Conversations with BPD mother

[New2BPD19]

How do other members manage conversations with their BP parent when the BP is agitated and angry?  I am using mirroring but I am finding it hard to get a word in edgewise in some of the conversations.  The BP moves from subject to subject, manically, throwing a barrage of blame, insults, gaslighting (all their faulty "tools").  Its tough to manage the conversation with the appropriate tools when there is not an opportunity to utilize them. 

Secondly, how are non-BPs dealing with BP silent treatment?  I am currently not engaging until reengaged by the BP but that seems to have been ineffective in managing the repeat occurrences of the silent treatment. 

[zachira]

You have asked some really good questions about having conversations with a BPD mother when she is emotionally dysregulated. Every person with BPD is different in their own ways yet similar in enough ways that a BPD diagnosis seems to be a fit. I can answer some of your questions though not all, as I had some of the challenges you describe with my BPD mom, who is now deceased, though not all of them. I found trying to have a conversation with my mother with BPD next to impossible. It was all about what she was emotionally dsyregulated over in the moment, and she had no capacity for empathy. I learned that the conversations were always going to be a one way street and to cut them off when the converation became too hurtful for me to listen to, which you are doing though wondering if there might be some other ways to do it. My mother never gave me the silent treatment, and in fact was determined that none of her children would ever be separate people from her. There are many people on this site who have with mothers with BPD and they will be able to answer your questions about how to respond during periods when she gives you the silent treatment. We are here to listen and support you in any way we can.

[formflier]

I'll join zachira is saying you are asking very important questions.  I also want to assure you that we "get it".  We get how crazy these conversations can get.  Sometimes at the end you feel like you mind has been through a blender.

The answer to your question is..."it depends".

Depends on you that is...

If the dysregulation is bothering you/affecting you...then perhaps it's time to push pause and take a break.

If you are doing well, then I would suggest active listening and perhaps using "validating questions" (see link below)

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=273415.0

After you read that link, I'm interested in hearing your initial thoughts on "validating questions".

Best,

FF

[Methuen]

Oh this is so hard.

I'm at the beginning of my journey in learning how to interact and communicate with my BP mom.  
1) Exit.  In more recent episodes, I have just left the situation.  Once, I left the living area in my own house, went into the bedroom, closed the door, and left my raging mom with my husband and FIL (who has dementia).  After her rage was not getting a reaction from either of them, she left through the back door slamming it so hard the house shook.  The second time I exited a situation was at my mom's house, and I just walked out the front door, and closed it behind me.  Prior to this, I used to try and JADE - justify, defend, explain, or argue.  OK, that didn't work for 57 years, so now I'm trying something new (since I now understand the implications of BP).  The strange thing is that after my exits, there was a lot of strain and stress and biting words and other nasty stuff for quite a while, but then suddenly one day she is over it (whatever triggered her rage), and she interacts as if nothing ever happened and everything is perfect (until the next rage).
2) Validate.  Ok I haven't actually used this yet, but I'm all prepped with my validating statement (it's in my phone), and I practice it every day in my head, so that with her next rage, I'm ready with it and I don't simply "freeze and panic".  Since I haven't actually used it yet, I can't report on it's success, but I do understand that the validating statement doesn't work unless it's authentic and genuine in that moment.  I actually used some validating questions with my mom today (she was having a good day), and that went well.

I have only experienced the silent treatment a few times.  It is rare for my mom because she is just too needy (physically, cognitively, and emotionally).  The silent treatment is super tough for us non-BP's because we've probably been conditioned by our parents to feel responsible for them.  I did struggle with that, but honestly, I also tried to think of it as a holiday from her, because I know it's only a matter of time until her "neediness" outweighs her need to rage.  It was conflicting though.  Super tough.

   

[starbxsam]

New2BPD19, I can so relate to what you're going through and asking.

When my BP mother is agitated and angry, it's always best for me to walk away or hang up the phone. This is so hard to do! I find myself always wanting to defend myself and to fix what's wrong, but every time the conversation goes nowhere, and the discussion/argument gets worse. Sometimes she'll keep calling me, or send me really mean text messages. It's best to ignore them and not respond. It may be hard, but disengaging is key!

