Help with a response

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Here is the set up:
I have a D15. She's a sophomore in HS. She gets straight As. She doesn't vape, drink, smoke weed, hook up with boys, sneak out of the house or, really, any of the things other teens her age do.

As you can imagine, uBPDxw is very controlling. She wants to know where D15 is at all times. Who she is with. Where she is going. If D15 makes a spontaneous plan, uBPDxw will say, "Why wasn't I informed of this? How long have you had this plan?" I'm sure you're aware of the "setting up in no win situations" and splitting. D15 and uBPDxw do not have a good relationship

uBPDxw sent me an e-mail and "schedule a time to sit down and come up with guidelines that will keep D15 safe" and "get my advice and perspective". This is less than two weeks ago she was screaming at me about how she doesn't trust me, she "can't stand me" and called me a jarhead (whatever that means). Demonization/idealization. Splitting.

Any ideas on a good response? I want to avoid the no-win situation I know is coming and have my voice heard.

[Breakingfree9]

Here is the set up:
I have a D15. She's a sophomore in HS. She gets straight As. She doesn't vape, drink, smoke weed, hook up with boys, sneak out of the house or, really, any of the things other teens her age do.

As you can imagine, uBPDxw is very controlling. She wants to know where D15 is at all times. Who she is with. Where she is going. If D15 makes a spontaneous plan, uBPDxw will say, "Why wasn't I informed of this? How long have you had this plan?" I'm sure you're aware of the "setting up in no win situations" and splitting. D15 and uBPDxw do not have a good relationship

uBPDxw sent me an e-mail and "schedule a time to sit down and come up with guidelines that will keep D15 safe" and "get my advice and perspective". This is less than two weeks ago she was screaming at me about how she doesn't trust me, she "can't stand me" and called me a jarhead (whatever that means). Demonization/idealization. Splitting.

Any ideas on a good response? I want to avoid the no-win situation I know is coming and have my voice heard.

[MeandThee29]

You may want to consider parallel parenting, where you agree that you each set the rules without interference for your daughter when she is with you.

I'm sure that this is rough on your daughter, but she needs some level of flexibility and freedom for her own development. You can provide that even if your ex doesn't.

Thankfully this is not forever. Before you know it, she will be 18.

[Breakingfree9]

Thank you. I appreciate your response. In my previous attempts to "parallel" guidelines when D15 is with me, I've received the response "I have a right to know where my daughter is and what she's doing at all times."

[Grady]

Can you just take it off you and have her add the Life360 app on D's phone?  That way she can see where she is and you can continue the parallel parenting.  I have the app for my kids so I can check on them when needed to make sure they got somewhere safely, etc. 

[Breakingfree9]

Her mom already does that.
I just use "Find My"

[ForeverDad]

There are times when reasoning doesn't work, especially so in our parenting situations.  Boundaries are hard to maintain, especially at first when resistance and extinction bursts are at their height.  I had to face that when I divorced my spouse.  She felt that any time 'her' son was not in my direct possession that she could swoop in and take over.  Knowing that, my divorce settlement included a clause that my parenting time was mine and hers was hers.  (If she was not so possessive or often neglected our son, then I would have set looser terms so I could step in as appropriate.)

She's demanding a meet to pressure you to agree to do what she wants, not to listen to you explain how responsible your daughter is and that your are monitoring her adequately.  Yes, you can and should state that but would she listen?

In your case, she's demanding you change your parenting patterns to match her terms, yet you see no problem.  Rather than appease or make a deal, you may have to be firm for what you believe is appropriate and adequate.  I think that position will demonstrate (validate) good parenting in your daughter's eyes.  After all, probably nothing you do will mollify her mother for very long before there's another demand.

[kells76]

uBPDxw sent me an e-mail and "schedule a time to sit down and come up with guidelines that will keep D15 safe" and "get my advice and perspective"

When DH's xW did this sort of thing, it usually ended up with her springing a surprise on DH and catching him off-guard. I wonder now if she, even subconsciously, would do this in order to "get her way" -- he'd be taken aback and have no time to ponder what she brought up.

I wonder if you can put some legwork back on your xW. She's framing it as "we have to meet (so I can talk)" or whatever. Two options come to mind, before getting drawn into "yes or no":

(1) Reply something like "Let's exchange itineraries/discussion topics beforehand, so we can be at our best in problemsolving".

(2) Reply something like "Great idea; I can meet with you and Therapist on Monday at 6 or Wednesday at 5. Which one works better for you?"

Option 1 starts to "call her bluff" to see how real she is about solving specific issues. You're not the bad guy saying "No way", you're just a helpful guy preparing to talk about specifics. If she has no specifics, this will be difficult.

Option 2 presents you as "helpful guy" as well. If she has a problem with meeting with a 3rd party to help with D, that's telling. Especially if your D is as "problematic" as xW says. In fact, if D is having that many problems, wouldn't your xW want MORE help for D?

