with Her coffee mug and left a small bruise.  I know he loves her, but i don't doubt that he remembers such things.

She has them all week, we'll see how it goes.  I'll get them just two nights.  They were happy to see her this morning. 

[waymbers]

I may not have much to add, other than I am so glad to have found this website. This serves as my first comment, rather public contribution on this site, and I just wanted to thank you, and if I could to everyone on this site, for sharing your experiences with everyone should they find themselves here.

I cant help but become extremely emotional after reading this posts and its replies. To look  back at the past 3-4 years of everything that has eventually led me to this website, reading this post, and its relevance of what I feel is soon to come just has me totally breaking down. As much as I expect to hear this from my son(4mos old) one day, it makes me so extremely, unexplainably sad and engulfed in sorrow.

Again, I am sorry that I havent any words of advice to contribute.. I just needed to say something before I burst from the inside out. Wrapping my head around everything that I have been through and where I am at in my life, in conjuctin with reading this post, has served to help me let out what I have held in for far to long. But thank you for sharing, sincerely. I am sure though you may not known of how to handle such a conversation with what you felt as an appropriate response, I feel you certainly took the most appropriate response that comes next, which is seeking the knowledge and wisdosm of others who may be able to help or enlighten... and i can positively say that sometimes that in itself (though your children man not realize it at present time. but they will know of it in due time) attests to the amount of true love and respect you hold for your kids. I wish you and yours all the best.

I must admit, I am having a difficult time looking foward to the coparenting experience with my X, who is undiagnosed, yet self admitted, but then gaslit me about it until i re read some old msgs where she had indeed told me so, only to tell me tha...

well, you guys get the point. Had i typed anymore I would have typed a Thesaurs' worth.

=====Reduce Harm, Stay Educated=====
... and on the first day, Man created god ...

[GaGrl]

Thanks for weighing in, warm here -- we are glad you found your way to us.

Why don't you start a thread about your primary co-parenting concerns and let us get to know your situation? There is a lot of help and support here.

[waymbers]

Thanks for weighing in, warm here -- we are glad you found your way to us.

Why don't you start a thread about your primary co-parenting concerns and let us get to know your situation? There is a lot of help and support here.

Lol that feels so incredibly surreal hearing somebody say that about my issues with my ex/newly coparent. I have not only been invalited to no avail in more recent times by her, but also being bothered/frustrated that nobody quite understands the legit abuse ive (i take responsibility for allowing this woman's talons to sink into me so deeply and not relieving myself of the grip) endured.

I do thank you all again from my post before, and you, GaGrl for the extra warm welcome. Still kind of shy about all of this though, and very surreal that me explaining my relationship (e.g. XTRA-non necessary bpd struggles) will not only be heard and commented on to help ease the pain, but more refreshingly, to be understood. I want to say that its so much to type, that our Admin's here bpdfamily will have to rent more server space :]     


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[SadtimesAZ]

Man I know that feeling. I want to share, monitor your d closely with those kinds of statements about death or dying. Me ex step d used to say things like that a lot and at 15 was in full blown SI mode. At this point 13 years of observing a dysfunctional MGM daughter grand daughter relationship narc/bpd grandma did a number on the family. My ex, her sister and my step d all threatened or attempted within 6 months of each other in 2017. The child ended up hospitalized 3 times and is already into drugs and alcohol and inappropriate relationships at 17 now. Mom is ill equipped to take care of her and sadly I think she is beyond help already. It's genetic and environmental and when the genetic produces a bad environment it sucks. My s11 has no interest in being with mom and has told everyone only for me to be accused of trying to alienate him and being a Disneyland dad. Even with him saying he sits around doing nothing most of the time with her. She won't admit that she has no interest in actually parenting her children to justify his statements. It's sad but you have to be very vigilant in watching your children's behavior with a pd ex. I'm sorry my friend I know how hard it is.