As for the silent treatment, this may sound really bad, but when my BP mother is not talking to me, it's so peaceful and I feel like I can actually breathe. I hate saying it and it sounds so wrong to say,  but for the time that she's not talking to me, I'm able to live my life in peace. Like Methuen said, it's only a matter of time until the neediness comes back. So take that time to focus on you. My BP mother will act like nothing even happened a day or two later. In the past when I've asked why she was so upset or if she wants to talk about it, she doesn't even remember what she was upset about.

[New2BPD19]

Thank you, everyone, for your replies so far.  They have been very helpful and validating for me. 

As for the silent treatment, this may sound really bad, but when my BP mother is not talking to me, it's so peaceful and I feel like I can actually breathe.

@starbxsam: This is especially true after a rage.  I have had many good, thoughtful, and deep conversations with her and I do yearn for those but I also yearn for the rage respite. 

Oh this is so hard.

I'm at the beginning of my journey in learning how to interact and communicate with my BP mom...  Prior to this, I used to try and JADE - justify, defend, explain, or argue. OK, that didn't work for 57 years, so now I'm trying something new (since I now understand the implications of BP). 

  

@Methuen:  Thank you very much for your kind words.  I am also on the beginning of my journey (two months) after experiencing a rage that could not be justified.  I had reached a point where the confusion evaporated and it became so clear to me that she was projecting her feelings on me.  More research and therapy helped confirm my initial thoughts.  I JADE'd for 20 years and it was a job unto itself. 

@formflier:  I read the post.  Thank you.  I have been trying to utilize validation to allow her to recognize that I understand her feelings and then mirroring to force her to deal with those feelings rather than project them onto me and cast out blame in heaping portions.  It is challenging to utilize those tools when there is a one-way conversation like @zachira mentioned.  I tend to lean towards the active listening angle and allow her to express herself, engaging where I can; however, that allows her to jump from subject to subject without resolving any of them - which I understand is a hallmark of the internal struggle with BPDers.  It ends with her whipping herself up into a frenzy which then leads to the silent treatments because blames me for the ineffective conversation.  I can see the cycle repeating itself and I am trying to see if there is a proverbial wrench I can stick in the wheel to stop it from happening again.  However, I do recognize that particular feeling may be my rescuer mentality creeping in. 

[TelHill]

How do other members manage conversations with their BP parent when the BP is agitated and angry?  I am using mirroring but I am finding it hard to get a word in edgewise in some of the conversations.  The BP moves from subject to subject, manically, throwing a barrage of blame, insults, gaslighting (all their faulty "tools").  Its tough to manage the conversation with the appropriate tools when there is not an opportunity to utilize them. 

Secondly, how are non-BPs dealing with BP silent treatment?  I am currently not engaging until reengaged by the BP but that seems to have been ineffective in managing the repeat occurrences of the silent treatment. 

Welcome New2BPD19! 

You’ve gotten some great answers. I’m chiming in because my mom has BPD and does the silent treatment to me sometimes when she disregulates.  If she has someone to talk to, it can last 2 days. If not, it’s a few hours. 

I follow the validation questions listed on the link above when she starts speaking to me. She won’t answer otherwise.

When mom’s acting out, I have found changing the subject to a safe neutral area such as the weather, complimenting her clothing, describing cute stuffed animals I’ve seen (we both have a soft spot for these), talking about the Smurfs/Peanuts cartoons (I like them too) etc., helps.  I also leave the house if she’s not calm & nothing works. There is also low contact and no contact for a period of time or for the rest of the bpd’s parent’s life.

I play the scapegoat role in the family. In today’s US culture, it would be weird that I’m split black. I’ve been responsible and hardworking since my grammar school days. But many scapegoats are that for many reasons to keep the family together and appearing stable to the outside - with an mentally unstable parent.

Please post when you need to. You are definitely not the only one in this situation.