Would be interesting to brainstorm more ways to put the work back on your xW. pwBPD are experts at positioning their work onto us.

[Panda39]

What if you just don't respond?  Choosing to do nothing can also be a "choice". 

Frankly unless your daughter is in some kind of danger or being neglected when she is with you (which she isn't) then you can just live the way you want when she is with you.  Be careful you don't walk into the FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt) .  It took my partner awhile to stop believing what his uBPDxw was selling...that he was a bad dad.  You do not have to do things your ex's way to be a good dad and you do not have to justify your parenting to her.

I am with kells76, in my experience parallel parenting is the way to go.  If your ex has issues with your daughter, let her talk to your daughter when she is with her (take yourself off the triangle).  You do what you do at your house and let mom deal with her house.  Your daughter will have reasonable expectations when she is with you (so at least part of the time).  You can also learn some skills to support your daughter (without badmouthing her mother).

Here is this board's "Lessons" https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=182254.msg1331288#msg1331288 there is a ton of good information in this link but Lesson 5 is particularly good in terms of supporting your daughter.

Hang in there,
Panda39

[worriedStepmom]

In my previous attempts to "parallel" guidelines when D15 is with me, I've received the response "I have a right to know where my daughter is and what she's doing at all times."

No, no she doesn't.

H's xW tried this when their daughter was 6.  She wanted H to text her multiple times a day to let her know what SD was doing.  She actually convinced SD that if mom didn't know where SD was at all times of the day, mom would go to jail.  (It took a long time to deprogram SD.)

H told ex that he was not going to play these games.  He was responsible when SD was at our home, and if ex did not trust his parenting, then she could file a CPS complaint and let the state decide if more oversight was needed.   That caused an abrupt halt to a lot of this.

If mom is just trying to triangulate you into how she parents on her time, then I might tell her "these are my household rules... , and they work great.  D15 is a terrific kid who has proven herself trustworthy when with me."  And then disengage.

[Breakingfree9]

Very helpful responses. Thank you very much.

[kells76]

What if you just don't respond?  Choosing to do nothing can also be a "choice".

Ooh, good idea.

Breakingfree9, I'll be interested in hearing how things go for you and your lovely D!

[Waddams]

This is going to end up with her demanding that you run by everything she does on your time by her before she does it. She's then going to try to start telling you what D15 can and can't do on your parenting time, and she's also going to start telling you what YOU can and can't do with D15 on your parenting time. All in the name of a mother keeping her daughter "safe".

I'd tell her there's no need to have sit down, you don't think there's anything wrong that requires this kind of discussion.

Less is more, at most tell her she in fact does not have the right to get all up your behind about what you do with or let D15 on your parenting time. She can see where she is via the phone tracker, that's what she gets. You don't owe her anything more, she doesn't get to lord over everything between you and D15 like that.

Then turn the phone off, and have D15 turn her's off, and wait out the extinction burst.

As for D15 on uBPDxw's parenting time, you can't control that. You can empathize with D15 and validate her that things can be difficult, and D15 is justified in feeling her frustrations, and when prompted/invited by D15, provide some coaching on ways to deal with it. But otherwise stay out of it as long as there's no immediate risks/dangers for D15 occurring.

[Breakingfree9]

Wow, Waddams, it's almost as if you've met her.
She already tells me what D15 can and can't do on my parenting time. She doesn't tell ME what I can and can't do. She did that early on, but knows it goes nowhere.

Her insistence now is in the "name of a mother keeping her daughter safe." She also, as I'm sure you can imagine, threatens to tell the other parents about what I'm doing. Which, at this point, is a weird threat since most of the other parents are beginning to see the abnormal behavior.

[livednlearned]

Any ideas on a good response?

How about ask her to put her guidelines in writing and you'll consider them when you receive a copy.

[kells76]

ask her to put her guidelines in writing and you'll consider them when you receive a copy.

Great idea from LnL. Again, the theme is "put HER work back on HER".

She may be (subconsciously, knowingly, doesn't necessarily matter) trying to make her feelings ("I feel anxious and I think I'll manage it by controlling D15") YOUR responsibilities. You can hand that right back.

Notice LnL suggested something like "and I'll consider them when I receive...", versus "and I'll meet with you when I receive..."

This is about learning to not make her feelings of "urgent do it now" YOUR feelings. She can feel like "we MUST meet". You don't have to buy into that -- like you said, you know how it'll probably go if you do a face to face:

the no-win situation I know is coming

[mart555]

I feel bad for SD15 in all of this.. just think of how controlling the mom must be when she is there!  Please give her some freedom when she's with you.  Still keep a control but let her grow up normally !

[Breakingfree9]

Yes, she even said in the e-mail "I'm so nervous about D15 growing up and her safety". She is trying to make her feelings my feelings. There's always been a great deal of projection (then, shaming when I reject the projection).