[DesertRose77]

It is so wonderful and validating to finally have a diagnosis for my mother AND a community to turn to! 

I am also beginning my journey, having self-diagnosed my mother after my therapist suggested reading Stop Walking on Eggshells last week. I haven't been able to put it down, it's like reading about my own childhood and now adult life! I have the workbook ordered, and am excited to start that.

My BPD mother, because of poor decisions and strings of dysfunctional relationships, has been living in my basement for 3.5 years. This makes these conversations SO DIFFICULT. We both feel trapped when there needs to be separation (and yes, I believe there are times separation is needed). Again, I'm just starting this journey but wanted you to know YOU ARE NOT ALONE. Many conversations with my mom go exactly as you describe. I can't even apply the tools I'm learning because she cuts me off, goes into a rage and threatens suicide in a veiled way.

Read the validating questions, I've used them a small amount but they really are helpful. Keep setting your boundaries, and do not feel guilty for her choices. Much love and support to you!

[alphabeta]

Hi New2BPD19,

Your questions are good ones, because I never seemed to know how to deal with my uBPD mother when she was angry. 

I would mirror her at times, and she would think that I was mocking her - this led to yet another barrage of insults.  I would validate her, yet, ultimately could not sustain doing so, because she could spend hours and hours hurling insults at me (or my wife).  At the end of our period when we had contact, I would end up leaving the conversation.  This had the consequence of her telling me that I would never see her again after which she would call me and say that she was dying or that she was going to kill herself.

Perhaps the best success I had in dealing with her would be to interrupt the conversation for a limited period of time (like, do some repairs around her house or go run an errand).  This brief period apart occasionally caused her to calm down.  However, she never really recognized what had happened prior to when she had calmed down, and I eventually gave up on the relationship.

I'm not sure when I will have the desire to see her again and will need time to heal from my wounds.

I wish you the best in your journey in relating to your mother.

[GaGrl]

My mom is not BPD but has trouble handling her anger and will do a silent treatment. She is 93 and lives with us, so my husband and I had to decide what to do when she kicks into ST.

We do nothing different. We talk to each other, we cook dinner, we ask Mom what she wants for dinner, etc. -- and if we get a monosyllabic or "I don't care", we act accordingly (she gets what we put on her plate). After almost a year of living together since I retired, it has happened several times, and I think she has learned that we expect her to work out of her snit by herself.

[formflier]

  we expect her to work out of her snit by herself.

Massively important!

Another way of looking at this is "not giving a snit any attention whatsoever".

Best,

FF

[GaGrl]

Massively important!

Another way of looking at this is "not giving a snit any attention whatsoever".

Best,

FF

It works!

It takes not being responsible for someone else's emotions. Uncomfortable as it was, I had to let her sit with her own reactions. Now, if I'm at fault, I will readily apologize. But if Mom goes into a snit because we didn't take one of her suggestions, because she feels "rejected" (personally, apart from the rejected idea) and "useless" (not contributing to the household), then those are her emotions that she needs to own. I find the SET tool the most useful -- it has helped to validate the valid and keep her from going into a full-blown ST. And this is a 93 year old woman, not a pwBPD. The tools works in many situations with people who have sensitive feelings.

[TelHill]

It works!

It takes not being responsible for someone else's emotions. Uncomfortable as it was, I had to let her sit with her own reactions. Now, if I'm at fault, I will readily apologize. But if Mom goes into a snit because we didn't take one of her suggestions, because she feels "rejected" (personally, apart from the rejected idea) and "useless" (not contributing to the household), then those are her emotions that she needs to own. I find the SET tool the most useful -- it has helped to validate the valid and keep her from going into a full-blown ST. And this is a 93 year old woman, not a pwBPD. The tools works in many situations with people who have sensitive feelings.

It’s a welcome break for me. The challenges lie between the periods of silence.

[formflier]

The challenges lie between the periods of silence.

Such as?  I bet we can give you a  nudge in a better direction if you can share some?

Best,

FF